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Will England never learn or are they just arrogant

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Halliford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2021 at 16:35
The commentators that I heard covered that. It is not legal to jump a tackle in open play but it is legal in the act of scoring a try.

If the defender had made contact legally, as a tackle, then the try would still have stood if he had been tipped up. If the defender had made a no-arms tackle, the try would stand but the tackler may have gone to the sin bin.

That's my interpretation!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2021 at 18:34
Nigel Owens entered the debate onTwitter and said no try penalty to Italy as he jumped up then forward preventing an attempt to tackle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2021 at 22:43
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Nigel Owens entered the debate onTwitter and said no try penalty to Italy as he jumped up then forward preventing an attempt to tackle


He would, the last few years have shown his matches are all about him - I thought the good maxim was that a referee should not become the centre of attention.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 08:37
The more annoying clip is the last moment in the Sco v Wales game were it wasn’t a Scottish knock on but the ball was hit backwards(deliberately?) by the Welsh defender and Stuart Hogg was tackled off the ball but no review which would have resulted in a choice of penalties and possibly double yellow for a last attack. O( the marvel of hindsight and videos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 09:14
Why a “double” yellow?
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Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 14:41
One for deliberate knocking the ball and one for tackling the man going to pick the ball up, could even be justification for penalty try
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 14:52
I maybe incorrect but (a) there is nothing illegal in knocking the ball back towards your own goal line and (b) there would be a YC for the first offence not one for each
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 15:13
I'm guessing that Rabbie's suggesting hands in the ruck, who could possibly be a yellow card in the circumstances, but a penalty try from an incident on or around the 22 with the Welsh defending at the ruck is a bit far-fetched.

I have seen a ref give two yellows from the same phase of play when we played London Scottish at ODP about five years ago - one for a high tackle and then for a deliberate knock-on when he was playing advantage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 15:45
Wow I bet the assessor and the referee had a long discussion on that one....wouldn’t the first yellow have been foul play which is unusual to have advantage played from.....were the YCs against the away team 😉

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 16:52
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Nigel Owens entered the debate onTwitter and said no try penalty to Italy as he jumped up then forward preventing an attempt to tackle


He would, the last few years have shown his matches are all about him - I thought the good maxim was that a referee should not become the centre of attention.

TBH I found the comments helpful - I don't recall a debate about the legality of the score at the time hence my  question.

I have no axe to grind with Nigel O but I found the view of an experienced ref helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 17:14
I didn’t see it at all during the game it was only on a tweet yesterday so asi say video hindsight, there is a grey area I believe if you knock  the ball deliberately backwards that prevents a completed pass. This can be deemed as contravening the spirit of the game or ungentlemanly conduct to us old farts hence YC. I think that if Hogg hadn’t been taken out he had a clear run to the line assuming he picked it up of course
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 18:11
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

I didn’t see it at all during the game it was only on a tweet yesterday so asi say video hindsight, there is a grey area I believe if you knock  the ball deliberately backwards that prevents a completed pass. This can be deemed as contravening the spirit of the game or ungentlemanly conduct to us old farts hence YC. I think that if Hogg hadn’t been taken out he had a clear run to the line assuming he picked it up of course


There is absolutely nothing wrong with knocking a ball backwards, either deliberately or not.

Hogg being taken out would have been a different matter - but highly unlikely to be a penalty try - as by your own admission he would have to pick the ball up cleanly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 19:38
Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 19:39
Mmm not so sure you are correct there Rabbie..but I’m not a referee so will listen to those more knowledgable of the laws than I
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2021 at 08:27
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

I didn’t see it at all during the game it was only on a tweet yesterday so asi say video hindsight, there is a grey area I believe if you knock  the ball deliberately backwards that prevents a completed pass. This can be deemed as contravening the spirit of the game or ungentlemanly conduct to us old farts hence YC. I think that if Hogg hadn’t been taken out he had a clear run to the line assuming he picked it up of course
I didn't see it but someone on Twitter (who was completely unbiased and hadn't been drinking) said that we should have had a penalty try and there should have been two yellow cards and that's why we lost. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2021 at 10:02
https://twitter.com/stuartmdarling/status/1360922729327828992?s=21
Hopefully this will give you the video, I did say I had seen the video
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2021 at 10:50
Thanks for the link.
Definitely no YCs, possibly a penalty to Scotland but on a slow motion review (as the TMO would do not me) could say that the W tackler was committed....and therefore decision on field was correct....but as I said previously I’m not a referee so it could well have been given as a penalty.
Understandable why it wasn’t given at the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2021 at 13:46
Originally posted by Welshie7 Welshie7 wrote:

Thanks for the link.
Definitely no YCs, possibly a penalty to Scotland but on a slow motion review (as the TMO would do not me) could say that the W tackler was committed....and therefore decision on field was correct....but as I said previously I’m not a referee so it could well have been given as a penalty.
Understandable why it wasn’t given at the time.

If you are referring to Liam Williams then he did intercept van der Merwe's offload, deflecting the ball with his left hand back towards Rees-Zammit, and tackled Hogg before was able to contest for the ball.

I believe Williams was fortunate not to get penalised for tackling Hogg, but Scotland should not have blown a 17-3 lead.  It was a great match and entertaining to the very finish.  ClapClapClap


Edited by Steve@Mose - 17 Feb 2021 at 13:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2021 at 15:12
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Nigel Owens entered the debate onTwitter and said no try penalty to Italy as he jumped up then forward preventing an attempt to tackle


He would, the last few years have shown his matches are all about him - I thought the good maxim was that a referee should not become the centre of attention.

TBH I found the comments helpful - I don't recall a debate about the legality of the score at the time hence my  question.

I have no axe to grind with Nigel O but I found the view of an experienced ref helpful.

Ditto.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 10:43
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

https://twitter.com/stuartmdarling/status/1360922729327828992?s=21
Hopefully this will give you the video, I did say I had seen the video
Just watched that, thanks. There's only one potential offence - Williams knocking the ball backwards is legal and therefore never a yellow card. Also he can't be given two yellows, so Wales would never have been down to 13 men. You might have a case for a tackle without the ball but I can see how the ref thought it was a knock-on, and as far as I'm aware,  once he blows the final whistle there's no going back.


Edited by Mark W-J - 18 Feb 2021 at 10:47
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