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Is kicking too easy?

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Halliford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is kicking too easy?
    Posted: 26 Nov 2020 at 07:14
Richard, the width approach doesn’t allow for the line speed of the defenders as they close down the attackers. You cannot pass the ball across the pitch quickly enough for it to stop the last defender closing down the last receiver. In order to penetrate a defence something has to change - the speed of the runner, the direction of the runner or the point of attack. Even then it often requires an error by the defence or the creation of a mismatch for an attack to penetrate. When I coached I used a lot of ideas from American Football. One was the simple approach - an offensive unit sets out its structure but so does the defensive unit. Sometimes what the defence does cancels out the offence so the quarterback has to go to a back-up play. That happens increasingly now in top-level rugby, particularly with England.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 20:39
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

To move the ball into space rather than take contact requires the space to be there. It is difficult to create space against a well-organised defence, look at Ireland last weekend, the only space they created was through the chip ahead for Ringrose's try. If a well-organised defence takes away the space then the attacking team are left only with the option of taking contact or kicking, on both occasions hoping for a defensive error. Referees need to be really strict on offside lines, keeping players back, particularly from scrums when the tight location of 16 players should lead to more space being available.

There is plenty of space - 15* men can't and don't occupy a full pitch.  Good players will find the space - whether by running into it, passing into it or kicking in it.  I see it all the time - both live and on TV how the players - at all level bunch into space and don't have the vision to look beyond the immediate ball carry or contact. 

When a team defends against a pick and drive by committing a full pack - then the space lays out on the outside, but rarely will the ball travel this far - it will be taking back into contact (yawn!), kicked aimlessly away (snore) or the referee will blow up (now asleep). 

*15 as a defensive line to beat.  Take a the width of a pitch to be 68m min, divide by the 15 players strung out across this gives you a gap of approx 4 metres per player.  In reality it be wider because the players will drift across to cover, narrowing on oneside creating space on the other. This is where the vision and skill to exploit those gaps isn't happening.
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Halliford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 19:08
Yes, but we are playing the same way all the time and that’s what matters!😂😂
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 16:13
What lose?LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 15:34
Point taken Marigold, however as a coach I would prefer my team to play the same way all the time, as the All Blacks do, than changing the game to suit the opposition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 14:58
Halliford you make good points. My frustration is that when England have by kicking gained field position and are in the opposition 22 they still insist on kicking the ball away instead of creating pressure and scoring tries. They have scored some good tries from kicks but they have also wasted a far higher number of chances to score as seen in all of the last 3 internationals they have played against inferior opposition
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 12:45
To move the ball into space rather than take contact requires the space to be there. It is difficult to create space against a well-organised defence, look at Ireland last weekend, the only space they created was through the chip ahead for Ringrose's try. If a well-organised defence takes away the space then the attacking team are left only with the option of taking contact or kicking, on both occasions hoping for a defensive error. Referees need to be really strict on offside lines, keeping players back, particularly from scrums when the tight location of 16 players should lead to more space being available.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 12:33
Richard - I think that is the most important part, less replacements so players have to lighter and fitter, and ball need to be in play longer!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneagainstthehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 21:11
Dive passes? Mark with heel dug in? It’ll be three point tries and toe punt conversion before we know it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 20:33
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

Maybe "the mark' should be allowed anywhere in your own half to try and put a stop to games turning into a procession of box kicks 

No! Have marks return to the player being still with a boot in the ground.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 20:31
There's many elements of the game which make it boring to watch - and probably for some to play. 

The pick and go and the constant need to go back into contact rather than move the ball into space frustrates the living daylights out of me. As my late father used to say, "They are dodgems not bumper cars" meaning the aim was to avoid contact not look for it. 

Kicks if they have a purpose are fine, but most box kicks happen because the scrum half doesn't look for other options. 

When was the last time a scrum half dived pass? 

Would a heavier ball eliminate kicking?

Would the reduction of replacements see the game improve as more players would have to play for the full 80 and those who tire quicker would create gaps for teams and hoepfully stop the amount of kicks. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 19:28
Originally posted by Puli. Puli. wrote:

Raider999 .... at the weekend it was a case of not on the line but well over it. Minor point I know compared with some other problems but the laws are there to be adhered to. 


Didn't spot that - but the TJ should have otherwise is there any point in him being there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Puli. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 20:10
Raider999 .... at the weekend it was a case of not on the line but well over it. Minor point I know compared with some other problems but the laws are there to be adhered to. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 14:49
Originally posted by Puli. Puli. wrote:

Assistant Refs appear to ignore this law as well ........ 

<ul ="froala-ul" style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 1rem; margin-top: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-left: 30px; caret-color: rgb50, 50, 54; color: rgb50, 50, 54; font-family: Uni-Neue-Regular, " Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 17px; letter-spacing: 0.09995999932289124px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba0, 0, 0, 0; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><li style="-sizing: border-; list-style-: disc;">The player throwing in the ball stands on the mark of touch with both feet outside the field of play. The thrower must not step into the field of play until the ball has been thrown


I know what you mean, however on the line is outside the field of play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guinness John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 14:43
Absolutely agree, waiting for 1, no two, even 3 to join on, it should be stopped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 14:18
Totally agree with:

No to Catepillar

Calling Mark anywhere in your own half

And use the early eighties Gilbert Match

I find the sneaking forward from the mark reprehensible, players always in front of the kicker at restarts. No kicking tees, or if so very small as with the elevation the ball makes it is very easy to kick goals. Particularly as this encourages cheating at the scrum to win penalties to kick at goal. How many games are won by technical (dubious) penalties rather than brilliant open rugby?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 13:23
Four points for a drop goal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Puli. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 11:03
Assistant Refs appear to ignore this law as well ........ 

  • The player throwing in the ball stands on the mark of touch with both feet outside the field of play. The thrower must not step into the field of play until the ball has been thrown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 10:43
Nigel Owens , last season called the ball out as soon as the No 9 touched the ball with his hand this would speed up the play and give the opposition time to break to charge down the kick. I have not seen that this season. I also think that the length of the Ruck needs to be looked at may be that a player is only in the rugby if he is bound onto more than one player that would shorten the ruck. However I think that there is an issue of the back foot especially with the mid field that seem to be off side at most rucks. It would be an interesting exercise if the TV would put the offside line on the screen as they do with the gain line and that would at least highlight the issue. I suppose it is the assistant ref who calls it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 22:23
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

Maybe "the mark' should be allowed anywhere in your own half to try and put a stop to games turning into a procession of box kicks 

Good idea, bringing it back like it used to be 50 years ago. Might even be able to bring back the obsolete "goal from mark" as a scoring method.
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