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Bedford - Northampton

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WEvans View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 17:32
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.
With Saints behind them Blues will surely be top 4 and a winning side at GR will pack them in and ensure a great atmosphere. For the purists I suspect there will be cracking club rugby nearby at Amps. I hope to see both but can the Saints imports wear their club socks please? Winning rugby must be really important I guess.

Don't worry you will be able to tell the Saints imports as they will be the only ones able to afford to wear socks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 13:37
Originally posted by Bedfordian Bedfordian wrote:

Just catching up, a lot of bitterness!! 

I don't think I've watched a game in recent years without both sides having premiership players in their side, who were loaned, lent or whatever the excuse was.

Most clubs have informal arrangements where players come and go and there is no consistency, all Bedford have done is formalise it.........

What makes me smile is that the "Bedford" fans who have voted with their feet where never happy anyway and spent most of time moaning even when we did well!

I will be there, look forward to it, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would be too concerned with final table position, we'll be glad to be there at all and will welcome everyone to our ground!

Bedford have a level of support that most clubs would love to achieve. It's a proper rugby club and the match day atmosphere at Goldington Road is brilliant. Pirates always have ding-dong battles with The Blues and the games are always a highlight of the season. Really looking forward to our next visit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bedfordian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 12:12
Just catching up, a lot of bitterness!! 

I don't think I've watched a game in recent years without both sides having premiership players in their side, who were loaned, lent or whatever the excuse was.

Most clubs have informal arrangements where players come and go and there is no consistency, all Bedford have done is formalise it.........

What makes me smile is that the "Bedford" fans who have voted with their feet where never happy anyway and spent most of time moaning even when we did well!

I will be there, look forward to it, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would be too concerned with final table position, we'll be glad to be there at all and will welcome everyone to our ground!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave the Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 09:53
Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:



I will be there, vote has been cast. Thanks for asking. 

That great news Dan, sorry for any misunderstanding on my part!Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bluesman11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 20:33
Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

The players Blues have retained are all quality players and 1st choice, but also we have lost some decent players, both wingers. With only about 10-12 confirmed players (a third of a squad) until we know who else is coming from saints and signings it is just a waiting game! 

We have lots squad/utility players so I expect to see a real mixture from Saints with a he inexperienced growing through the season when required.


Hope it goes ok for you the worry I would have is if Saints are sending certain players will they then be expected to play and if so what happens to your good players if they are in the same position.

Chris Boyd was clear that the saints players have to earn the right to start. His view is if they are good enough to be considered future saints players, then they should be able to force themselves into our lineup and if they can’t get into our team then they probably aren’t ready for the step up. I would say about 7 of our current retained players are nailed on starters. Whoever saints give us, they’re not going to displace Rich Lane from full back for example. Not sure if this type of thing will be factored into the players we receive.

Personally, for the reasons mentioned above I don’t expect us to be challenging towards the top of the table. Given our access to them, these are likely to be very fringe saints players. Some of these will no doubt be useful players, but some of them will probably turn out to not be high end championship players yet. I’m hoping we have Connor Tupai who would likely be our regular 9 and make a big impact, but I think we’d only get a player of his quality due to his personal links with the club (he is a fan after all).

Make no mistake though, this deal has not been made with the aim of pushing for a high league position. It’s been made to secure our financial health for the next 3 years whilst the pandemic/funding/league structure is in flux and, hopefully, to secure still being in the 2nd tier of English rugby at the end of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan Gleebles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 16:33
Originally posted by Dave the Dog Dave the Dog wrote:

Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.

Dan - I'm not sure you can be a supporter of a club without supporting the club.  Unless by voting with your feet you mean walking down to Goldington Road when rugby resumes.

McGee - I'm assuming you're using "like many others" in the same way that Trump does - i.e. just him or him and his yes men.  I've not noticed a significant drop off in support over the years.

SmileWink
I will be there, vote has been cast. Thanks for asking. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 16:25
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

The players Blues have retained are all quality players and 1st choice, but also we have lost some decent players, both wingers. With only about 10-12 confirmed players (a third of a squad) until we know who else is coming from saints and signings it is just a waiting game! 

We have lots squad/utility players so I expect to see a real mixture from Saints with a he inexperienced growing through the season when required.


Hope it goes ok for you the worry I would have is if Saints are sending certain players will they then be expected to play and if so what happens to your good players if they are in the same position.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 15:44
The players Blues have retained are all quality players and 1st choice, but also we have lost some decent players, both wingers. With only about 10-12 confirmed players (a third of a squad) until we know who else is coming from saints and signings it is just a waiting game! 

We have lost squad/utility players so I expect to see a real mixture from Saints with inexperienced growing through the season when required.


Edited by The Blues - 23 Jul 2020 at 23:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 13:46
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.
With Saints behind them Blues will surely be top 4 and a winning side at GR will pack them in and ensure a great atmosphere. For the purists I suspect there will be cracking club rugby nearby at Amps. I hope to see both but can the Saints imports wear their club socks please? Winning rugby must be really important I guess.

Wishing no ill will on Bedford - the Top 4 will depend on the quality of the squad they retain (tbh - I do not know how good those who are remaining are - likelihood are some are good some aren't and probably squad players), and the quality of the players that are "signed" to them by Northampton and how good they are - considering they are unlikely to be top 3 choices in the Northampton squad based on the reasons stipulated in said agreement mentioned by their Chairman you would have to wonder what abilities they will bring to Bedford that Bedford couldn't do prior to this other than assisting with the purse strings. If Northampton has a great squad in depth then yes Bedford have every chance of being high up the table, conversely, if they don't well .....?

What I do agree with is that Bedford is very much likely to be around in 3 years time - which can only be good news for them and their supporters. 
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave the Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 13:19
Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.

Dan - I'm not sure you can be a supporter of a club without supporting the club.  Unless by voting with your feet you mean walking down to Goldington Road when rugby resumes.

McGee - I'm assuming you're using "like many others" in the same way that Trump does - i.e. just him or him and his yes men.  I've not noticed a significant drop off in support over the years.

SmileWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 10:58
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 


Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.
With Saints behind them Blues will surely be top 4 and a winning side at GR will pack them in and ensure a great atmosphere. For the purists I suspect there will be cracking club rugby nearby at Amps. I hope to see both but can the Saints imports wear their club socks please? Winning rugby must be really important I guess.


I think it is financial survival that is at the top of the agenda, rather than winning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2020 at 19:59
Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.
With Saints behind them Blues will surely be top 4 and a winning side at GR will pack them in and ensure a great atmosphere. For the purists I suspect there will be cracking club rugby nearby at Amps. I hope to see both but can the Saints imports wear their club socks please? Winning rugby must be really important I guess.

Edited by corporalcarrot - 22 Jul 2020 at 20:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McGee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2020 at 14:14
Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan Gleebles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 18:05
As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TAS63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 16:13
"Merger" is used, as is the 3 year term. A 3 page heads of argument document is referred to as well. Hardly a detailed document then. I am taking this is the initial areas to look at to see what works - given how and when it's been drawn up it's difficult to see it as much more than that for now.

I think the more important point is that it will secure rugby at Goldington Road for the next few years. Whereas with a 50% RFU funding cut (and how many of think that will be the end of it? The implication made was that if the RFU doesn't get income from Autumn International games that this could drop to zero for the 20/21 season) and a loss of 4 or 5 (my memory fades) home games this season, and the start of next not being until 2021 (at the earliest) that must have been in doubt over the last few months. 

A further point in the podcast was that the Championship will not look anything like the same in 3 or so years time. And those who have seen the front page of today's Rugby Paper (referring to Edward Griffiths 76 page report) will have some indication of what they might be. 

So lot's of changes likely. The security of a 3 year deal with Saints through this time looks hugely attractive to me. 

Towards the end of this period then let's have another look at it and mark it as a success or failure at that point. But doing the same things and expecting the same old outcomes would look a worse decision in my book.


Edited by TAS63 - 19 Jul 2020 at 16:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 15:49
Originally posted by Rugbyfan Rugbyfan wrote:

Listening to Geoff on his podcast it sounds like we have a three year deal with Northampton that he said is a merger. We will have a squad of approximately fifteen players the rest of the squad will be made up of Northampton  players. Not sure if I like it at all .
 .

I've not listened to the podcast but the use of the word merger would suggest two becoming one.  That is obviously not the case here as both clubs are remaining separate entities. It appears just to be a loan deal. 


Edited by Richard Lowther - 19 Jul 2020 at 15:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 14:05
As a Blues fan, not knowing how much funding we will get and Geoff Irvine thinking capacity could be halved to start off with, helping to keep the club alive is a good thing. We have been doing this since 2003 as well so the club knows how to manage the partnership.

Also to those that say that there could be a loss of identity, Bedford School provide many academy players to Northampton and even the Blues did previously to Saints, so some of these “Northampton” players will actually be playing at their hometown club.

I see this as a insurance policy to make sure the best supported club (and profitable) in the division (excl. Club 13) survive in these uncertain times. This actually helps supply a little extra financial support to other clubs in the division from the travelling fans. A winning Blues team (hopefully) is good for the division as the travelling support increases.


Edited by The Blues - 19 Jul 2020 at 14:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bluesman11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 12:58
Unlike with DRs, this is a more formal arrangement with a tightly worded contract. One of the key things Geoff Irvine was keen to point out is that the players are named in the contract and it stipulates where there is a fixture clash with an A league/cup game, Bedford have priority with their selection and the only scenario they are allowed to be called up to Saints is if they are in the squad for a league/European game. This is different to other arrangements we have had. 

I would also say our squad will be slightly higher than 15. We’ve got 10 signed, 6 players due to re-sign and about 5 or so new signings we’re hoping to make so squad will be a touch over 20 probably. We’re not offering any contracts until we have a start date and confirmation of funding levels so we can set a budget. Again, confused how other clubs have been able to set budgets with absolutely no idea of what/when their income will be. It’s an odd way of running a business.

I’m not overly happy with the situation, but also appreciate there isn’t much else we could’ve done. I’d rather this than drop down a league and to suggest a club that attracts over 2500 through the gates every week should have to drop down a league so clubs with with a sugar daddy and under 1000 rattling around can play in the Champ doesn’t seem very beneficial to the league. I’m hoping situation is temporary. If all clubs in this league wanted to balance their books, they’d all have to be making similar arrangements. What the deal does mean is that I’m confident Bedford will still exist in 3 years time when all of this has settled down and I would bet money that at least 1 championship club will not survive the same period unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moseley Mauler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 12:43
But hasn't he said it is a "merger". Doesn't that make it different?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 12:21
Originally posted by Moseley Mauler Moseley Mauler wrote:

If I were a Bedford man I would not be happy with that.  Rather play a couple of levels lower
I am a Bedford man and I am happy with that and would not want to play a couple of leagues lower.
Of course I would prefer to have full financial independence and total control over the direction in which the club wants to travel. Sadly the current, and unfolding, uncertainty of Championship League rugby makes this liaison (or merger) all the more sensible in order to give the club and its supporters something on which to go forward.
At this level the days of clubs playing exclusively with home-grown, local lads is long gone and we all ship in players from anywhere and everywhere to put a competitive squad together. The fact remains that Bedford and Northampton are both East Midlands clubs with a long history of players representing both teams.
Bedford in recent years have been labelled as Leicester, Saints and Saracens second XV, no different to the arrangements other Championship clubs have had with their local Premiership sides. The only difference I can see with this arrangement is that it has been more publicly discussed.

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