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Re: Stadium For Cornwall Latest

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Stalwart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Re: Stadium For Cornwall Latest
    Posted: Yesterday at 09:38
Great post Brizzer - rest assured that passion is still alive and well. Going to rugby and supporting your club or the Duchy team is one of the rare occasions where we can get together and celebrate our "Cornishness." You are right, we are a bit nuts, but we are also definitely not English and getting behind our team, and having a proper old sing song after the game is one way we can show that. 
20,000 Cornishmen will know the reason why!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stadium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 08:44
Thank you Brizzer for the positive support. You will always be very welcome to Cornwall and the new Stadium.

Edited by stadium - Yesterday at 08:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 08:16
I don’t know about the ‘Exeter model’ or the ‘Leicester model’ et al, all that I know is that the Cornish are nuts for their rugby (or just nuts in general).
I will never forget coming back from a long weekend with a load of mates from Newquay and changing at Par to get the 125 back to London, only to find the whole train literally rammed with Cornish rugby fans on their way to Twickenham for the county championship final. That was only 1 train of many and there were thousands and thousands of them. Now, I know that this was in about 1990, but that sort of passion just does not die out.
IMHO the S4C will be a huge success and good luck to them. Can’t wait to see it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlangentThrowback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 16:59
Actually HMRC did catch them out on a relatively small amount of sponsorship money.  I'm not sure that supplying IT and media services come under the same regime but, at the very least, I bet Exeter gets a very good deal from the main sponsor.  Which is just one reason why I think Exeter are a difficult template for success.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Joy of (Level) 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 13:24
Originally posted by Albert Fishwick Albert Fishwick wrote:

Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

? I hadn't realised before just how much infrastructure SW Comms provide to Exeter and I suspect that isn't on normal commercial terms.


Let's hope that isn't the case; HMRC take a dim view of any such arrangements these days.


I think both parties receive adequate professional advice and act accordingly.

In any regard, I suspect HMRC would have no idea how much a “sponsorship package” was worth to the sponsor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 13:03
Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

? I hadn't realised before just how much infrastructure SW Comms provide to Exeter and I suspect that isn't on normal commercial terms.


Let's hope that isn't the case; HMRC take a dim view of any such arrangements these days.
That's easy for you to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dotcom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 12:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 11:12
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

I'd like to "buy a brick" or something similar to support the project is there an initiative of that kind ongoing? 
 
Ditto - I signed up online with Pirates to do so about a year ago, but I'm not finding the link via google at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knightandday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 11:09
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

I'd like to "buy a brick" or something similar to support the project is there an initiative of that kind ongoing? 


I have several bricks for sale. You’ll have to pay the postage though.
Winning isn't everything, it just makes the beer taste better
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 10:54
I'd like to "buy a brick" or something similar to support the project is there an initiative of that kind ongoing? 
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlangentThrowback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 10:16
You're quite right about the current business model in which the stadium is a major source of income on non-match days. Of course, my argument is that they wouldn't have had the stadium without the capital obtained from a unique source. I also see that SW Comms have just renewed their sponsorship for the 25th year. How many clubs have had level of support and would they have had so much for so long without the connection between the two organisations? I hadn't realised before just how much infrastructure SW Comms provide to Exeter and I suspect that isn't on normal commercial terms. So, as I say Exeter is a tough model for others to follow.

As for Bristol, clearly the play-offs were hugely detrimental but as you say the current playing model worked last season (though if you saw the performance at Worcester you might not be so certain of that). Bristol were also helped by Leicester's fall and the reversion to type from Newcastle. Clearly on-field success feeds into a sustainable business model but one season of relative success doesn't mean things are secured for the medium of long term.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 09:36
All fair points PT - it could still be difficult to divert support from the Chiefs ( especially given the club's success) to a new venture. Exeter has done really well since winning promotion but I would argue that despite the advantages correctly identified by you the business model put in place combined with the recruitment and retention of good quality admin,coaching and playing members is still the key.

Bristol have at last succeeded in staying up and have followed a new model based upon a couple of marquee signings combined with the recruitment of young players with talent/potential. Last season this paid off the real test comes in the coming campaign.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlangentThrowback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2019 at 09:12
It is interesting how often Exeter are mentioned as the model to follow.  However, their rise had a number of circumstances that are difficult for other clubs to replicate.  The most obvious is the sale of their previous ground at a particularly lucrative time in the property market.  The related factor is that they were able to get the land at Sandy Park at a much lower price than they gained from the sale.  The fact they are a members club is, I think, a bit of a red herring.  The source of their funding has not been primarily from those members but from one wealthy individual and his associated company over a considerable period.  In a similar way Leicester are often cited as a shareholders club but conveniently overlooking the fact that two shareholders who act in concert own 51% and therefore control it.  Similarly the Wasps model of uprooting to another city and ignoring the ambitious and historic native club already there is also difficult to replicate because it was based on a specific set of circumstances surrounding the ownership of the Ricoh.  Even then the failure to meet scheduled bond
payments surely indicate that the deal wasn't as advantageous as it was stated at the time.
 
I believe that the so-called Exeter model is not one that is generally applicable and perhaps it isn't really the one CP are following.  However, I have often wondered if the 'market' for professional rugby in Cornwall is quite as large (or exploitable) as is often thought.  I agree that locating in Truro helps because, with the best will in the world, transport links within the county still aren't brilliant but we are still talking about a large area with a population of something over half a million (and with relatively high levels of deprivation).  How much of that is available for access and will it be enough to sustain a professional side at the highest level?  As a comparison the Bristol urban area (much smaller geographically and with better transport links) has a considerably larger (and relatively affluent) population and still struggled to maintain a top tier rugby side.  Yes, there is more competition both from other professional sports (although you could argue that that simply creates a larger market for spectator sport) and also competition from other professional rugby clubs who have temporarily been more successful.  But if a club with good transport links to the rest of the country, in a wealthy and densely populated area has struggled over the years what makes it possible for CP to succeed at the highest level?
 
I admire the optimism and dedication but simply having a new stadium doesn't necessarily equate with sustainable on-field success.  You only have to look at Bristol's extended sojourn in the Championship (and Leedshire for that matter) to see how even the best supported club can struggle. On the other hand, if we move to summer rugby then CP may well gain a potential market with plenty of spending power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stadium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 15:35
Surreyben fair comment but 5206 hits since 11th July so someone must be interested in this topic. They say their is no such thing as bad publicity!Also without news this Forum dies.
The Stadiun4Cornwall Website  has been organised by a lady for 8 years and was  a very effective tool in the campaign.The Stadium project has a Worldwide audience wanting to be updated on news and progress which is difficult to come by. For this reason the website was discontinued and www.stadium4cornwall.blogspot.com started.


Edited by stadium - 18 Jul 2019 at 15:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 15:17
Originally posted by Surreyben Surreyben wrote:

As someone who has supported the stadium situation for years and years, I think the actual problem here is the fact that for, equally years and years the Stadium blog has been promising that things are "imminent" when, in actual fact they have not been. This creates a "cry wolf" scenario leading to some who simply don't believe the "imminent" announcements anymore.

I believe the stadium is closer than ever before, but unfortunately the stadium blog has created a rod for its own back.

It's a fair comment, Ben, but it's a difficult balance to strike. If no news comes out, people get twitchy and say they want to know what's going on. Then there's the problem of organisations (like the government and Sport England) who seem to take an eternity to make decisions and then deliver on them. The latest announcements are very positive and it remains to be seen if they another example of "imminent" actually meaning "dreckly"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 12:56
The  Crusaders was a religious organisation back in the 50's but I think its origins lie in the "muscular" Christianity which contributed to the development a range of sports back in the day Dings Crusaders are probably the best  known of theses sides as the club emerged from The Dings a notorious slum area in Bristol by all accounts.

Anyway apologies for going "off piste" although Cornish Pirates is interesting because not only did the SW have its own rogue element hence the name but was also subject to raids from Barbary Pirates looking fog galley slaves amongst other things - not a lot of fun being chained to an oar 24/7.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 12:49
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

Spot on - its an interesting topic the development of the game especially as most of the clubs who formed the Northern Union are still playing whether Union,League or indeed Association football. 

Any idea why names such as Saracens or Hornets were so popular back in the 19th C ? They appear down here in the SW as well and indeed up North ( Rochdale Hornets is the one I remember). Mohicans must have influenced Joe Marler!
 

Gypsies was common for wandering/touring sides - comes from cricket, where of course I Zingari are still very much a thing.

Wasps/hornets was down to the colours of the shirts rather than the other way round (colours following name) AIUI. 

Sarries, depending on who you believe, were either because they wanted to be like the Saracens, or because they'd already got local rivals (who they later merged with) called Crusaders.

Out in the provinces, eg Exeter Saracens, tended to be named after the more high profile London clubs - in much the same way as many clubs throughout England basically play in Richmond shirts because it was iconic.

Overall it seems to be that rugby followed the cricket approach (at the very beginning, when they were heavily London centric) for the non-county sides of just giving them whimsical names rather than geographic designations (also helped before they'd settled down to a regular ground).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Surreyben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 12:13
As someone who has supported the stadium situation for years and years, I think the actual problem here is the fact that for, equally years and years the Stadium blog has been promising that things are "imminent" when, in actual fact they have not been. This creates a "cry wolf" scenario leading to some who simply don't believe the "imminent" announcements anymore.

I believe the stadium is closer than ever before, but unfortunately the stadium blog has created a rod for its own back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 12:03
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

Spot on - its an interesting topic the development of the game especially as most of the clubs who formed the Northern Union are still playing whether Union,League or indeed Association football. 

Any idea why names such as Saracens or Hornets were so popular back in the 19th C ? They appear down here in the SW as well and indeed up North ( Rochdale Hornets is the one I remember). Mohicans must have influenced Joe Marler!
 

Gypsies was common for wandering/touring sides - comes from cricket, where of course I Zingari are still very much a thing.

Wasps/hornets was down to the colours of the shirts rather than the other way round (colours following name) AIUI. 

Sarries, depending on who you believe, were either because they wanted to be like the Saracens, or because they'd already got local rivals (who they later merged with) called Crusaders.

Out in the provinces, eg Exeter Saracens, tended to be named after the more high profile London clubs - in much the same way as many clubs throughout England basically play in Richmond shirts because it was iconic.

Overall it seems to be that rugby followed the cricket approach (at the very beginning, when they were heavily London centric) for the non-county sides of just giving them whimsical names rather than geographic designations (also helped before they'd settled down to a regular ground).


Edited by billesleyexile - 18 Jul 2019 at 12:04
keep the faith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 11:43
Spot on - its an interesting topic the development of the game especially as most of the clubs who formed the Northern Union are still playing whether Union,League or indeed Association football. 

Any idea why names such as Saracens or Hornets were so popular back in the 19th C ? They appear down here in the SW as well and indeed up North ( Rochdale Hornets is the one I remember). Mohicans must have influenced Joe Marler!
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