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JonDee View Drop Down
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    Posted: 3 hours 15 minutes ago at 11:39
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Originally posted by greeneyed greeneyed wrote:


Is Premiership rugby viable in Leeds? Is Premiership rugby viable anywhere which competes locally with rugby League? Union gets a modest mention in the Yorkshire Post but nothing compared to League, and never gets a mention at all on the Yorkshire local TV channels.
 

Premiership Rugby is not viable anywhere unless it is the primary sport, hence Exeter are the only profitable club. Tigers were profitable for many years as Leicester City went through the doldrums now it has reverted and Tigers are losing attendances and profitability.  The only way the clubs can continue is to sell to CVC etc but they are slowly losing control to companies who have no interest in the sport only profit

Agree. The profitability thing’s potentially a bit misleading too I think. If Tony Rowe/SW Comms provide say, £500k in sponsorship that’s really only worth £100k to them, are they still profitable or subsidied by their benefactor?
 
I think you are right but most Premiership  teams are subsidised by a major benefactor but Exeter have the benefit of almost zero sporting competition and therefore sell out nearly all their game they have a massive conferencing set up which again produces a large profit. Am sure they will have plans to enlarge the stadium in the future all in all they are run firstly as a business which just happens to have a rugby club as well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maire23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 20 minutes ago at 11:34
Tigers have no debt but they’ve lost a lot of fans because of recent times they’ve been rubbish!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Joy of (Level) 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 57 minutes ago at 09:57
Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Originally posted by greeneyed greeneyed wrote:


Is Premiership rugby viable in Leeds? Is Premiership rugby viable anywhere which competes locally with rugby League? Union gets a modest mention in the Yorkshire Post but nothing compared to League, and never gets a mention at all on the Yorkshire local TV channels.
 

Premiership Rugby is not viable anywhere unless it is the primary sport, hence Exeter are the only profitable club. Tigers were profitable for many years as Leicester City went through the doldrums now it has reverted and Tigers are losing attendances and profitability.  The only way the clubs can continue is to sell to CVC etc but they are slowly losing control to companies who have no interest in the sport only profit

Agree. The profitability thing’s potentially a bit misleading too I think. If Tony Rowe/SW Comms provide say, £500k in sponsorship that’s really only worth £100k to them, are they still profitable or subsidied by their benefactor?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 42 minutes ago at 08:12
Originally posted by greeneyed greeneyed wrote:

Is Premiership rugby viable in Leeds? Is Premiership rugby viable anywhere which competes locally with rugby League? Union gets a modest mention in the Yorkshire Post but nothing compared to League, and never gets a mention at all on the Yorkshire local TV channels.
 

Premiership Rugby is not viable anywhere unless it is the primary sport, hence Exeter are the only profitable club. Tigers were profitable for many years as Leicester City went through the doldrums now it has reverted and Tigers are losing attendances and profitability.  The only way the clubs can continue is to sell to CVC etc but they are slowly losing control to companies who have no interest in the sport only profit
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackCountryMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 hours 4 minutes ago at 21:50


Sorry - newbie. Went on the wrong thread completely. Please ignore me!!

Edited by BlackCountryMan - 16 hours 41 minutes ago at 22:13
Trying to figure it all out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greeneyed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 10:07
Is Premiership rugby viable in Leeds? Is Premiership rugby viable anywhere which competes locally with rugby League? Union gets a modest mention in the Yorkshire Post but nothing compared to League, and never gets a mention at all on the Yorkshire local TV channels.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlangentThrowback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 08:33
Just a small point, but the last time Bristol played Leedshire we didn't have the stupid alliterative ursine addition to our name.

More seriously, the adoption of the county name by Leeds did nothing to attract additional support particularly when at the time there were two other sides playing at the same level also in Yorkshire. Some have argued that Bristol's rebrand has been successful because of the increased crowd numbers. I would argue that there is no evidence for this when crowds across the Premiership have been increasing. In particular I suspect that the relative success on a return to the Premiership is much more of a factor. In the case of Leedshire we have seen a decline in on-field success and that has been reflected in the level of support. And that with a much lower level of core support to begin with. The central problem is that that without sustained relative success, indeed with apparent long term decline, support will decline. There's little even good management can do about that and Leedshire, for a variety of reasons, has lacked good management for while now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adoptedgog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 07:05
I have no idea if it is the same at all clubs but there were certainly a lot of freebies given out when they were last in the Premiership, something that my son and his friends as students were able to take advantage of. However the overriding question remains,' Is Premiership Rugby viable in the long-term in Leeds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 06:38
I went to see them play Newcastle with Jonny Wilkinson playing . There were over 14000 there then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 23:51
Ten years ago when Leeds were last in the Premiership, they attracted an average gate over 6,000 
But since then they have not got near that number - indeed are now attracting just over a quarter of that number.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adoptedgog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 20:52
Is there genuinely a demand for a professional side to be based in Leeds? Although I live many miles away I have visited the city on many occasions over the last few years - My son was at University there and after graduating continued to live and play locally.- I can genuinely say that whilst I have seen an awful lot of people wearing Leeds United and Leeds Rhinos shirts etc, I have never seen anyone in a Yorkshire Carnegie shirt in the city. In a similar vein I watched Carnegie play the high flying Bristol Bears side 2 seasons ago at Headingley. In spite of the attraction of playing the best side in the League, I would be amazed if the crowd was more than 2,000 and even with most of the stadium closed as part of the rebuild the atmosphere was pretty non existent. I would have thought that if a top level side is to be developed in Yorkshire it would be better off playing in a smaller stadium than is Headingley in a location where they don't have to directly compete with football or league. I appreciate that statistics can be twisted to back up pretty well any argument but as a demonstration of the uphill battle Union faces in Leeds it is interesting to compare the number of twitter followers of the 3 codes principal clubs:
Leeds United 425K
Leeds Rhinos 185K ( more incidentally than Bath or Saracens)
Yorkshire Carnegie Rugby Union 13.5K
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 19:27
Hmm. BPA hosted England u20s in April.
All largely irrelevant though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 13:48
Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

Don't forget that Castle Park is a RFU International Stadium...albeit with the Ladies, but that is a side of our sport that is growing rapidly.
The Knights are in the spot light!!
 

So's Billesley Common (England Deaf)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 13:34
Don't forget that Castle Park is a RFU International Stadium...albeit with the Ladies, but that is a side of our sport that is growing rapidly.
The Knights are in the spot light!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 12:48
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

I do think that the long term plan (but by who?) is to have a Yorkshire team in a ring fenced Premiership.
 

But surely any such ring fenced league will also include Newcastle and Pirates(?) as well as a Yorkshire side so that gives us 15 before looking at any other candidates. No doubt an increase in home games would be welcomed by the clubs but possibly not by the players?

In many ways the structure needs a radical shake up with ( say) a European  or Anglo -Irish Super League supported by slightly more modest Premier leagues in the participating countries. 

Just a thought !

 
 

Basically the RFU screwed up when the game went pro, and we're still paying the price. The top table clubs are in the wrong places really in terms of geographic reach, and they should have expanded, rather than shot, the divisional sides IMO. 

ETA - essentially I'd have no problem whatsoever being a Mose fan and a Midland Counties fan (indeed I was one), but in a ringfenced premiership based on clubs I'm not going to stop supporting Mose, or start supporting one of the clubs on the right side of the fence.



Edited by billesleyexile - 17 Jul 2019 at 12:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 11:38
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:



apart from the difficulty of access by public transport they have excellent facilities which could easily be developed to premiership standards

 


Just like the A J Bell in Salford   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 11:34
I am not sure anyone at HQ has played against Doncaster or Pirates - so they do not come to mind as options.

Anyway with Exeter, Bristol, Bsth and Gloucester, the SW has four clubs.
The North only has two newcastle and Sale and Sale is pushing the definition of North.
But I was born in Ashington so Newcastle was in the deep South.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 11:20
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

I do think that the long term plan (but by who?) is to have a Yorkshire team in a ring fenced Premiership.
 

But surely any such ring fenced league will also include Newcastle and Pirates(?) as well as a Yorkshire side so that gives us 15 before looking at any other candidates. No doubt an increase in home games would be welcomed by the clubs but possibly not by the players?

In many ways the structure needs a radical shake up with ( say) a European  or Anglo -Irish Super League supported by slightly more modest Premier leagues in the participating countries. 

Just a thought !

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 11:15
IMO Donny have the best playing surface in the Championship and apart from the difficulty of access by public transport they have excellent facilities which could easily be developed to premiership standards. The average home crowd of just over a thousand is probably the key issue and Blues or Cov seem like having a better chance of achieving sustainable premiership status. It would be wonderful for rugby and the region if Pirates could achieve it and I hope they do.  
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 11:02
Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

You know Doncaster has the best facilities in Yorkshire by a Country Mile......ideal candidates methinks.
 
Wait - are you saying...Yorkshire Knights? [Ducks too slowly]Ouch

Actually - we have flags that say that. A handful were manufactured shortly after Leeds re-branded as a bit of a joke / poking fun at Leeds. We flew them at the Play Off Semi Finals and at the Play Off Finals. I don't think that brand worked for them, nor will it for us Wink

With Stephen Lloyd (one of our two primary benefactors) taking over as Chairman of the Championship clubs in 20/21 season (vice Chair this forthcoming season) the profile raising that he wants to do may well help our cause a tad (the cause being Championship Rugby primarily), but potentially Doncaster Knights might glean some additional benefits too (hoping).
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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