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Regional Premier Leagues 2019/20

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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Regional Premier Leagues 2019/20
    Posted: 1 hour 14 minutes ago at 13:19
My figures were the size in square miles of the counties in the division.

Midland Division includes NLD (Notts, Lincs, Derby) which is huge but has few senior clubs - obviously Notts in the Championship and the club with a rude word in the middle recently promoted to Nat 2, Derby and Lichfield recently relegated to Midlands 1E.

Great Yarmouth would normally play are in L&SE - being an Eastern Counties club. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 15 minutes ago at 12:18
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Actually if my sums are right, the South West is the second smallest division, only London is smaller. 
The North is slightly bigger and the Midlands is the largest.
However, the South West is probably the least square.
 
As I said elsewhere the choices made more sense in the age of rail.
I'm assuming the sizing calcs you've done Cam are based on the potential area for each Division rather than the actual geographical spread of the clubs in the mix each season. With no clubs any further east than Peterborough then currently Midlands is second 'smallest' in terms of travel distances for clubs and supporters, with no single journey any longer than 120 miles (subject to level transfers being announced). Most single journeys are in double figures. If a team like Great Yarmouth were promoted in the future then the ranking may change, but by the travel spreadsheets below then most trips for Midlands teams in 2019/20 are of a reasonable distance. (The figures in the spreadsheets show miles between teams for a single journey*)  (*- Blame Google)
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As you say, maybe made more sense in the age of rail, but ticket prices have ruled that out as a travel option. For teams having to travel 250+ miles each way for a game then the fuel costs start to rack up for players and supporters - especially for the players who aren't paid and get no travel costs either.  Maidenhead to Camborne is a 530 mile round trip. About 12 gallons of fuel. Not much change from £80. Those sort of figures influence the number of away supporters you'll get. Club bar takings are affected as a result. It's a hell of a web to untangle in truth and that's why there can be understandable resistance to level transfers.
 
Originally posted by MaidsBoy MaidsBoy wrote:

.....a huge positive in my opinion is the team social aspect of the long bus trips back. Few players want to drive from Maidenhead to Devon or Cornwall, so consequently, we will have the whole squad together for 4, 5, 6 hours together on a coach, something I know we would dearly miss if we were in a different region.
Maids I'd question how enthusiast the players would be if they experienced travelling 270 miles down to Camborne in January, being caught in a motorway delay, turning up around midnight to a Travel Lodge overnighter then have the game called off due to poor weather and to be asked to play a rearranged fixture and do it all again later in the season... and the same thing happens a few weeks later with another 200 mile each way trip down to Brixham, or Launceston or Ivybridge, or Okehampton.....Wink    
 
For ease I've copied the tables below again. LSE teams have a relative stroll to play their matches. The furthest Sidcup have to travel is 70 miles. SW teams have a 'journey'. (Maidenhead have only two trips during the entire season that are under 100 miles)  North div is where the mess needs untangling and the figures shown will change once three of those teams are spread into other Divs.




 
I don't envy RFU trying to make sense of it all and persuading teams to transfer and the other thread on 'Bees collapse' shows the resistance there is, but while the funding is being squeezed and there's so little money at this level and below then for all the player's ambitions of wanting to play at the highest level possible the reality is that the current model is broke (in both senses of the word) 


Edited by Dobber - 1 hour 55 minutes ago at 12:38
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 50 minutes ago at 09:43
But where would you draw the borders instead.
There are always going to be edge cases.

Redruth is still going to be a long way fro anywhere, and there will always be the cluster of West Cumbrian clubs huddled on the coast surrounded by mountains.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carlos fandango Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 56 minutes ago at 09:37
Perhaps the problem needs to be solved by doing away with the county borders. For example, a team from east Berkshire is virtually in London, whereas west Berkshire neighbours Wiltshire. Two clubs in the same county would have vastly different ideal regional desires. 

Get rid of the county borders and it may make everyone's life a bit easier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaidsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 45 minutes ago at 08:48
People bemoan the travel, and I accept it is tiresome, and we certainly struggle with availability some times, especially with our players in the teaching profession.

However, a huge positive in my opinion is the team social aspect of the long bus trips back. Few players want to drive from Maidenhead to Devon or Cornwall, so consequently, we will have the whole squad together for 4, 5, 6 hours together on a coach, something I know we would dearly miss if we were in a different region.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BruceElliott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 7 minutes ago at 08:26
Originally posted by Athman Athman wrote:

The fact that all three divisions (Midlands, South West and London) have come out and said they have a delay in sorting out next season implies all three are impacted!


I suspect London is only impacted as far as having to see what happens with Bedford while they resolve issues between Midlands and SW.

The mileage run down on page 6 of this thread was fascinating. I wasn't initially that impressed at the thought of a trip from TW to Bedford last season but looking at some of the mileages for Midlands clubs down to SW... and just SW in general... I realise how lucky we are in L&SE.

Anyone here fancy a 260+ mile round trip for a rugby match? (Other than Guernsey, Robb...). Maidenhead & Bracknell both face that along with Camborne in the opposite direction.



Edited by BruceElliott - 5 hours 58 minutes ago at 08:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 43 minutes ago at 15:50
Originally posted by oldman oldman wrote:

Additional information from Midlands. One level 7 club “told” they had to join SW division as a level transfer rest of local clubs in that level league have said, I understand on masse, that is not acceptable and they will all withdraw from league if club forced to move as in Lancashire last season. Ball firmly in RFU’s court.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Not Will Webb Ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 13:54
Page 4 but he’s deleted it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:38
Additional information from Midlands. One level 7 club “told” they had to join SW division as a level transfer rest of local clubs in that level league have said, I understand on masse, that is not acceptable and they will all withdraw from league if club forced to move as in Lancashire last season. Ball firmly in RFU’s court.
Question is who does the RFU run the game for? is it the majority of players or the professional minority?
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Cannon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 09:45
Originally posted by Stoo The Zoom Stoo The Zoom wrote:

This is, dare I say it, worse than Brexit.
I thought this was a B***** free site!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 06:53
Hmm...... So Clubs not happy about excessive travel now where have we heard that before...... ah yes "Revolt in the North" yet no ones seems to pressing the "Hate" button at the moment on these Clubs like they did when the Lancashire Clubs got fed up with RFU Competitions Department repeated failure to act. 
I hear one of the keenest supporters of the Midlands Clubs not happy with Level Transfers to the SW and excessive travel from the Midlands is none other than Paul Kaminski, that's interesting because he was very critical of the Lancashire breakaway, clearly a case of NIMBY-ISM.

This is an issue like the one in the North is not going to go away and the RFU seem intent on watching instead of acting to do something about it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoo The Zoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 01:14
This is, dare I say it, worse than Brexit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 19:56
Originally posted by sidelined sidelined wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Not Will Webb Ellis Not Will Webb Ellis wrote:

Bromsgrove have a lot of competition locally for support with the meteoric rise of the round ballers getting back to back to back promotions and getting consistent 1000+ crowds. Bromsgrove Sporting won their play off in front of a 3000+ crowd. It’s true that the rugby club would only get a smattering of that, it’s a Wendyball town So Gate revenue will be minimal to support away travel.
Too late for next season but would splitting the 4 regions into 5 regions be a solution? The shape of the country isn’t very helpful but perhaps a new “North” then perhaps a “Midlands North” “Midlands South” then “SW” and “SE” or variations thereof. #LightsBlueTouchpaperAndRetiresImmediately


The SW is the problem - a huge area, the promotion over the last few years of Bournemouth, Old Reds and Dings hasn't helped mileage


I totally agree that the SW is too vast an area, for the life of me I can't understand why Berks and Bucks aren't in L&SE. 

And while I'll agree about Old Reds and Dings, Bournemouth, although "only" 124 miles it takes a good 3+ hours to get there, and the same back.



I'm sure Berks and Bucks should be in L & SE - must be a historic thing, however moving Berks to L & SE would compound the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Athman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 18:35
If this is all about moving a team from Midlands to South West and assuming the RFU don't just overrule everybody and force the transfer through anyway the solution might have to be playing 15 clubs in the Midlands League and 13 in the South West. The RFU aren't going to like the precedent set though, however the only other alternative seems to be to move a second Midlands team to London and transfer a London side to the South West which looks no more palatable for the likes of Guildford.

It would appear it is the following regulation that is being exercised:

Where in exceptional circumstances the strict application of Regulations ... creates a significant disadvantage to a Club (or Clubs) whether such Club or Clubs is (are) the Club(s) to be transferred ... or other Club(s) affected by the proposed transfer in terms of travelling time, cost or because of local geography considerable other inconvenience AND the Organising Committee can effect a Level Transfer which removes or reduces that significant disadvantage for the benefit of the game of rugby union football overall in the locality the Organising Committee may in its absolute discretion take such factors (in addition to or instead of Lowest Total Mileage) into account when deciding which Club(s) are to be Level Transferred.
 
The fact that all three divisions (Midlands, South West and London) have come out and said they have a delay in sorting out next season implies all three are impacted!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 17:42
Actually if my sums are right, the South West is the second smallest division, only London is smaller. 
The North is slightly bigger and the Midlands is the largest.

However, the South West is probably the least square.

As I said elsewhere the choices made more sense in the age of rail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 16:24
Originally posted by Cannon Cannon wrote:

Statement on RFU SE site:

“Fixture update - Season 2019-2020

Owing to Level Transfer issues in other Divisions beyond our control it has not been possible to make a start on producing fixtures for next season.

We do not have an estimate on when we will be able to start other than our regulatory requirement to produce the fixtures by June 15th.

We will update this page with more information as soon as it becomes available.

19 May 19”

Looks like we could be waiting a while!

Damn you Midlands clubs! Shocked Some of us want to know our fixtures so we can book our Guernsey flights! Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sidelined Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 16:01
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Not Will Webb Ellis Not Will Webb Ellis wrote:

Bromsgrove have a lot of competition locally for support with the meteoric rise of the round ballers getting back to back to back promotions and getting consistent 1000+ crowds. Bromsgrove Sporting won their play off in front of a 3000+ crowd. It’s true that the rugby club would only get a smattering of that, it’s a Wendyball town So Gate revenue will be minimal to support away travel.
Too late for next season but would splitting the 4 regions into 5 regions be a solution? The shape of the country isn’t very helpful but perhaps a new “North” then perhaps a “Midlands North” “Midlands South” then “SW” and “SE” or variations thereof. #LightsBlueTouchpaperAndRetiresImmediately


The SW is the problem - a huge area, the promotion over the last few years of Bournemouth, Old Reds and Dings hasn't helped mileage

I totally agree that the SW is too vast an area, for the life of me I can't understand why Berks and Bucks aren't in L&SE. 

And while I'll agree about Old Reds and Dings, Bournemouth, although "only" 124 miles it takes a good 3+ hours to get there, and the same back.


Edited by sidelined - 19 May 2019 at 16:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 12:32
Originally posted by Not Will Webb Ellis Not Will Webb Ellis wrote:

Bromsgrove have a lot of competition locally for support with the meteoric rise of the round ballers getting back to back to back promotions and getting consistent 1000+ crowds. Bromsgrove Sporting won their play off in front of a 3000+ crowd. It’s true that the rugby club would only get a smattering of that, it’s a Wendyball town So Gate revenue will be minimal to support away travel.
Too late for next season but would splitting the 4 regions into 5 regions be a solution? The shape of the country isn’t very helpful but perhaps a new “North” then perhaps a “Midlands North” “Midlands South” then “SW” and “SE” or variations thereof. #LightsBlueTouchpaperAndRetiresImmediately


The SW is the problem - a huge area, the promotion over the last few years of Bournemouth, Old Reds and Dings hasn't helped mileage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 12:12
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Can you point us in the direction of the post by "Theroughpro"??

http://www.rolling-maul.com/search_results_posts.asp?SearchID=20190519121145&KW=
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 11:40
Statement on RFU SE site:

“Fixture update - Season 2019-2020

Owing to Level Transfer issues in other Divisions beyond our control it has not been possible to make a start on producing fixtures for next season.

We do not have an estimate on when we will be able to start other than our regulatory requirement to produce the fixtures by June 15th.

We will update this page with more information as soon as it becomes available.

19 May 19”

Looks like we could be waiting a while!
Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!
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