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The Blues View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 22:06
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Originally posted by Hoffee Hoffee wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Cant believe you're discussing crowds (mis-use of the word??) of around 1000 in the Championship!!
Level 5 Play-Off game at Luctonians was around that figure - no wonder Level 2 isn't sustainable

I'm not sure the low crowd figures are the single reason this league is unsustainable. In the prem, not a single club except Exeter managed to turn over a profit last season, despite the large crowds. The problem is under-funding and clubs not spending within their means. It baffles me why there aren't a lot more people showing up to watch Championship rugby, it's a great product.

So you agree that L2 is unsustainable?


Well Blues turned a profit in the year to 2017 and 2018 and keep moving closer towards a self-sufficient model without a wealthy benefactor.

Edited by The Blues - 28 Apr 2019 at 22:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 07:25
We had around 1000 at ODP for our final league game - there were no Championship matches that weekend, but according to the Rugby Paper none of the 24 (?) National League games had a crowd as big as ours.  Mind you, I've been to plenty of Level 2 games at ODP where we didn't have a crowd as big as that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 09:14
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Originally posted by Hoffee Hoffee wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Cant believe you're discussing crowds (mis-use of the word??) of around 1000 in the Championship!!
Level 5 Play-Off game at Luctonians was around that figure - no wonder Level 2 isn't sustainable

I'm not sure the low crowd figures are the single reason this league is unsustainable. In the prem, not a single club except Exeter managed to turn over a profit last season, despite the large crowds. The problem is under-funding and clubs not spending within their means. It baffles me why there aren't a lot more people showing up to watch Championship rugby, it's a great product.

So you agree that L2 is unsustainable?

Agree that Champ rugby is a great product, We've seen some very high quality rugby this season. A lot of the problem is that it's so low key in the media. Even dedicated rugby magazine programmes, like the BT one, very seldom mention it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hoffee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 10:41
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Originally posted by Hoffee Hoffee wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Cant believe you're discussing crowds (mis-use of the word??) of around 1000 in the Championship!!
Level 5 Play-Off game at Luctonians was around that figure - no wonder Level 2 isn't sustainable

I'm not sure the low crowd figures are the single reason this league is unsustainable. In the prem, not a single club except Exeter managed to turn over a profit last season, despite the large crowds. The problem is under-funding and clubs not spending within their means. It baffles me why there aren't a lot more people showing up to watch Championship rugby, it's a great product.

So you agree that L2 is unsustainable?


Well yes it's hard not to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 11:25
Originally posted by Hoffee Hoffee wrote:

Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Originally posted by Hoffee Hoffee wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Cant believe you're discussing crowds (mis-use of the word??) of around 1000 in the Championship!!
Level 5 Play-Off game at Luctonians was around that figure - no wonder Level 2 isn't sustainable

I'm not sure the low crowd figures are the single reason this league is unsustainable. In the prem, not a single club except Exeter managed to turn over a profit last season, despite the large crowds. The problem is under-funding and clubs not spending within their means. It baffles me why there aren't a lot more people showing up to watch Championship rugby, it's a great product.

So you agree that L2 is unsustainable?


Well yes it's hard not to.
 

As is L1 on the basis only 1 club made a profit last year and the clubs income is mainly from the RFU and TV 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WINGER14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 11:26
There's certainly a mystery involved around the attendance figure at the Irish / Ealing game. On here posters claim their copy has read 2050 or 5020.
I bought my copy in Leeds and can say with 100% certainty that it gives the attendance figure as ---- 5070.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Joy of (Level) 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 14:35
Originally posted by Hoffee Hoffee wrote:

Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Originally posted by Hoffee Hoffee wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Cant believe you're discussing crowds (mis-use of the word??) of around 1000 in the Championship!!
Level 5 Play-Off game at Luctonians was around that figure - no wonder Level 2 isn't sustainable

I'm not sure the low crowd figures are the single reason this league is unsustainable. In the prem, not a single club except Exeter managed to turn over a profit last season, despite the large crowds. The problem is under-funding and clubs not spending within their means. It baffles me why there aren't a lot more people showing up to watch Championship rugby, it's a great product.

So you agree that L2 is unsustainable?


Well yes it's hard not to.

Indeed. The way attendances fall away so quickly outside of the Premiership is very strange. Some L3 clubs seem to average around 300 or so which is amazing to me as that’s far fewer than many sides playing at much lower levels.
It also feels to me that the entertainment value of the rugby in L2 has increased dramatically over the past 5-6 years and yet that still doesn’t attract the punters/TV rights/major sponsors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 15:13
With Cov being away this weekend I took up the offer of a free ticket to watch Wasps play Saracens at The Ricoh.  For the most part it was pretty dull affair with lots of errors - admittedly mainly from Wasps.

What amazes me, however, is where the 15,000 spectators, who are willing to watch rugby in Coventry, have come from and why they've never deigned to give watching Cov a go in a proper rugby environment.  Not that we particularly want the allez, allez, allez brigade down at Butts Park...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 15:19
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Originally posted by Hoffee Hoffee wrote:

Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Originally posted by Hoffee Hoffee wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Cant believe you're discussing crowds (mis-use of the word??) of around 1000 in the Championship!!
Level 5 Play-Off game at Luctonians was around that figure - no wonder Level 2 isn't sustainable

I'm not sure the low crowd figures are the single reason this league is unsustainable. In the prem, not a single club except Exeter managed to turn over a profit last season, despite the large crowds. The problem is under-funding and clubs not spending within their means. It baffles me why there aren't a lot more people showing up to watch Championship rugby, it's a great product.

So you agree that L2 is unsustainable?


Well yes it's hard not to.

Indeed. The way attendances fall away so quickly outside of the Premiership is very strange. Some L3 clubs seem to average around 300 or so which is amazing to me as that’s far fewer than many sides playing at much lower levels.
It also feels to me that the entertainment value of the rugby in L2 has increased dramatically over the past 5-6 years and yet that still doesn’t attract the punters/TV rights/major sponsors.


I think that ticket prices have a lot to do with it. Don't get me wrong, personally I think that what we pay in Jersey is good value for the level of rugby that we are able to watch and the entertainment is good. It's just that when you are competing with other Premiership clubs or Championship/League One football clubs as do many of the Level 2 sides, then the 2nd tier of English rugby is the loser I'm afraid.
Jersey had much bigger crowds in Nat 1 paying £5 or £10 a ticket. Yes, we won just about all of our home games, but the level of rugby is not what it is now and this season the squad have been deserving of a lot more than the average crowd of C. 1,500 per game. Big shame, but hopefully the club can find a way of winning the support back....it's not as if we have any other sport, that attracts those sort of numbers over here, to compete with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 15:36
Originally posted by Rob C Rob C wrote:

With Cov being away this weekend I took up the offer of a free ticket to watch Wasps play Saracens at The Ricoh.  For the most part it was pretty dull affair with lots of errors - admittedly mainly from Wasps.

What amazes me, however, is where the 15,000 spectators, who are willing to watch rugby in Coventry, have come from and why they've never deigned to give watching Cov a go in a proper rugby environment.  Not that we particularly want the allez, allez, allez brigade down at Butts Park...
 
I think your comment about the free ticket has a lot to do with it , there are a lot of free tickets flying around at the top end especially through corporate sponsors and working with the community teams + players tickets and other staff. I counted 19 large sponsors on Wasps site at a guess as part of their deal 10-20 tickets per match ?? plus 30 - 40 players who will get 2 -4 tickets per match if the community team are good they will have at least 1 school and 1 junior rugby club at each  game with parents / teachers you could argue that's 500 - 750 free tickets many of which are passed on to a friend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 15:44
Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Originally posted by Rob C Rob C wrote:

With Cov being away this weekend I took up the offer of a free ticket to watch Wasps play Saracens at The Ricoh.  For the most part it was pretty dull affair with lots of errors - admittedly mainly from Wasps.

What amazes me, however, is where the 15,000 spectators, who are willing to watch rugby in Coventry, have come from and why they've never deigned to give watching Cov a go in a proper rugby environment.  Not that we particularly want the allez, allez, allez brigade down at Butts Park...
 
I think your comment about the free ticket has a lot to do with it , there are a lot of free tickets flying around at the top end especially through corporate sponsors and working with the community teams + players tickets and other staff. I counted 19 large sponsors on Wasps site at a guess as part of their deal 10-20 tickets per match ?? plus 30 - 40 players who will get 2 -4 tickets per match if the community team are good they will have at least 1 school and 1 junior rugby club at each  game with parents / teachers you could argue that's 500 - 750 free tickets many of which are passed on to a friend.

You're absolutely right, there are a lot of freebies flying around but we're talking 15,000 people - a large proportion of those would be paying - and there didn't seem to be many Sarries supporters there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 15:57
Originally posted by Rob C Rob C wrote:

With Cov being away this weekend I took up the offer of a free ticket to watch Wasps play Saracens at The Ricoh.  For the most part it was pretty dull affair with lots of errors - admittedly mainly from Wasps.

What amazes me, however, is where the 15,000 spectators, who are willing to watch rugby in Coventry, have come from and why they've never deigned to give watching Cov a go in a proper rugby environment.  Not that we particularly want the allez, allez, allez brigade down at Butts Park...

You answered your own question Rob.
Wasps have reverse pickpockets all over Warks and W Mids, shoving freebie tickets into pockets. If you're really unlucky you'll find two of 'em.
Now, that may seem an OTT comment, but there's a large element of truth in it. There's rarely any need for casual attenders to actually buy tickets, as there are freebies all over the place. One pub I know in Rugby is regularly on Facebook trying to offload them.
No way to run a rugby business.
And further, every time I see photos of the Ricoh stands on matchday, curiously it's very difficult to correlate the apparent attendance with the quoted one.
I've been in there enough times for CCFC matches to know what a 10, or 12, or 15000 crowd looks like, and it ain't what the cuckoos say it is.
They have more problems than just a high interest bond and a huge debt to pay off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 17:06
The final stats just came out from HQ, average league crowds:
  1. Irish 3,770
  2. Blues 2,527
  3. Cov 2,307
  4. Pirates 1,835
  5. Jersey 1,631
  6. Carnegie 1,460
  7. Scottish 1,373
  8. Notts 1,271
  9. Mond 1,211
  10. Donny 1,160
  11. Ealing 1,035
  12. Hartpury 960
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 17:15
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:


The final stats just came out from HQ, average league crowds:
  1. Irish 3,770
  2. Blues 2,527
  3. Cov 2,307
  4. Pirates 1,835
  5. Jersey 1,631
  6. Carnegie 1,460
  7. Scottish 1,373
  8. Notts 1,271
  9. Mond 1,211
  10. Donny 1,160
  11. Ealing 1,035
  12. Hartpury 960


Over 1000! Yeaaaling!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 17:26
Crowd numbers are very poor for whole league, and will no doubt be worse with Newcastle and Ampthill in the league next season. Can the clubs work harder to build fan base, or us there simply not the demand for championship rugby?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Joy of (Level) 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 17:53
I think the problem is, and always will be, that rugby is simply a minority sport. Unfortunately the powers that be have failed to acknowledge that in their ‘vision’ of the professional game. At all levels it requires financial support from local businesses and benefactors, and the higher-up the ladder you go, the greater that support needs to be.

The encouraging thing is that in some areas lower-level rugby seems to be doing quite well in terms of support. In my locale Barnstaple must average around 700 per home game with sides like Launceston and Okehampton not too far behind.

Edited by The Joy of (Level) 7 - 29 Apr 2019 at 17:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 18:12
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

I think the problem is, and always will be, that rugby is simply a minority sport. Unfortunately the powers that be have failed to acknowledge that in their ‘vision’ of the professional game. At all levels it requires financial support from local businesses and benefactors, and the higher-up the ladder you go, the greater that support needs to be.

The encouraging thing is that in some areas lower-level rugby seems to be doing quite well in terms of support. In my locale Barnstaple must average around 700 per home game with sides like Launceston and Okehampton not too far behind.


Those are terrific attendance figures I guess around Devon, Rugby is a majority sport.
Sorry about the playoffs but with that support you will be back
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 18:25
P.s. my post was not sarcastic. Happy to see Ealing over 1k and not bottom of attendance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 18:41
Originally posted by WINGER14 WINGER14 wrote:

There's certainly a mystery involved around the attendance figure at the Irish / Ealing game. On here posters claim their copy has read 2050 or 5020.
I bought my copy in Leeds and can say with 100% certainty that it gives the attendance figure as ---- 5070.


Here in the Heart of sunny England my copy said 2050.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 19:00
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Originally posted by WINGER14 WINGER14 wrote:

There's certainly a mystery involved around the attendance figure at the Irish / Ealing game. On here posters claim their copy has read 2050 or 5020.
I bought my copy in Leeds and can say with 100% certainty that it gives the attendance figure as ---- 5070.


Here in the Heart of sunny England my copy said 2050.
 

Ditto in the Thames Valley (well, Cherwell, but close enough)
keep the faith
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