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The Scrummage Refereeing - Event Date: 23 Feb 2020

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 19:17
and what about the tap tackle - no arms involved
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 08:08
Fair comment but leave Rugby League out of it.In RU if the ball is not straight then as far as I am aware that is a penalty.

I'm not sure when the "licence to feed" law was adopted but it seems to me its all about getting he ball back into play.

Of course getting the ball back into play quickly was the reason why the Nothern Union dispensed with the line out and "wing forwards".The paying spectators wanted action back in the day.

As an aside all the anti League comments on his forum make me smile given the current focus on the payment of players!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seagoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 18:28
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

Fair comment but leave Rugby League out of it.In RU if the ball is not straight then as far as I am aware that is a penalty.

I'm not sure when the "licence to feed" law was adopted but it seems to me its all about getting he ball back into play.

Of course getting the ball back into play quickly was the reason why the Nothern Union dispensed with the line out and "wing forwards".The paying spectators wanted action back in the day.

As an aside all the anti League comments on his forum make me smile given the current focus on the payment of players!


You said "Leave Rugby League out of it", but you went on to mention it TWICE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 18:43
I'll rise to the challenge Seagoon - I accept that as far as scrummaging is concerned feeding has been part of the RL game as long as I can remember. For all but the last 5 (?) years putting the ball in straight was an integral part of the Union game - now it isn't but I'm not sure that RL had anything to do with it.

My two references to RL were intended to be asides designed to encourage debate - apologies I probably could have been more precise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seagoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 23:03
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

I'll rise to the challenge Seagoon - I accept that as far as scrummaging is concerned feeding has been part of the RL game as long as I can remember. For all but the last 5 (?) years putting the ball in straight was an integral part of the Union game - now it isn't but I'm not sure that RL had anything to do with it.

My two references to RL were intended to be asides designed to encourage debate - apologies I probably could have been more precise.


Apology accepted, Bigmal

I played at tighthead , way back in the 1960's/70's, and I loathe and detest the current feeding (No other word for it)

People may call me a dinosaur, and I'll happily accept that description
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 08:05
Seagoon. We are everywhere. We just want the came to be played as per the Laws
another one against the head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 09:59
For sure its worse now than ever but clever scrummies have always feed the ball
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Old Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 12:05
Greetings posters I trust you and yours are all well.

Those who read Rugby Paper will have seen the piece where Nigel Ownens is calling for the return of straight feeds to the scrum. EXCUSE me is he not in charge of games with all the other refs at all levels who can see the Lovely feeds and do nothing about it. He is the one who can change it but does F...A..
Hypocrite.

That's better saves me having to go for an hours walk
another one against the head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 12:54
Originally posted by Old Hooker Old Hooker wrote:

Greetings posters I trust you and yours are all well.

Those who read Rugby Paper will have seen the piece where Nigel Ownens is calling for the return of straight feeds to the scrum. EXCUSE me is he not in charge of games with all the other refs at all levels who can see the Lovely feeds and do nothing about it. He is the one who can change it but does F...A..
Hypocrite.

That's better saves me having to go for an hours walk
Sadly its not Nigel who decides if its straight or not, World Rugby have said there's a metre gap it must go "straight" down - thus it always looks crooked as one side of a metre to the other is a big angle.

He is saying that he wants rugby to observe some obvious laws as opposed to legal arguments on every decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 14:26
Originally posted by Cannon Cannon wrote:

Originally posted by Old Hooker Old Hooker wrote:

Greetings posters I trust you and yours are all well.

Those who read Rugby Paper will have seen the piece where Nigel Ownens is calling for the return of straight feeds to the scrum. EXCUSE me is he not in charge of games with all the other refs at all levels who can see the Lovely feeds and do nothing about it. He is the one who can change it but does F...A..
Hypocrite.

That's better saves me having to go for an hours walk
Sadly its not Nigel who decides if its straight or not, World Rugby have said there's a metre gap it must go "straight" down - thus it always looks crooked as one side of a metre to the other is a big angle.

He is saying that he wants rugby to observe some obvious laws as opposed to legal arguments on every decision.


It is supposed to go in straight down the tunnel, to the side that is putting it in but I front of the hookers foot so he has to strike. This is roughly how it started but, like most law changes/new initiatives, it is usually ignored as it goes in straight behind the
E hooker to the second row..

Have to agree with OH - Nigel Owens has it in his own hands to penalise under current laws.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 16:36
I would love to see what would happen if you were to actually apply the laws.
Personally I think you might get a better game.

If it turns out it is much worse, then perhaps we should rewrite the laws so eveyone knows what is and is not legal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 18:35
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I would love to see what would happen if you were to actually apply the laws.
Personally I think you might get a better game.

If it turns out it is much worse, then perhaps we should rewrite the laws so eveyone knows what is and is not legal.


Ok, I have for more than 15 years said there should be TWO sets of LAWS, one for the fully professional game and one for the rest ...

Many years ago, I refereed a game at Welford Road between Tigers and somebody else, during the game, I think I gave 33/34 penalties, 98% were accurate and after the game, I was "chased" down the players tunnel by the then CEO, one Peter Wheeler, who informed me to my retreating back, "19,000 people haven't come here to watch you give 34 penalties" ... so the moral of the story, that the game can be REFEREED as per the laws but spectators, sponsors and other stakeholders WANT to SEE the ball IN PLAY MORE .....who would be a referee! That is why the modern referee, tries where he can to keep the penalty count to between 18 - 22 per game ... I repeat what I said earlier in the thread, the put in at level 3 and below, it's miles ahead of the professional game ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 19:09
It's also not that difficult to enforce - if the feed is crooked at the first scrum get it penalised and then the players know exactly what to expect for the rest of the game
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 20:23
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

It's also not that difficult to enforce - if the feed is crooked at the first scrum get it penalised and then the players know exactly what to expect for the rest of the game


Or even better, tell the captains pre-match that you will penalise crooked feeds - then they can have no come-back when penalised.

I don't like the penalty quota per game as suggested by CN - if it's a penalty it's a penalty all game every game.

The way to get a free flowing game is to strictly police the offside laws
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 21:49
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

It's also not that difficult to enforce - if the feed is crooked at the first scrum get it penalised and then the players know exactly what to expect for the rest of the game


Or even better, tell the captains pre-match that you will penalise crooked feeds - then they can have no come-back when penalised.

I don't like the penalty quota per game as suggested by CN - if it's a penalty it's a penalty all game every game.

The way to get a free flowing game is to strictly police the offside laws


It's not a quota but it's what they like to get to, if they can ....
"if it's a penalty it's a penalty all game every game", then you would have a lot more penalties per game, there are so many transgressions of the law, many, many of them marginal, they try and get the CLEAR and OBVIOUS, that I would suggest is the skill of the modern referee in the PROFESSIONAL game ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 16:36
Good point about offside - that is the area that people could look at as it may(?) result in more clean line breaks as opposed to taking contact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Old Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 17:13
Clive
May I take you back to the mid 70s when you were a regular at the Varsity match.
76 & 77. I was with "The Club" Twice I played against Northampton who had a wonderful Tight head Peter Enevoldsen, not sure of spelling, who skippered Oxford on 3 matches on the trot. He was compact and very strong. he took us low, but my tight head Andy Trotter recent past Pres of TJs was equal to the task. I was about 13 stone and supple as were we all in those days. Foot position of all front rows prevented collapses , most of the time. Ball in channelled move on. I know the game has changed and I tend to live in the past , But it can be done still if the rules are enforced at all levels , which will require the coaches and front rows to learn from the past. It was not all that bad.

Peter Qualified as a Neuro Surgeon I believe. Not bad for a prop

I have been indoors too long

Good Health to all
another one against the head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 18:29
oops Trotter loose head
another one against the head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2020 at 13:40
Back in the 80's I spent a week at Rugby School on an RFU coaching course which involved spending what seemed like an eternity one day as loose head prop v an old school scrummaging machine ( solid timber and a bit of foam). I was a centre by choice.

3 different hookers were used David Protherough( Cheltenham and Moseley) ,John Cholova ( I think - a master at QEGS Wakefield) and a member of the coaching team who played for Birmingham ( I cant remember his name). All had different styles and were physically different - ALL could hook the ball , were flexible and new how a scrum worked. I learned a lot.

Perhaps we could introduce some form of refresher course?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2020 at 14:15
I think we would be starting from SCRATCH Big Mal
another one against the head
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