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The next Exeter

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isleonian View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 18:48
At the request of OldNick this is a new thread simply wondering which might be the next club to follow Exeter's rise and success?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dropout22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 18:53
Could be Ealing Trailfinders, with the financial backing they have. Issue really is Crowds & lack of care/support for the team. 

Plymouth have a great following, just seem to be struggling on pitch. 

Moseley look strong now. DMP have a great base to work from. I'd say Pirates from a holistic viewpoint - fan base/financials/on pitch. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 19:37
I would love to see Doncaster throw their hat in the ring, however we need to get our supporter base up significantly and I am not sure that is feasible. The facilities are pretty good and wouldn’t need much more development to make that feasible.

Ealing could do it without the fan base, but would likely find a few thousand more, and the increased gates from all the London derby matches would boost the gate income. So are likely strong candidates. Their ground currently may be an inhibitor of making it a permanent thing.

The Pirates have great potential too, with gates to support once they move to Truro. And the potential to recruit players from local stock is there.

Coventry could do it too, they only have WASPS nearby to really contend with for regarding supporter base - Worcester perhaps. Those two match day gates would/should have the ground bursting at the seams. Their ground development has great potential.

Jersey? I don’t know if their location is an issue…..

Looking down the pyramid there are a few who, with the right investment could do the trick. 

If the lockout of equitable funding in the Prem is resolved then the top 4 in the Championship may all have some chance of a shout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 07:57
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

I would love to see Doncaster throw their hat in the ring, however we need to get our supporter base up significantly and I am not sure that is feasible. The facilities are pretty good and wouldn’t need much more development to make that feasible.

Ealing could do it without the fan base, but would likely find a few thousand more, and the increased gates from all the London derby matches would boost the gate income. So are likely strong candidates. Their ground currently may be an inhibitor of making it a permanent thing.

The Pirates have great potential too, with gates to support once they move to Truro. And the potential to recruit players from local stock is there.

Coventry could do it too, they only have WASPS nearby to really contend with for regarding supporter base - Worcester perhaps. Those two match day gates would/should have the ground bursting at the seams. Their ground development has great potential.

Jersey? I don’t know if their location is an issue…..

Looking down the pyramid there are a few who, with the right investment could do the trick. 

If the lockout of equitable funding in the Prem is resolved then the top 4 in the Championship may all have some chance of a shout.
Leicester were taking large numbers of Cov fans long before Wuss and Gasworks RFC were even in the picture. Still do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 08:21
Leeds
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 08:27
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Leeds

Looks like Leeds are struggling in Nat 1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 08:50
The next Exeter will come when the Premiership money men allow them to. That hypocritical Minimum Standards Criteria is their failsafe to ensure any upstarts stay in their place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donnyknightfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 09:08
I think Pirates definitely have the fanbase to be a Premiership side. The thing that is holding them back at the moment is the new stadium (the lack of). I think Doncaster definitely have the facilities for Premiership rugby. Castle Park wouldn’t have to be renovated much to meet the criteria. Our crowds are a bit of a problem but when we reached the play-off final in 2016 we were getting crowds above 4,000. The support is there, it’s just that it’s dormant most of the time!. Unlike some people I actually think we would sell out the ground for Premiership games if we ever got there. Our ground is better than a lot of Premiership stadiums. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 09:52
Originally posted by Donnyknightfan Donnyknightfan wrote:

I think Pirates definitely have the fanbase to be a Premiership side. 
Unfortunately I think this may be incorrect. I would love to see Pirates or for that matter Donny have a go in the Premiership but I have serious doubts as to whether they would attract support when they start to lose more games than they win. The best model in recent times is surely Bristol Bears and they had the two magic ingredients of almost unlimited financial support from their owner and a huge latent support base. Ealing seem to have one of these magic ingredients - Cov probably have the other one. 
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 10:05
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Donnyknightfan Donnyknightfan wrote:

I think Pirates definitely have the fanbase to be a Premiership side. 
Unfortunately I think this may be incorrect. I would love to see Pirates or for that matter Donny have a go in the Premiership but I have serious doubts as to whether they would attract support when they start to lose more games than they win. The best model in recent times is surely Bristol Bears and they had the two magic ingredients of almost unlimited financial support from their owner and a huge latent support base. Ealing seem to have one of these magic ingredients - Cov probably have the other one. 

then the answer's surely clear, Coventry Trailfinders! Playing somewhere between the two, High Wycombe for example.... 

I will now get my coat, though not before thanking Mr Dropout most sincerely for giving me a good laugh this morning at the idea that Mose could be the next Exeter. For a few seasons I was more worried about our ability to be the current Moseley... On the other hand, near on 1000 through the gates last Saturday, and, as ever, the fundamentals are right. There's just a horror of spending money  and getting into debt (understandably) after what happened at the turn of the century - we get by on just enough, when more than enough is what you need.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkermentality Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 10:21
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Could be Ealing Trailfinders, with the financial backing they have. Issue really is Crowds & lack of care/support for the team. 

What is the "lack of care/support issue at Ealing?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 10:56
Originally posted by Bunkermentality Bunkermentality wrote:

Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Could be Ealing Trailfinders, with the financial backing they have. Issue really is Crowds & lack of care/support for the team. 

What is the "lack of care/support issue at Ealing?"

I interpreted that as just a lack of care and support for Ealing in the community. I do wonder if/when they get to the Prem what kind of crowds they could expect. They managed c. 4000 for the Championship Cup final against Irish with about a 60:40 split in Ealing's favor. I would suspect that the games against the other London clubs (provided that Ealing can find a stadium in West London), would pull in at least that for the first season through visiting fans. Games against Bristol and Newcastle in recent years brought in about 2000, even in quite poor weather. Not sure how the community would get behind the team in the topflight, but it would have to be better than now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldNick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 14:42
I think one of the issues with predicting London clubs for Premiership success is that support-wise their total support is less than the sum of the parts.

By which I mean that visiting London clubs with Coventry in both National One and the Championship it was very clear that a sizeable part of the home support, except at London Welsh, was supporting the London club that was at home that week, rather than being fully committed home supporters of any particular  club.

That is if course not to say all supporters, but enough to be very noticeable.

So, what would happen with Ealing? Would promotion help them pull those people out to wherever in West London (or High Wycome ;-) they played? Or, would increased ticket prices, Premiership beer and catering bills.  and mud table mediocrity result in those supporters drifting off to see whichever club was winning at home more frequently?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 14:54
Originally posted by OldNick OldNick wrote:

I think one of the issues with predicting London clubs for Premiership success is that support-wise their total support is less than the sum of the parts.

By which I mean that visiting London clubs with Coventry in both National One and the Championship it was very clear that a sizeable part of the home support, except at London Welsh, was supporting the London club that was at home that week, rather than being fully committed home supporters of any particular  club.

That is if course not to say all supporters, but enough to be very noticeable.

So, what would happen with Ealing? Would promotion help them pull those people out to wherever in West London (or High Wycome ;-) they played? Or, would increased ticket prices, Premiership beer and catering bills.  and mud table mediocrity result in those supporters drifting off to see whichever club was winning at home more frequently?

Totally agree (especially about LW being the exception) however I don't think it's just a London thing - I'd be interested to know how many of the same Birmingham faces pop up at Leicester, Wasps and Worcester, for example, depending on who's at home. I know a few that do Worcester or Wasps on that basis and one that does Wasps and Leicester.

You could argue that they're the floating rugby fans who've drifted away from Moseley since the 1990s, and in a couple of cases you'd be right, but I think it's more the draw of match day spectacle. Whether the appearance of premiership rugby in Birmingham would cause them to desert the other clubs in favour of commitment to that side only I don't know.

I was as guilty of it as the next person I suppose, given that living in Oxford I watched Welsh when they played in Oxford but I haven't followed them back to ODP. I'd have watched Glaws in Oxford if it had been them. It helped that they played on a Sunday of course, so I wasn't forced to choose between premiership rugby fights for survival with LW and Championship fights for survival with Mose...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rothman2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 17:25
There won’t be another one. Not a chance. 

The only possibility could be Cornish Pirates, judging from the hoards who followed them in the County Championship.




Edited by Rothman2 - 17 Sep 2021 at 17:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 17:36
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by OldNick OldNick wrote:

I think one of the issues with predicting London clubs for Premiership success is that support-wise their total support is less than the sum of the parts.

By which I mean that visiting London clubs with Coventry in both National One and the Championship it was very clear that a sizeable part of the home support, except at London Welsh, was supporting the London club that was at home that week, rather than being fully committed home supporters of any particular  club.

That is if course not to say all supporters, but enough to be very noticeable.

So, what would happen with Ealing? Would promotion help them pull those people out to wherever in West London (or High Wycome ;-) they played? Or, would increased ticket prices, Premiership beer and catering bills.  and mud table mediocrity result in those supporters drifting off to see whichever club was winning at home more frequently?

Totally agree (especially about LW being the exception) however I don't think it's just a London thing - I'd be interested to know how many of the same Birmingham faces pop up at Leicester, Wasps and Worcester, for example, depending on who's at home. I know a few that do Worcester or Wasps on that basis and one that does Wasps and Leicester.

You could argue that they're the floating rugby fans who've drifted away from Moseley since the 1990s, and in a couple of cases you'd be right, but I think it's more the draw of match day spectacle. Whether the appearance of premiership rugby in Birmingham would cause them to desert the other clubs in favour of commitment to that side only I don't know.

I was as guilty of it as the next person I suppose, given that living in Oxford I watched Welsh when they played in Oxford but I haven't followed them back to ODP. I'd have watched Glaws in Oxford if it had been them. It helped that they played on a Sunday of course, so I wasn't forced to choose between premiership rugby fights for survival with LW and Championship fights for survival with Mose...


I'm up for an experiment.
There'll be a pretty decent stadium available in N. Brum after the Commonwealth Games. Do you reckon Birmingham City Council would offer W*sps an even sweeter deal than Cov City Council offered them for the Ricoh? I mean, it'd have to be genuine bargain basement, handful of peanuts territory to beat that, but...
No?
Just wishful thinking then...
Ah well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 19:30
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by OldNick OldNick wrote:

I think one of the issues with predicting London clubs for Premiership success is that support-wise their total support is less than the sum of the parts.

By which I mean that visiting London clubs with Coventry in both National One and the Championship it was very clear that a sizeable part of the home support, except at London Welsh, was supporting the London club that was at home that week, rather than being fully committed home supporters of any particular  club.

That is if course not to say all supporters, but enough to be very noticeable.

So, what would happen with Ealing? Would promotion help them pull those people out to wherever in West London (or High Wycome ;-) they played? Or, would increased ticket prices, Premiership beer and catering bills.  and mud table mediocrity result in those supporters drifting off to see whichever club was winning at home more frequently?

Totally agree (especially about LW being the exception) however I don't think it's just a London thing - I'd be interested to know how many of the same Birmingham faces pop up at Leicester, Wasps and Worcester, for example, depending on who's at home. I know a few that do Worcester or Wasps on that basis and one that does Wasps and Leicester.

You could argue that they're the floating rugby fans who've drifted away from Moseley since the 1990s, and in a couple of cases you'd be right, but I think it's more the draw of match day spectacle. Whether the appearance of premiership rugby in Birmingham would cause them to desert the other clubs in favour of commitment to that side only I don't know.

I was as guilty of it as the next person I suppose, given that living in Oxford I watched Welsh when they played in Oxford but I haven't followed them back to ODP. I'd have watched Glaws in Oxford if it had been them. It helped that they played on a Sunday of course, so I wasn't forced to choose between premiership rugby fights for survival with LW and Championship fights for survival with Mose...


I'm up for an experiment.
There'll be a pretty decent stadium available in N. Brum after the Commonwealth Games. Do you reckon Birmingham City Council would offer W*sps an even sweeter deal than Cov City Council offered them for the Ricoh? I mean, it'd have to be genuine bargain basement, handful of peanuts territory to beat that, but...
No?
Just wishful thinking then...
Ah well.

I'd say you were welcome to them but I don't believe that. Basically they're not welcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 19:37
I'll also say that the worst occasions of that mad LW Championship season in Oxford (between the two prem ones) were the matches against Moseley. It was difficult with my LW friends to be in a different scarf for the day, but they were very understanding to be fair that on those occasions I was with my first love.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 20:35
What could happen is a poorly performing side currently in the Premiership could go belly up and leave some gaping holes, I'm looking at those on the brink of bankruptcy who with the loss of a cash provider could find themselves in free fall.........................bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 22:25
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

What could happen is a poorly performing side currently in the Premiership could go belly up and leave some gaping holes, I'm looking at those on the brink of bankruptcy who with the loss of a cash provider could find themselves in free fall.........................bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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