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The dragon becomes a phoenix

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Kimbo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 11:01
I'll still take our promotion over yours Mark, whenever it comes Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 12:09
But London Welsh are moving from the narrow confines of county rugby in the Herts/Mddx leagues to the wide vistas of divisional rugby in the London North West 3. 

Think of the extra distances they need to travel. 

And with one more promotion they could be in London North-West 2. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 20:51
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

But London Welsh are moving from the narrow confines of county rugby in the Herts/Mddx leagues to the wide vistas of divisional rugby in the London North West 3. 

Think of the extra distances they need to travel. 

And with one more promotion they could be in London North-West 2. 

Let's see how they do against the might of St. Albans and Old Merchant Taylors! And the year after, their RFU cup ban is lifted....


Edited by Robb - 13 Mar 2018 at 20:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 16:43
Promotion was confirmed at 4:20 yesterday following a 30-15 win in a very niggly game against Bank of England.  Bank had three yellows - two for their openside, and two for backchat - but they did score the first points we have conceded in five and a half hours of rugby.  That's fifteen consecutive bonus point wins since our defeat at UCSOBs in September, 89 points from a possible 95 with three games remaining, 118 tries and 740 points scored.  The title will be ours if we beat Actonians - coached by former London Welsh & Bedford flanker Florent Rossigneux - at ODP on Saturday.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 18:51
Well done Welsh . . . what level will you be playing next year? And is the squad good enough to blitz straight through again?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 20:06
Next year is Level 8 - London 3NW.  From what we've heard (from referees who officiate at various different levels), the next step up is very similar to what we've been used to next year.  There's a bigger step-up to Level 7, but by no means insurmountable.  But we are planning to strengthen - the profile of the club now means that Welshmen playing at a higher level in the south-east are prepared to step down two or three levels to play for us.  It means a lot more to players to represent the first team than to be a member of a 'junior' team at a big club.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2018 at 22:35
Another win, away at Royston, who are also promoted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 08:10
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

We haven't conceded a single point in five hours of rugby.  Rearranged game v Bank on Saturday at which promotion can be confirmed.  As long as we get promoted before Cov... Wink

On another thread there is a poster on here who refers to how uneven the the `playing field` is in Rugby at all levels . 

In my opinion it seems a tad unfair that a club who takes voluntary liquidation owing hundreds of thousands to the inland revenue and owing players and staff money are allowed to continue at all. 

The mismanagement and the consequences  goes against everything I believe Rugby stands for.

Posters on here appear to be boasting about the scorelines against small clubs who do manage their finances against all odds and yet still survive. Smashing London French 90 to nil . Seriously what does that have to do with Rugby ?.

In my opinion London Welsh should keep a low profile and not boast about shooting through the leagues and returning to where they were. 
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 09:02
You are aware that the amateurs existed before the pro team went bust?  They were set-up - just like the amateurs of Saracens, Wasps, Harlequins London Irish - to be a completely separate entity from the professional arm.  To be a proper rugby club, with an amateur ethos.  These players pay to play, just like every other club in the division.  Two of the current first team have been with the club since the amateurs were formed in 2010; four more came through the minis; and roughly half of the regular matchday 18 were with us last season.  The difference we have now is that Welshmen who have been playing at a higher level are stepping down to play for the first team, whereas before they weren't interested in playing for a junior team in a pro club.  Two of the forwards dropped from London One North to play in Herts & Middlesex One, and our scrum-half on Saturday was a 36 year-old ex-Wales U21 fly-half who played for the first team between 2002 and 2007 and came out of retirement to offer his support for the club.

No financial mismanagement, but around 150 patrons, another 300+ regular members, crowds averaging around 300 (highest was 700), pre-match meals for 150 sold out every week, and plenty of income in the bar and the club shop - but the rent at ODP equates to over £1k per week.  In the run-up to every away game our chairman gets a call from the opposition chairman asking how many fans we will bring and how many barrels they should get in.  Everyone has benefited from our away support - how many level nine clubs enjoy up to 200 away fans in their clubhouse?

The difference now is that everybody's pulling together.  We all volunteer - I write the programme, one of the directors mans the shop, another does the PA, our chairman is at the cash-and-carry first thing on Saturday to get supplies for the lunch.  That ex-first team player who wanted to help out by pulling on his boots.  There were pictures on Twitter a few months ago of Sonny Parker sweeping the away changing room at Barnet after the game.  Just like any other junior rugby club.  No airs and graces, just honest people putting in a lot of hard work and enjoying it.  We have ambitions to get back to London Premier (level five) within five years.  Nothing wrong with that - see your signature.

Final point - there isn't a lot of joy on the Championship chatboard these days.  I'm reading a lot of people worrying about the state of the professional game.  The prophets of doom will tell you that your club is going to be the next to plunge into the abyss.  Worcester have just announced losses of £8.1m.  Richmond and London Scottish have been where we are and made it back, but I'm sure they will tell you how much they enjoyed those seasons in the regional leagues they worked their way up.  We're having a great time - the clubs, the people, the fact that the players are so overwhelmed by, and appreciative of, playing in front of big, noisy crowds.  I make no apologies for enjoying it.  The win at Bank will go down in London Welsh folklore as one of the best days in living memory.  We're not crowing - we're just having more fun than we've had in years.  And that's not because we're sticking 90-odd points on the likes of London French.  It's because the likes of London French come along, play their part, never let their heads drop.  They enjoy their rugby; they enjoy their day, they enjoy a few beers afterwards.  That's what it's about - enjoyment.  Proper rugby clubs, proper rugby people.


Edited by Mark W-J - 09 Apr 2018 at 10:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sedge Tiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 12:05
Mark

It is great to hear that London Welsh are baring up well, and things are looking brighter for the future. I for one have many, many great memories of Old Deer Park and wonderful hospitality of Welsh.

Well done to all the volunteers for keeping the club alive.ClapClapClapClapClap

All the best

ST




Edited by Sedge Tiger - 09 Apr 2018 at 12:06
Give him one with handles on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 12:30
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

You are aware that the amateurs existed before the pro team went bust?  They were set-up - just like the amateurs of Saracens, Wasps, Harlequins London Irish - to be a completely separate entity from the professional arm.  To be a proper rugby club, with an amateur ethos.  These players pay to play, just like every other club in the division.  Two of the current first team have been with the club since the amateurs were formed in 2010; four more came through the minis; and roughly half of the regular matchday 18 were with us last season.  The difference we have now is that Welshmen who have been playing at a higher level are stepping down to play for the first team, whereas before they weren't interested in playing for a junior team in a pro club.  Two of the forwards dropped from London One North to play in Herts & Middlesex One, and our scrum-half on Saturday was a 36 year-old ex-Wales U21 fly-half who played for the first team between 2002 and 2007 and came out of retirement to offer his support for the club.

No financial mismanagement, but around 150 patrons, another 300+ regular members, crowds averaging around 300 (highest was 700), pre-match meals for 150 sold out every week, and plenty of income in the bar and the club shop - but the rent at ODP equates to over £1k per week.  In the run-up to every away game our chairman gets a call from the opposition chairman asking how many fans we will bring and how many barrels they should get in.  Everyone has benefited from our away support - how many level nine clubs enjoy up to 200 away fans in their clubhouse?

The difference now is that everybody's pulling together.  We all volunteer - I write the programme, one of the directors mans the shop, another does the PA, our chairman is at the cash-and-carry first thing on Saturday to get supplies for the lunch.  That ex-first team player who wanted to help out by pulling on his boots.  There were pictures on Twitter a few months ago of Sonny Parker sweeping the away changing room at Barnet after the game.  Just like any other junior rugby club.  No airs and graces, just honest people putting in a lot of hard work and enjoying it.  We have ambitions to get back to London Premier (level five) within five years.  Nothing wrong with that - see your signature.

Final point - there isn't a lot of joy on the Championship chatboard these days.  I'm reading a lot of people worrying about the state of the professional game.  The prophets of doom will tell you that your club is going to be the next to plunge into the abyss.  Worcester have just announced losses of £8.1m.  Richmond and London Scottish have been where we are and made it back, but I'm sure they will tell you how much they enjoyed those seasons in the regional leagues they worked their way up.  We're having a great time - the clubs, the people, the fact that the players are so overwhelmed by, and appreciative of, playing in front of big, noisy crowds.  I make no apologies for enjoying it.  The win at Bank will go down in London Welsh folklore as one of the best days in living memory.  We're not crowing - we're just having more fun than we've had in years.  And that's not because we're sticking 90-odd points on the likes of London French.  It's because the likes of London French come along, play their part, never let their heads drop.  They enjoy their rugby; they enjoy their day, they enjoy a few beers afterwards.  That's what it's about - enjoyment.  Proper rugby clubs, proper rugby people.

Seriously? One of best days in living memory is putting 90-odd points on a hopelessly outclassed team?

Each to their own but it wouldn't have been one of mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pistacio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 12:35
Out of interest, why did the two forwards drop from London 1 North to play for you? What was the incentive?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 12:37
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Seriously? One of best days in living memory is putting 90-odd points on a hopelessly outclassed team?

Each to their own but it wouldn't have been one of mine.

No, the last minute penalty to beat previously unbeaten Bank of England in an edge-of-your-seat-if-there-had-been-any-seats cliffhanger was.


Edited by Mark W-J - 09 Apr 2018 at 12:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 13:03
Originally posted by Pistacio Pistacio wrote:

Out of interest, why did the two forwards drop from London 1 North to play for you? What was the incentive?

Well, I'm guessing that you know who they are Wink

The second row moved because both clubs share a physio, and this gentleman told the player at the beginning of last summer that London Welsh were on the comeback, and basically did a great job of selling the goals and vision.  It just so happened that this coincided with the player moving close to the Richmond area, so he says he was really keen to get involved.  This player then convinced his front row teammate that any Welsh connection - however tenuous - was good enough for him to also join the ODP revolution, and the colleague followed him down.

I know, it sounds too good to be true - but those are the answers they gave in the interviews for the programme.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pistacio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 13:23
fair enough. a good pair of lads and its always nice to be part of something special. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 14:47
Any thoughts for the rugby club who miss out on promotion due to London Welsh being forced into their league. Although only for one season and you can denign another team promotion in the league above.

Is there any plan to pay back the money owed to the Government or players who never got paid their salary for playing rugby for London Welsh ......professionals !
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 15:04
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Any thoughts for the rugby club who miss out on promotion due to London Welsh being forced into their league. Although only for one season and you can denign another team promotion in the league above.

Sorry, what league are we being forced into?
 
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Is there any plan to pay back the money owed to the Government or players who never got paid their salary for playing rugby for London Welsh ......professionals !

If you look back to the posts on here and other boards from December 2016/ January 2017 you'll see that nobody was comfortable with the way that the pro club went out of business and the business decisions that were taken.  But - and I appreciate that you're struggling with this fairly basic concept - London Welsh Amateurs were a completely separate club.  They were set-up precisely because some members were uncomfortable with the professional direction that the first team was taking some 10-12 years ago, and they created a CASC.  And from that CASC they started a new club - which is the one that exists today.  Yes, they play in red shirts, and they are based at Old Deer Park - and these are the reasons that hundreds of people turn out each week to support them - but they have nothing to do with the poorly run professional outfit.

As for the players - there was a Just Giving page that collected over £40k when the professional club went out of business to ensure that the players weren't deprived of an income two weeks before Christmas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 15:23
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Any thoughts for the rugby club who miss out on promotion due to London Welsh being forced into their league. Although only for one season and you can denign another team promotion in the league above.

Is there any plan to pay back the money owed to the Government or players who never got paid their salary for playing rugby for London Welsh ......professionals !

I think a point should be made here in that London Welsh whom are playing in HM1 this season did not stop any club gaining promotion nor did they force their way in. They were already in this league as a quick check on matchbydivision will attest.
http://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/competitions/london-se-division/2016-2017/group/21323#/results

All that has happened here is that the professional club have been liquidated. London Welsh Amateur (which was defined by the RFU as a separate club) merely picked up the pieces and adopted the name of the old club.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Welsh_Amateur
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldNick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 15:35
...and in practical terms as with all such phoenix clubs, will for all time just be regarded as the old club in a new skin by the supporters of other clubs, whatever its legal status. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 16:18
But he says grinning, who were the correct club at the division Bell the volunteers and amateurs or the pie in the sky professionals 😬
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