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The Box Kick - Event Date: 08 Oct 2019

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tulip View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Calendar Event: The Box Kick
    Posted: 08 Oct 2019 at 08:00
I would love to see the statistics on what % of kicks win possession back to the kicking side.
For me you gain 25 metres but give possession away.
The kick absolutely has to be on the money. The defence can see 5 or 6 seconds when scrum half is going to launch one and the attacking player has a duty of care to the defence receiver.
I just don't get why you would want to give possession away so easily.

Edited by tulip - 08 Oct 2019 at 08:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2019 at 08:19
Probably the biggest source of mid air collisions and potential serious injury. I'd like to see them outlawed apart from within your own 22.
  
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Mark W-J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2019 at 09:04
There's a very good article on the Telegraph website (subscription only) about England's kicking game.
Apparently only Russia have kicked more than England and Wales in the opening three rounds, and there's a breakdown of all of England's 32 kicks against Argentina which analyses the effectiveness of each one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2019 at 10:01
Absolutely hate them with a passion, turns good possession into a lottery. Box kick Ben does my head in watching England. Should only be used as clearance to touch in 22.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 10:28
Well I think France Box kicked themselves out of the World Cup. I do not understand why Scrum halves will give possession away to the attacking side to gain 15 metres. You probably have 20%chance of gaining possession.
Plus I think Moriarty deserved a red card for his tackle around the head. It needs to be consistent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 11:07
Yep, shouldn't have been in the pitch, also could someone explain how the Welsh scrum half cannot be offside as the French player picks up at the scrum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 11:33
I thought Moriarty's challenge was shoulder-high and rolled up to the neck.  Was it high?  Yes.  Was there a high degree of danger?  No.  Therefore yellow is the reasonable outcome.

The offsides were a joke all night.  At least three times Wales had the ball at the back of a ruck and a Frenchman came flying out of the line just three or four yards away yet Mr Peyper let them wander back without penalising them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 12:26
Nah, straight to the head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 12:30
Yes can't argue with French red but with regards to Bundee Akis red that was unlucky but yes a red.
But Moriarty 's never rolled up to the head A red card
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 14:28
My initial view was that Moriarty tackled Fickou around the shoulders, but watching the replay I can see that his forearm did make contact with Fickou's jaw as he reached across. Still think a red would have been incredibly harsh, though, based upon the 'high degree of danger' criteria.

Interesting that the team of officials reached the decision quickly, there was no debate between the ref, touch judge and TMO, all three were in complete agreement. Also none of the commentary team suggested that Moriarty had been fortunate to just get a yellow, although I don't know what (if anything) was said about it at the interval as I was locked in a darkened room with my medication.

Edited by Mark W-J - 20 Oct 2019 at 14:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 15:35
Well let's be fair the officials backed each other MJ and the commentary team did not have a French
commentator 2 Welsh so I am not surprised there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 16:43
The officials don't always back one another - Garces overruled his TMO yesterday to disallow an Australian try. And while Shane Williams is unquestionably Welsh he's also been impartial enough as a pundit to call when Wales have been fortunate (as have Scott Hastings with the Scots, Quinlan with the Irish and Flats & Kay for England). Not sure whether Nick Mullins or Ben Kay was your second Welshman in the commentary box, but as far as I'm aware they're both English.

Just out of interest, why do you believe that it should have been a red card? As I've said, I don't believe it ticks all the boxes so would be interested to know why you think it does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 20:43
Garces was correct to overrule the T M O who made a very poor decision.

I was surprised the ref didn't ask wether the Welsh flanker was potentially offside when the ball was ripped to him as IMO he wasn't bound to the other players at the breakdown or behind the offside line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 08:07
Sorry Mark W-J I was referring to the commentators in the studio. On looking at it again you may be right.
Anyway justice was done because Warburton's sending off at last World Cup was never a red.

Edited by tulip - 21 Oct 2019 at 08:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 08:38
Cheers Tulip Thumbs Up  Sorry if I made a big issue of it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote French Connection Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2019 at 17:16
To return to the original subject of the box kick, there are a couple of things that are absolutely vital if any team is to win against NZ. The first is to put pressure on their set piece even if you don't dominate it, and the second and potentially more important is to get your kicking game right. Poor kicks which give NZ a counter attack opportunity are tantamount to suicide as they are the best in the world at this by a long way. When NZ kick, they often deliberately keep the ball in play in an attempt to force a return kick and produce a counter attack opportunity against a disrupted  chase. It works.
Eddie knows this very well and my guess is that we'll see a slightly different tactic from England this Saturday with most kicks aiming to find space and grass rather than being caught by NZ. 
In any case I've thought for many years now that there are far too many box kicks in the game at the moment. I give strict instructions to the sides I work with to limit their use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 14:15
Well the best Box kicking team won that semi final. But that was not the rugby as I know it . It was hard to watch.
England will
smash South Africa because they do not know how to play an expansive game.
Similarly the Wales v All Blacks game in the Play Off game. But when Wales did to get it outside they were dangerous
If I was a Welsh back apart from scrum half I would be devasted because all they did was field Garryowens or Box Kicks

Edited by tulip - 27 Oct 2019 at 14:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 17:26
Painful to watch from start to finish - only exciting because it was close and a World Cup semi. Box kick bingo - just hope we don't get sucked into a "scared to make a mistake" game next Saturday
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 17:55
Yes it was dire. Takes me back to the first Test I ever watched- All Blacks v Springboks at Newlands. In those days you could kick into touch from anywhere and a try was three points. ABs won 6-3 having been been beaten 13-0 in the first Test. That was 59 years ago. So the box kick has taken the place of those endless touch kicks. Both teams today were scared of losing. Both have good backs. Too much at stake I suppose. The final will be interesting. Remember England won with J. Wilkinson through kicking.
I thought England’s handling yesterday was the best I’ve ever seen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2019 at 20:00
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

There's a very good article on the Telegraph website (subscription only) about England's kicking game.
Apparently only Russia have kicked more than England and Wales in the opening three rounds, and there's a breakdown of all of England's 32 kicks against Argentina which analyses the effectiveness of each one.


Wales kicked the ball from hand 39 times in yesterdays dire world cup semi final. This is the highest amount of kicking by a Welsh team for nearly twenty years.

Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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