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Standard in London Premier

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Thatbloke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 21:32
I don't know the clubs involved but maybe Camberley already loaded up with adequate front row?
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Maskedchicken View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maskedchicken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 15:20
Originally posted by Rugby70 Rugby70 wrote:


As for this league and this season it is still a bit early to predict and we will have a better idea by 15 December, but I think Wimbledon will be the outright winners with Sidcup coming second. The Cup are putting together some good results and now with nearly a full strength squad fit they are going to be tough to beat. Shelford put a good performance in against S&E but I just don't see where their first win is going to come from. Chingford need to start training twice a week if they want to stay up. 





Interesting homer evaluation here Rugby70. Has there been much of a change in players since last season when Sidcup struggled and were lucky to survive? From what I have seen in person and from the results and speaking to other clubs mid table seems more likely.

As for training I wonder what quality training is at other clubs and how that correlated with league placing? Or is there more of a correlation with paid players?

Taking a few teams at the top and bottom of the league, work commitments in the City hamper Chingford and I’m not sure training twice a week would necessarily help if only 10 show up. I know Shelford invest in coaching and it shows in the player turnout but not the results. Guildford invest heavily in coaching and perhaps that shows this year but they have for a long time and results didn’t necessary correlate. Westcliff have always struggled for whatever reason but seem to be doing ok.
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Insignificant Tick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 15:31
Doesn't paying players include having to turn up for training ?
Shambolic attitude and serious squad divisions if it doesn't.
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Maskedchicken View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maskedchicken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 18:29
I’m sure it does. But of the teams that don’t pay players what is training like? Some train twice a week with good numbers, others twice a week with very few showing up and others once a week. I was referring to the post saying that Chingford need to train twice a week to have a chance of staying up and my thought was that others train twice a week but is it really a big advantage?
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Rugby70 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rugby70 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 22:24
Sidcup have for once got strength in depth and a back line unrecognisable from earlier games this season where they leaked points early in the game. They have an unbelievable coaching structure of ex-Sidcup players and a few others who are outstanding and average 45 players training Tuesday and Thursday for no money. Westcliff may well be the benchmark but Sidcup are not far behind. Sidcup have 6 massive games coming up and then we will know how good they are. The difference from paying players is the Sidcup bar on a Saturday night absolutely banged out with passionate rugby players from all levels of the club.
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SlippedThroughTheNet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SlippedThroughTheNet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 08:09
45 players? Wow. Well to answer MaskedChicken, perhaps that goes some way to proving that training does make a difference. At Westcliff we may get 25 but regularly get about 12. We have also had discussions about training once a week.
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Insignificant Tick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 08:37
Does any club stick to the "no train, no play" rule ?
Its always been stated but then players don't turn up and are selected over players that do turn up with no explanation given.
DOR's are very self serving in that respect as they'll be gone in a season or two but then so will the players that have been overlooked but the club has to survive.
Would anyone on this forum select a player who hasn't been training over a player who has even if the selected player is considered marginally better ?    

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SlippedThroughTheNet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 08:48
Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

Does any club stick to the "no train, no play" rule ?  



I don’t think that would be possible at Westcliff. It’s taken into consideration but work and family comes first and with so many working in the City somebody can’t be ‘punished’ if they are stuck at work until gone 6. Besides we rarely would get a full team at training and if we have three 10s there but no second rows in not volunteering to stick my head in there on a Saturday
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Insignificant Tick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 09:15
Agreed there will always be exceptions so it would be far more honest not to have the rule in the first place as it invariably gets broken when it suits the DOR and the players know where they stand.   
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WEvans View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 14:38
Originally posted by Cannon Cannon wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Cannon
45p per mile can be tempting - if your distances (6 x 50miles) are correct £135 per week
I don't know - just guessing!!!

Wouldn’t he have just stayed on the M3 and gone to Camberley who are openly saying they’re paying?

Maybe he tried and Camberley didn't want him?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maskedchicken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 00:24
Rugby70, I’d be interested to hear your take now? 5 wins from 10 with Wimbledon and Hertford away to come so possibly 5 wins from 12 (although weekly results always surprise)

Still think Sidcup will finish 2nd or happy to accept that mid table 5-9 is more likely?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rugby70 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 01:43
I still believe there is a lot more to come from Sidcup and yes I am still backing them for 2nd place. Dorking played very well and had some good runners and I would say from their performance last Saturday that they will be in the mix for a top 4 finish. Sidcup do have two tough away games on the bounce, so let’s enjoy this great league and see what happens! I am not eating my words just yet!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guildfordblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 11:46
Originally posted by Rugby70 Rugby70 wrote:

I still believe there is a lot more to come from Sidcup and yes I am still backing them for 2nd place. Dorking played very well and had some good runners and I would say from their performance last Saturday that they will be in the mix for a top 4 finish. Sidcup do have two tough away games on the bounce, so let’s enjoy this great league and see what happens! I am not eating my words just yet!

There is more chance of Shelford winning the league than there is of Sidcup finishing 2nd.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 12:33
Originally posted by Guildfordblue Guildfordblue wrote:

Originally posted by Rugby70 Rugby70 wrote:

I still believe there is a lot more to come from Sidcup and yes I am still backing them for 2nd place. Dorking played very well and had some good runners and I would say from their performance last Saturday that they will be in the mix for a top 4 finish. Sidcup do have two tough away games on the bounce, so let’s enjoy this great league and see what happens! I am not eating my words just yet!


There is more chance of Shelford winning the league than there is of Sidcup finishing 2nd.   


I seriously doubt that
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Blub View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 14:31
Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

Does any club stick to the "no train, no play" rule ?
Its always been stated but then players don't turn up and are selected over players that do turn up with no explanation given.
DOR's are very self serving in that respect as they'll be gone in a season or two but then so will the players that have been overlooked but the club has to survive.
Would anyone on this forum select a player who hasn't been training over a player who has even if the selected player is considered marginally better ?    



One would like to think that this is the case, but there are certainly players at clubs who are paid for the game on Saturday only.  It is worth remembering that there are now certain positions that have become very valuable, and some clubs are so desperate for quality (or even sometimes parity) in these positions that they will stretch away from the games more established traditions.

At a higher level than this too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SlippedThroughTheNet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 17:15
Interesting Blub. Are you referring to any clubs in particular? I can only imagine what one might feel like if they were at a Club for years, train often and miss out on selection to an import who doesn’t train and isn’t a “club man”.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guildfordblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 17:22
Originally posted by SlippedThroughTheNet SlippedThroughTheNet wrote:

Interesting Blub. Are you referring to any clubs in particular? I can only imagine what one might feel like if they were at a Club for years, train often and miss out on selection to an import who doesn’t train and isn’t a “club man”.

Happens everywhere, and is probably more common than people would like to think! 

Look at 2 clubs close to yourselves, Southend and Rochford.  How many of them are club men?! 

Westcliff however seem to be going the other way.  18/18 players had come through the m & j 's when you came to us a few weeks back.  Even if you did turn us over... ClapClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SlippedThroughTheNet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 17:44
Hi GuildfordBlue. I know the guys at Rochford and Southend well. Rochford will argue they are club men after going to Southend and going back “home” to Rochford. Southend are a team of journeymen barring a couple and wouldn’t dispute that. But at both clubs I think training is strong and all paid players turn up to every session.

I was surprised at someone saying paid players in key positions only turn out on a Saturday!

As for Westcliff and their policy....still 100% amateur and 17 out of the 18 this week came through the youth system. I’m surprised by the success but long may it continue. It shows what a bunch of mates can do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 17:51
Similar discussion being held on National One board about use of DR players. Club men fewer and fewer in higher leagues - except on the terraces.
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 17:59
Originally posted by SlippedThroughTheNet SlippedThroughTheNet wrote:

Interesting Blub. Are you referring to any clubs in particular? I can only imagine what one might feel like if they were at a Club for years, train often and miss out on selection to an import who doesn’t train and isn’t a “club man”.


Well yes, obviously this is based on my knowledge of particular players, but as I am not noting this in any pejorative way, I would not note the clubs.  It happens.

I take your point on the "club man", and this could well be the case.  However there are clubs who have long since departed from reliance on "club men", and this is not necessarily met with upset. 

Many players know their limits.  As an example, if a club raises it standard of play (organically or otherwise) to a level that exceeds the ability/aspirations of "club men", then it is entirely understandable that "club man" will accept playing in the 2's as it suits their individual needs from the club.

The truth is that a bunch of players who can lift a club out of one division are not necessarily the best players to retain the club in that position.  Some players will know this too.

Here is another scenario; Team gets promoted.  Larger team from higher league needs good players in certain positions so intices league winning players away to an even higher level.  Who replaces departed players?

Regular 2nd teamer, who is ok to cover the odd game in the 1's - but not at this higher level?  Getting on a bit - doesn't need that level of rugby for their Saturday afternoon fun.  Can't travel that far on Saturdays?

Club gets an "outsider" - can't train, but thats ok, because it means that "club man" doesn't have to travel to the end of Cornwall, or North London to get beaten up every other week.  Those days are gone.

Just an alternative view...

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