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Roll-up Roll-up its Circus Time

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everest View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote everest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 16:21
Camquin - lets hope that common sense prevails and of course everyone benefits not great where i am sat at this stage

great comments from all  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 16:36
wb, that would be case if this was 2015.

What is this Travel funding you speak of?

You do know clubs have to make a payment of players declaration, if they don't and they do (pay) the punishment can be relegation to the lowest of the low. 

Do I detect any irony in your statement?

Are Caldy (Nat 1) looking over their shoulders at er....... Anselmians (Level 7)? because I can't see anyone near you that fits your description.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 23:38
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

In the Northwest there is an issue with allowing 2nd XV into the leagues, Lancashire are 100% against and clubs at level 7 and below will not take part in RFU leagues if it happens (they already have their own leagues) but would re join the RFU leagues but not if 2nd XV were allowed. They believe that if Semi Pro clubs second XV joined they would attract players away from the smaller clubs, I am not sure how many players would be attracted as it only relates to 5 clubs at most. Another argument is that it would cause many miss matches , this already happens in the Northwest Norwiral 2nd XV premier league as there are only about 5-7 competitive teams and scores against some of the smaller clubs can be over 60 points with some over 100, this is not good for anyone. 

Second XV’s at clubs that pay being in the same division as first XV’s that don’t..................mmmmm I can’t see any issues there workerbee can you?

The one attraction clubs without big chequebooks have is they can say you can play first team and play at a decent standard of league rugby.  When that attraction is taken away as the big boys 2s are in the same league and climbing then you’ll see a lot of clubs struggle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 07:10
Just a question here - if a club is very fortunate to have two squads of players that are very good and have the ability to play at a very decent level of rugby then why should they have to deny their second string playing at a decent level and play in the leagues? Yes, if a club was to cynically switch players between their squads with no justification other than to artificially influence a league position one could see potential for dissatisfaction from other clubs, but surely there can be a method of regulating this?
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir_Q Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 09:02
Is the Australian solution such a bad idea? 1st XV leagues are exactly mirrored for 2's, 3's etc. All sides get to play the same opposition as the 1st XV, every other week when drawn at home becomes a club day with staggered kick offs etc. Far easier to manage and organise and if an oppo doesn't have a 3rd/4th etc then you find a friendly fixture or have a weekend off.
What i particularly liked about the Aussie format is that due to staggered kick off times, you'll always have enough players to fulfil the next fixture as players will play 50/60 mins for the 3's for instance and they then become the bench for the 2's and so on. Everyone gets to play and the club is being used for a large part of the day with a well supported 1st XV finale as the main event.


Edited by Sir_Q - 08 Apr 2021 at 09:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 09:29
Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Second XV’s at clubs that pay being in the same division as first XV’s that don’t..................mmmmm I can’t see any issues there workerbee can you?

In my (admittedly limited) experience, the clubs who are paying are usually 100% focussed on getting their 1st XV promoted, often to the detriment of the rest of the club.  When London Nigerians folded a couple of years ago, part of the problem was that they only had one team, so when they lost a chunk of their squad they had no more players to fall back on.

Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Just a question here - if a club is very fortunate to have two squads of players that are very good and have the ability to play at a very decent level of rugby then why should they have to deny their second string playing at a decent level and play in the leagues? Yes, if a club was to cynically switch players between their squads with no justification other than to artificially influence a league position one could see potential for dissatisfaction from other clubs, but surely there can be a method of regulating this?
This is a problem we've faced as we climb back up the leagues - the Merit Tables that the Druids complete in aren't competitive enough if we want a seamless transition between 2nd and 1st XV, which we need if we're going to operate a squad that's capable of getting us promoted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 09:59
This is why I do not see a problem with having a second 15 playing at a decent level - if they are able let them.
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 10:17
Because the Australian system works for 10 or 12 big clubs in each of the two main cities. All the good players move to those favoured clubs All the other clubs play in minor leagues and know they will lose their good players to the big clubs. It is exactly what the Lancashire clubs do not want.

It also relies on relitively short travel distances, good weather - so people are happy to sit around all day drinking beer and having a barbie. However, they still play short games to fit them all in. It is not designed for a freezing wet muddy January in Bolton with the sun not showing its face due to the clouds and setting about four o'clock.

It is also based on closed leagues. No prmotion or relegation. The top clubs in each state are all in the one big city and have short travel times between them. They only introduced a National league after cheap flights made it possible - and that was a city wide side - drawn from players at the clubs - so the equivalent of our county sides but paid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote French Connection Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 10:25
Here in the French Federal leagues (certainly Fed 2 and 3) the 2nd team play the same club as the 1st at the same venue. 2nd XV at 1.30pm, 1st XV at 3.00pm. Makes for a great day of rugby and no need to faff about with 2nd team fixtures. Clubs only have 2 teams and it's also obligatory to field a 2nd XV. A much better system in my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camp Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 10:30
CPK, I think you're looking at it from the perspective of a high level club wanting their lower fifteens to get more competative fixtures. There are many more clubs as you go lower down the pyramid who won't have those stronger second teams and are looking at it from the perspective of facing a good hiding from semi professional squads.

One problem to resolve would be the improvement of lower XV leagues across the Country. We are blessed in the North West with NOWIRUL, I'm not sure all other areas are.

CQ, I thought it was always sunny in Bolton ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote everest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 13:55
Don't shoot me but I have had an idea, why don't all clubs at level 6 and below get a fixture secretary who could phone around other fixture secretary's and organize local fixtures which control the destiny and ambition of your club. We could run a local cup competition at the same time. Obviously keep a long away day in there so that every other year players and supporter's can enjoy a beano to the seaside and a very late bus back. Obviously if you were to call the game off or lets say god forbid someone forgets to post the score through you wouldn't get fined or docked any points. Maybe some better friendships and long term associations could be made ???
madness maybe i know, sure it would never work but just a thought  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novocastrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 14:34
Originally posted by everest everest wrote:

Don't shoot me but I have had an idea, why don't all clubs at level 6 and below get a fixture secretary who could phone around other fixture secretary's and organize local fixtures which control the destiny and ambition of your club. We could run a local cup competition at the same time. Obviously keep a long away day in there so that every other year players and supporter's can enjoy a beano to the seaside and a very late bus back. Obviously if you were to call the game off or lets say god forbid someone forgets to post the score through you wouldn't get fined or docked any points. Maybe some better friendships and long term associations could be made ???
madness maybe i know, sure it would never work but just a thought  

BINGO!

Unfortunately, some 2nd XVs are far too strong for other 2nd XV counterparts - and my club have been on the wrong end of some 100 point defeats to National League 2nd XVs. It isn't an easy solution. 

At least, with fixture secretaries, they should try and arrange matches.

I've never understood the necessity for league fixtures for 2nd and 3rd XVs. It actually leads to more mismatches than an arranged fixture. Surely a competitive fixture and a good local cup competition is all that is needed. 

We're trying to bring back 'club days' where you arrange 1st-3rd/4th XV fixtures across the whole club on the same day. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 14:38
All of these posts are illustrating the complexity of delivering good rugby for lower XVs of stronger Clubs.

Having matching fixtures doesn’t work for Clubs at Level 2 where not everyone has more than one team. Even some at Level 3 might struggle.

Playing games consecutively happens already, if we have 2 home teams the other match kicks off earlier, especially in winter as we have only one floodlit pitch.

Some Clubs traditionally build up very strong squads below 1st XV, Richmond are an exception where their 2nd and 3rd XVs play in the top level of the London Reserve League, but there are other examples.

I suspect that since League entry for lower XVs is optional that many Clubs will not join and will stay in the Reserve Leagues they already have and then look to enhance the fixture list with midweek and floodlit matches. That is our current view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 14:41
Originally posted by everest everest wrote:

Don't shoot me but I have had an idea, why don't all clubs at level 2 and below get a fixture secretary who could phone around other fixture secretary's and organize local fixtures which control the destiny and ambition of your club. We could run a local cup competition at the same time. Obviously keep a long away day in there so that every other year players and supporter's can enjoy a beano to the seaside and a very late bus back. Obviously if you were to call the game off or lets say god forbid someone forgets to post the score through you wouldn't get fined or docked any points. Maybe some better friendships and long term associations could be made ???
madness maybe i know, sure it would never work but just a thought  

slight tweak to your proposals...just to finesse them.
keep the faith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote everest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 14:59
Blimey - I know you will be thinking this guy is nuts, but what about we could organize some 7's tournaments towards the end of the season for all those players not on the brink of divorce or totally broken in half. Wait for it maybe a big one in London Spread over a few grounds ending for some with a crack at Twickers against some prem clubs - what memories that would make, and i will tell you what lets go totally outside the box - Tour ?

thats it im getting unnecessary back to work that would never work
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 15:57
Next you will be suggesting we pick the ball up and run with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 15:59
And wear shorts with pockets to keep your fags in! 

Edited by Thatbloke - 08 Apr 2021 at 15:59
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everest View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote everest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 16:00
Camquin - mate come on, pick it up and box kick it your living in the past
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 16:01
Or spin pass it at 100mph to a team mate 2 yards away
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everest View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote everest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 16:19
mind you looking at this a different way, 8 hrs on a coach there and back for an away game at level 6, 3 cans per hour equals 24 cans, 24 cans in a case - some logic in there somewhere certainly from a supporters point of view eh!
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