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Ringfencing is here

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Richard Lowther View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 13:15
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

You are all making my point a little better than I did although I was a bit peeved at the time of writing but if you go back a little bit Sarries were not a group 1 club, nor Exeter or Worcester so no club deserves the right to be kept in a false position supported by the rest of the rugby community. It wasn’t so long ago that Ealing, Jersey, Hartpury, Scottish, Richmond, Doncaster, Coventry were all fighting to get out of National one at various times so now they are there why should others be stopped from trying to take their place I thought that was the idea of competive sport as most of the current incumbents Have taken the place of another club some did it by a name change Gosforth anyone

It is a point I frequently make elsewhere with supporters of current Premiership clubs. The reply is always "But that was back then and lots of things have changed since" - in reality what they mean is they are currently in the driving seat rather than in the passenger seat. 

But when they are in the passenger seat there is never the demand to ring fence. 

Since the Leagues started ony Leicester, Bath, Gloucester and Wasps have not played outside the top flight. 

I read a statistic that if Brentford are promoted into the Premier League nearly 50% of Football clubs  will have played in that competition since its formation. That is what open promotion and relegation can produce - an opportunity for the best teams of their day to play at the highest level. 

Unfortunately in Rugby we believe that the best teams in 2020 will still be the best teams in 2025. 



Edited by Richard Lowther - 30 Jul 2020 at 13:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thunderbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 13:24
Well put RL. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 13:37
RL wrote: "Since the Leagues started only Leicester, Bath, Gloucester and Wasps have not played outside the top flight."
That's a powerful stat. 
Why should every club not be given the chance to aspire to the top league? Ring fencing would kill rugby IMO. The top flight would become a sterile, tedious competition where there would be a lot of  meaningless games. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 13:44
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Richard - I had missed that line.

I think they have looked at Rotherham and realised that without RFU money, there fate lies somewhere between that and manchester or even Leeds (who I have no confidence will raise a team).

And actually you can add Otley Newbury, Sedgley Park and Esher.

Clubs get addicted to the heroin of RFU funding.
If they want to play in a League without relegation Surrey 4 is over there ->.

Also Manchester. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thunderbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 13:46
Once all the relevant stake holders are in the premieship then the door will shut , even if they have to expand it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 13:54
so whoever comes down next season is stuck for 4 years?
Cant see them voting for that...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 14:41
It's just typical vested interests. The haves always want to keep it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 15:06
Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

 The top flight would become a sterile, tedious competition where there would be a lot of  meaningless games. 

as would level 2 if that's being ringfenced at both ends too - but then given the academy draft also being proposed, doesn't that effectively make level 2 the A League rather than "a league" anyway...?

keep the faith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 16:00
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

It's just typical vested interests. The haves always want to keep it.
and they usually achieve that.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 16:37
Originally posted by Woody Woody wrote:

so whoever comes down next season is stuck for 4 years?
Cant see them voting for that...


Assuming anyone is relegated - I suspect Saracens get promoted and there will be 13 teams in the Premiership
RAID ON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 17:54
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Woody Woody wrote:

so whoever comes down next season is stuck for 4 years?
Cant see them voting for that...


Assuming anyone is relegated - I suspect Saracens get promoted and there will be 13 teams in the Premiership


In that case a second team is looking to get picked up which could be Ealing or Donny . Ealing on what they have spent and Donny looked to have recruited heavily and have the ground to develop and would tick the RFU box of a team in Yorkshire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan Gleebles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 18:52
Would Donny or even Ealing want to get smashed every week for years? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 19:05
Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

Would Donny or even Ealing want to get smashed every week for years? 
Ealing seem to have have deep enough pockets to avoid that and have a ground capable of development. Donny have a brilliant ground and could easily fill the vacancy created by Yorkies but Pirates want it so badly I hope they get the ticket to the show and it doesn't bankrupt them.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 21:39
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

Would Donny or even Ealing want to get smashed every week for years? 
Ealing seem to have have deep enough pockets to avoid that and have a ground capable of development. Donny have a brilliant ground and could easily fill the vacancy created by Yorkies but Pirates want it so badly I hope they get the ticket to the show and it doesn't bankrupt them.
Be careful.  Old Elthamians are currently finding out what happens when Mr Deep Pockets dies unexpectedly and his heirs and successors don't wish to keep up his record of generosity.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 06:49
Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Woody Woody wrote:

so whoever comes down next season is stuck for 4 years?
Cant see them voting for that...


Assuming anyone is relegated - I suspect Saracens get promoted and there will be 13 teams in the Premiership


In that case a second team is looking to get picked up which could be Ealing or Donny . Ealing on what they have spent and Donny looked to have recruited heavily and have the ground to develop and would tick the RFU box of a team in Yorkshire

Ealing suffers from its location and would be another club in a crowded London market, especially now London Irish are returning to the capital. 

Doncaster, as you say, would tick the box to have a team in Yorkshire.

Cornish Pirates would also expand the geographical remit and if the stadium ever gets built would have a good case. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 07:57
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Woody Woody wrote:

so whoever comes down next season is stuck for 4 years?
Cant see them voting for that...


Assuming anyone is relegated - I suspect Saracens get promoted and there will be 13 teams in the Premiership


In that case a second team is looking to get picked up which could be Ealing or Donny . Ealing on what they have spent and Donny looked to have recruited heavily and have the ground to develop and would tick the RFU box of a team in Yorkshire


Ealing suffers from its location and would be another club in a crowded London market, especially now London Irish are returning to the capital. 

Doncaster, as you say, would tick the box to have a team in Yorkshire.

Cornish Pirates would also expand the geographical remit and if the stadium ever gets built would have a good case. 




Agreed Richard both Donny and Pirates would tick the geographical box I still feel Donny at the moment would get the vote as they are a good way to having a stadium of the right size and are in Yorkshire which seems to be the only thing that matters to the RFU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 09:44
Ealing must be kicking themselves at not tying up with Brentford FC. I’m not sure what other stadia options they have. The street story is that they have 5 years of guaranteed funding whether their benefactor lives or dies.

I’d prefer to see Pirates get the chance but so much depends on how quickly S4C gets built.

Donny also have a good claim.

Why not take Saracens shares and split them between 2 of that 3. Then Saracens could slip quietly down the Leagues while playing in a park in North London.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 14:21
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Ealing must be kicking themselves at not tying up with Brentford FC. I’m not sure what other stadia options they have. The street story is that they have 5 years of guaranteed funding whether their benefactor lives or dies.

I’d prefer to see Pirates get the chance but so much depends on how quickly S4C gets built.

Donny also have a good claim.

Why not take Saracens shares and split them between 2 of that 3. Then Saracens could slip quietly down the Leagues while playing in a park in North London.

I don't think a long term tie up with Brentford is really feasible for Ealing, as Brentford isn't part of Ealing Borough - loathe to throw away 150 years of tradition. Trailfinders are the only professional team in the borough of nearly 400k people, so there is scope to have a reasonable number of fans. I will absolutely say that Irish being so near may siphon some off, but on the other hand, when we last played Irish, we had just shy of 4000 fans at the game, the highest ever attendance at TFSC.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 14:46
I bet the majority were Irish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 14:47
I thought London irish were moving to Brentford - after a half season at the Stoop. 
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