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Revolt in the North

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2018 at 20:45
I guarantee about three of these break away teams will fold by the end of the year. No tears will be shed for the Lancs cry babies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2018 at 11:09
373 - That is a little harsh, and I am no fan of what they have done.

The problem is not with the clubs in the outlying regions, they accept they have no choice, if you want to play at any standard you need to travel.

It is the neighbours who find that promotion means travel.
The London club that has to go to North Norfolk, or the Devon club travelling to West Cornwall.
There was some discussion of Devon clubs not fulfilling fixtures - but they have a Devon/Cornwall league at level 8.

London Division split London 3 NW (level 8) into London 3 Eastern Counties and London 3 Essex.
And at level 9 Eastern Counties 1 is played in conferences and then playoffs but now includes 2nd XVs.

But at level 7 you can still get long journeys - though this season there was only one Norfolk side.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2018 at 16:26
My problem is more with the teams that have no travel to Cumbria - namely the SLC teams that have jumped across. The teams pushing up into the higher reaches and travel - it’s semi understandable. The teams that have jumped for no reason apart from being browbeaten by county reps - no time whatsoever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 10:15
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

My problem is more with the teams that have no travel to Cumbria - namely the SLC teams that have jumped across. The teams pushing up into the higher reaches and travel - it’s semi understandable. The teams that have jumped for no reason apart from being browbeaten by county reps - no time whatsoever.
 
Nope the problem is you don't understand the issue full stop!
 
Question, if the Clubs that have formed the League decided not to form their own league but join the North West Intermediate League you wouldn't have a problem with that?
 
You also seem to be conveniently forgetting that Cumbria formed their own County League (outside of the RFU) 4 years ago which includes a few 1st XVs, did you offer a view on that?
 
County Reps browbeating Clubs? Think you are doing more disservice to the Lancashire Clubs, also small point the Clubs approached the County to help sort things out not the other way round.
 
Simple facts, the issue of long distance travel for Clubs has been an issue since inception of the RFU Leagues, despite over 5 years of trying to sort something that suited the 3 CBs involved, Cumbria had a no point in talking as we want the "Status Quo" view. Cheshire meekly followed Cumbria's lead as it didn't really concern them.
 
Lancashire have reacted to the needs of the Clubs and I believe for  the good of the game at lower league level, if you want to continue down you road of s1agging off Lancashire & its Clubs off then keep going with you head buried so far up your own backside you can't even hear the BS you are talking.
 
As for you wishing that 3 or more Clubs will go out of business. 1. They Won't and 2. Just wondering if Wallasey & Christleton will be competing in the RFC NCC next season because the word on the street is they won't be. That should help make the SLC Leagues look less viable by the minute.


Edited by PiffPaff - 04 Jun 2018 at 11:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 12:08
I see.

Yes, I would have had a problem with that - it would have greatly impacted those leagues and pushed out those who are playing in 2 & 3XV teams.

It's not exactly the same thing though is it? Cumbria effectively created their own version of the NOWIRUL leagues. So what?

So at the meeting that took place a number of clubs that wanted more time to consider their options weren't effectively cast out? The Country decided it was going to make a statement and never mind the consequences!

Travel has always been an issue. I'm not sure how it doesn't affect Cheshire, seeing as they have to travel through Lancs to get to Cumbria.  More to do with understanding if teams want to play a decent standard of Rugby they need to travel to places at the same level. Unlike the Lancs Bravado leagues which will see a team that played level 6 playing teams that finished midtable in level 8.

Lancs have reacted in typical Lancs style, toys out the pram. 

And I'm not wishing whatsoever, the regrettable thing is that your going to have some huge mismatches next year. The 1 team clubs will disappear overnight because they just aren't sustainable, like the Wallasey and Christleton that you mention. 

It's another damning indictment of committees playing at running rugby clubs and its high time they were forced to reflect on that rather than being mollycoddled. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 12:55
So in essence every 1st Team in NOWIRUL should join the RFU Leagues? Great idea lets force all 19, yes 19 1st or 1 team Clubs back in a league structure they opted out of. That 19 breaks down to 9 Lancashire Clubs 9 Cheshire and a Derbyshire Club...... you can't have it both ways if its NOT ok for 19 Lancashire Clubs to join their own league or NOWIRUL then it must NOT be ok for these other 19 not to be in the RFU Leagues? Lets not mention the 3 Cumbrian Club 1st XVs  in the non-RFU Cumbria League.
Do you want to give examples of Lancs typical style? No idea what you are talking about.
 
Both Cumbria and Cheshire played Chicken with Lancs and lost. All the two Cs had to do was talk and be pragmatic, instead they chose "we've always done it that way" option no discussion needed. That is why this has happened end of!
 
Yes their is potential for mismatches as there is in any League
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 14:41
The 1st XV teams that are in the NOWIRUL leagues are either teams that were decimated in the NOWIRUL leagues to the point where the 2xv that was present in those leagues became the de facto 1XV team, or have come in to avoid collapse having never looked likely of sustaining an effort in the RFU leagues. Not for the Lancs bully boys to come in and dictate how things should be. There’s no way a LSH or Eccles 1XV should be near NOWIRUL unless it was the only option to continued existence.

As I say, baby and bath water seems to be the Lancs way and I do wonder how many teams will be back cap in hand next year, or how Aldwinians will try to shuffle the decks again to ensure they win something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 15:46
373, are you a politician? Avoid answering questions and change the subject PDQ?
 
Are you now saying that NOWIRUL Leagues are a bad thing? Pretty sure NOWIRUL would argue the opposite to what you are portraying.  
 
Why would any Club want to go back to the RFU Leagues in its current structure given the Lancs County Leagues gives them all of what they wanted and then some.
 
Eccles got relegated from NLC last season and were thinking of joining LCRUL but they opted to stay in the RFU Leagues, you probably didn't notice but they are in a 8 Team SLC2 now. Can't speak for LSH but maybe they can see that its better to have loved and lived, then love and lose your club.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 16:47
I didn’t change the question? I’d already said that 1XV teams being put into the NOWIRUL leagues wasn’t right due to the fact it’s mainly a 2xv down league. As stated the 1 team clubs that are in there are there because they are either what’s left of a club and are playing at the right level, or have never gone any further as a club. I’m sorry if you can’t carry ideas and context carried from one answer to another.

I wasn’t aware that Eccles had decided the Make Lancashire Great Again leagues weren’t for them, I’ve yet to see any leagues published. Which does bring back a point from before about Lancs browbeating clubs at the meeting they had. One does wonder how many players were actually consulted before alacadoos made their usual proclamations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 17:56
OK, I'll shout louder then YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

Quote "Which does bring back a point from before about Lancs browbeating clubs at the meeting they had." Evidence? You provide none because there is none. The meeting held at Wigan had most  of the Lancashire Level 7 and below Clubs in attendance those who elected to join the County League and those still in the RFU Leagues.

The original 24 clubs where all asked to confirm their participation all 24 did. Some days after the meeting 4 of them changed their mind, no big deal. But for you to spread a malicious  rumour about County Officers browbeating clubs is the fakest of fake news. Lancashire have been trying for years to come with a format that suited everybody but Cumbria stood there ground shouting the name of a naff 70s Rock Band Status Quo! Status Quo! Cheshire realising that they may have actually have to deal with unhappy Clubs if the plans went ahead supported Cumbria, knowing full well if the the status quo remained they didn't have to worry of the potential chance of some of their clubs having to travel to Cumbria yet its fine for Lancashire Clubs to keep on doing it, well now your County officials will have to earn their crust things aren't going back to what they where. 

It use to be good talk but Cumbria and more shamefully Cheshire decided not to, fine keep hiding on your peninsula ..... BTW can you use 5 letters from the word peninsula  to describe a male phallus and yourself!!!!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 20:04
Apart from tweets by several clubs that were in attendance that pretty much indicated that there was a fair amount of pressure. Anyway, you’ve shown exactly why seeing the back of some of the toxic Lancashire clubs is for the best. Carry on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 20:56
Ok again going to call you out on that, provide evidence, oh that's right you can't!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimesLikeThese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 21:11
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

My problem is more with the teams that have no travel to Cumbria - namely the SLC teams that have jumped across. The teams pushing up into the higher reaches and travel - it’s semi understandable. The teams that have jumped for no reason apart from being browbeaten by county reps - no time whatsoever.
 
Nope the problem is you don't understand the issue full stop!
 
Question, if the Clubs that have formed the League decided not to form their own league but join the North West Intermediate League you wouldn't have a problem with that?
 
You also seem to be conveniently forgetting that Cumbria formed their own County League (outside of the RFU) 4 years ago which includes a few 1st XVs, did you offer a view on that?
 
County Reps browbeating Clubs? Think you are doing more disservice to the Lancashire Clubs, also small point the Clubs approached the County to help sort things out not the other way round.
 
Simple facts, the issue of long distance travel for Clubs has been an issue since inception of the RFU Leagues, despite over 5 years of trying to sort something that suited the 3 CBs involved, Cumbria had a no point in talking as we want the "Status Quo" view. Cheshire meekly followed Cumbria's lead as it didn't really concern them.
 
Lancashire have reacted to the needs of the Clubs and I believe for  the good of the game at lower league level, if you want to continue down you road of s1agging off Lancashire & its Clubs off then keep going with you head buried so far up your own backside you can't even hear the BS you are talking.
 
As for you wishing that 3 or more Clubs will go out of business. 1. They Won't and 2. Just wondering if Wallasey & Christleton will be competing in the RFC NCC next season because the word on the street is they won't be. That should help make the SLC Leagues look less viable by the minute.


I wonder if anyone has considered creating one single structure and bringing the NOWIRUL teams into the ECC. A thought, but one that might provide a solution nonetheless.

Before anyone says it's not possible, as I understand it, this is what goes on in the South West. 
And that's the bottom line, 'cause Stone Cold said so!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2018 at 08:09
Not sure how asking NOWIRUL to merge in the ECC would work, I doubt NOWIRUL would want it as they are an independent Competition they would lose all their funding and have very little to do with the operation of the merged body as it will come under the auspices of the RFU NCC/ECC. In addition there are Clubs outside of the North area (Glossop have dispensation) involved in NOWIRUL and that would create all kinds of issues on governance and the like. Teams like Newcastle (Staffs) and Hope Valley (Derbys) get away with playing out of their Division at the moment if they come into the RFU NCC/ECC then that creates other issues on Player Registration and regulation something 90% of the Clubs want less of and again need to mention the potential for ever more travel times but for lower XVs. Would Sefton 3rds want to travel to Cumbria, Derbyshire and Staffordshire? and if they didn't are they happy to be docked points and fined!
 
Apparently there was a meeting last night at Southport involving the 6 Lancashire Clubs in NLC and AltKersal and the Cheshire RFU Rep and Chair. They've come up with the plan of dissolving NLC, make a Cumbria only Level 7 League (good luck with that) and new Lancashire/Cheshire Level 7 League....... bit similar to what Lancashire wanted pre-breakaway but was vetoed by Cumbria & Cheshire (that didn't take long for that worm to turn did it 373?) of course this won't happen because Cumbria will still say no way Status Quo - rocking all over the North..............
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2018 at 08:31
Ha no PiffPaff, Lancashire wanted their own league so they actually could win something. From there, from rumours I’ve heard, there would be North 1 (Lancs) with a direct line into the National Leagues. They would then have to have a National 2 (Lancs), National 1 (Lancs) and Championship (Lancs) to ensure everything was fair and they got into the Premiership where they rightfully belong!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DICKON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2018 at 09:00
Piff paff - hang your head in shame! Status quo are not
Naff!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2018 at 10:15
First, Dickon, 1000 apologies, SQ are a bit like Marmite.
 
373 I guess your failed attempt at humour means you know your argument doesn't stand up. Can't beat Facts especially the true facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2018 at 10:48
373, Oswestry have dropped out of SLC gone back to the Midlands, think Cheshire have made the biggest error of judgement since David Cameron decided to have the Brexit Referendum. Don't you just love factual statements!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2018 at 11:39
This thread's getting better than the Waterloo one. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2018 at 12:08
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