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Would you want your side promoted this season?

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Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: National League 1
Forum Description: Discuss the 16 clubs in the third level of the English game
URL: http://www.rolling-maul.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2927
Printed Date: 16 Jan 2021 at 20:21
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Topic: Would you want your side promoted this season?
Posted By: Top of the Hill
Subject: Would you want your side promoted this season?
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 20:34
Given the lively debate on the Championship thread about ring-fencing has featured a number of arguments assuming no-one in this league would want or be capable of handling promotion financially (because everyone already in the Championship are shining beacons of economic hope), I wondered if that's really how fans at this level felt.

If your team got promoted this season, would that be a good thing? Would life in the Championship next year (at whatever level of competitiveness) be better or worse than a season in National 1 or 2?


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@RossiT: I sit atop all creation, and all that I survey is great... and Cornish!



Replies:
Posted By: matchmaker
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 10:28
Exeter now looking far from capable of surviving even with the massive funding injection from the RFU. At least no one could accuse the Chiefs of counting their chickens. Well done Plymouth.


Posted By: dumbape
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 10:54
Its really a no brainer as for me the point of playing at these levels is the contest ... you can only ever play what is in front of you and do your best. If you win enough you move up ... simples.

The issue though is complicated if a Club has management in place that jeopardises the future through imprudent financial management by spending more than they can afford.  This isn't really about the leagues though, its about Club Management and whether there is the understanding and frankly the nerve to hold back on money for the good of the whole club. 


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What a blessing it would be if we could open and shut our ears as easily as we open and shut our eyes!


Posted By: Top of the Hill
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 14:26
Originally posted by dumbape dumbape wrote:

Its really a no brainer as for me the point of playing at these levels is the contest ... you can only ever play what is in front of you and do your best. If you win enough you move up ... simples.

True, but moving up from this level necessitates professional players. This would force many players for National One clubs to go back down the leagues to a semi-pro side, since they could not give up their jobs to make the switch, especially if the club's lifespan in the Championship is only one season (the most likely scenario!)

Suddenly the club would have to find enough money to support professionalism - no easy task even for the best of backroom staff - and find enough players willing to play professionally for the club.
The Championship is a game-changer: promotion and relegation below level 2-3 should be a no-brainer, but promotion to the Championship is a very different kettle of fish.


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@RossiT: I sit atop all creation, and all that I survey is great... and Cornish!


Posted By: lansonboy
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 15:04
It is a good question. I loved the season we had in national 1, watching Launceston at Franklin gardens was frankly bizarre. The derbies with Albion, Pirates and maybe Exe would get us crowds of 2,000ish and a cracking atmosphere at Polson.
The problem I see is that there is no way we could compete in a 12 team league. With a bit of luck we could have stayed up last time, but now.............
Would the powers that be at the club spend too much to try and compete? or do we stick to the same team and get bullied off the park? Personally I feel that we are at the optimum level for a club our size, and unless we suddenly got a sugardaddy or redbull open a factory in the town and decide they want to give us wings then we would really struggle if we went up.............Having said that it would be fun to have Bath at the bridge!!!


Posted By: hammer
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 15:08

The Championship is a game-changer: promotion and relegation below level 2-3 should be a no-brainer, but promotion to the Championship is a very different kettle of fish.
[/QUOTE]

But promotion from Nat 2 does not appear to be a no brainer for the clubs with only Loughborough Students' unique situation making them unequivocally keen on promotion as far as I am aware.


Posted By: matchmaker
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 15:35
Raises a good debating point. Is it easier to survive/exist/prosper in a league of 12 rather than a league of 16? Or is the number of promoted/relegated teams to and from the league a more relevant factor
The French have Top14 and Pro2 (16) and a sensible play off system for clubs 2nd - 5th, two teams going up into level 1. 48 clubs compete at Federale 1 with 3 promoted and 12 relegated. Yes 25%!
It strikes me that competitive vitality is in substantial part dependent upon league structure. If so the RFU have gone backwards in reducing the sizes of the top two leagues.


Posted By: Hexhamshire Lad
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 17:07
I think  I would be distinctly nervous if Tyne got promoted, but think it would be rather interesting to see how an essentially amateur club could get on at that level. Might change the opinions of many of the RFU big wigs


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 19:16
The difference between Tyne who has you say are an essentially amateur club and the clubs in the Championship is MASSIVE !!!
 
Look at Manchester,Sedgley,launceston and Otley who were competitive in there home games maybe win between 3-6 games all season but end up on the wrong end of a few good hidings.
 
Financially none of the above have spent the money required to stabilise at that level because they cant
where as some have that haven't ?
your


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 19:17
Whoops
 
Your better off were you are


Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 19:40
Presumably Esher, or their alter ego London Premiership Academy Allstars, would be happy to be promoted. I'm sure the powers that be at the RFU would be delighted.


Posted By: Hexhamshire Lad
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 20:14
Originally posted by RugbyNut RugbyNut wrote:

The difference between Tyne who has you say are an essentially amateur club and the clubs in the Championship is MASSIVE !!!
 
Look at Manchester,Sedgley,launceston and Otley who were competitive in there home games maybe win between 3-6 games all season but end up on the wrong end of a few good hidings.
 
Financially none of the above have spent the money required to stabilise at that level because they cant
where as some have that haven't ?
your
 
RugbyNut, I totally accept what you say, but don't you think that a club operating in this way at level 2 would send messages to clubs further down the pyramid that you don't have to mortgage your birthright to make progress and it would cause some red faces at the RFU. In practice, playing at level 3 is the result of a very SLOW but gradual improvement since the introduction of the leagues and I think this is the key. The change is so slow that it can be coped with. I'm not for one minute suggesting that we will be promoted - our most likely optimum position would be 5th and unless 5 clubs from the championship implode and need replacing (highly unlikely) we ain't going up In the spirit of the original post, however, I was just musing on the implications of such a miracle taking place.


Posted By: Top of the Hill
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2009 at 05:49
Originally posted by RugbyNut RugbyNut wrote:

Whoops
 
Your better off were you are
So everyone in the Championship keeps telling us. And so everyone in the GP keeps telling the Championship clubsWink. It doesn't stop everybody at level 2 obsessing with promotion, though!


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@RossiT: I sit atop all creation, and all that I survey is great... and Cornish!


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2009 at 07:49
Still plying that amateur line- it does not wash.Ask the players


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2009 at 12:33

Yes I would love to see Tyne competing at that level there a good club well coached with some exiting young players. However you would need a big improvement in the quality and size of your squad. Unless you could get players to play has amateurs I don't think you would compete and one thing you haven't got at level 2 on or off the field is time.

Tynedale remind much of Manchester who got promoted on the back of a young exiting fit team that scored over 100 tries at level 3. They couldn't strengthen there team with level 2 players to be reasonably competitive and won 2 or 3 games all season.

 
I know the players and officials at Sedgley and Manchester loved there time in Level 2 both having around 5 or 6 years, but if you added all there wins up for both teams over that period they would still finish outside the top 4 in any season.


Posted By: High Heidjin
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2009 at 14:17
Yes, for London Scottish Big smile

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The Inner Game Will Win Every Time


Posted By: Sideline Scream
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2009 at 15:20
Think yes for any club!!  Beer


Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2009 at 15:37
As an aside, what is the Loughborough Students training/academic regime - are they students for example and thus truly amateur - would the same apply if Oxford or Cambridge Univertities applied to join...............or a United Services team?

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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2009 at 15:45
Originally posted by FoghornLeghorn FoghornLeghorn wrote:

As an aside, what is the Loughborough Students training/academic regime - are they students for example and thus truly amateur - would the same apply if Oxford or Cambridge Univertities applied to join...............or a United Services team?
 
Tony Rodgers at CURUFC said no way hose 20 years ago........thanks Tony, it has been of great benefit to CRUFC not to have another National League side in the City.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2009 at 15:59
Loughborough are in a unique position. Yes officially all their players are Amateur but the have the best off the field training, coaching and rehabilitation facilities of any club outside the Premiership all of which is funded through the university. Many of their players are attached to Premiership academy sides and they have come through English / Welsh / Scottish age group international teams. Their weakness, if they have one is the fact that they will usually provide 8-10 English students side during the last two months of the season. However with a Core squad which is limited to 130!! thay have superb back up players. Now they have been installed as favourites for National 2 North it will be interesting how they approach the key games which conflict with internationals, will they be allowed to pospone games, as is the case with teams which have English County players.
The other interesting point which they may well fall foul of is the fact that, whilst they have a great pitch, they have no other facilities (including a clubhouse or stand) so they would not pass any ground Audit which may well be implemented in the next two or three seasons. Mind you this will also affect several other clubs at Championship and National 1 level. These regulations have laready been brought in for Welsh clubs and very few can get promotion because they cannot pass a ground/ facilities audit.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2009 at 11:12
As a Newbury fan, yes we miss the big games and taking the odd big scalp - Coventry and Plymouth last season, Northampton nearly the season before (both home and away), but in reality getting thumped by Leeds by 80 odd points is no fun. In reality we are now playing clubs of  similar size with similar facilities and expectations. The competitive nature of this league reflects that. Yes the target is promotion - has to be, but there are other factors.
The problem of this league is the travelling relative to crowd size and therefore the revenue in return. How can it ever be effective? Redruth to Tynedale for 400 people?? At least playing the bigger clubs bring a few more spectators. Would we all have particularly smaller crowds if we were playing the next division down?
 


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2009 at 23:49
What's your issue with esher? From my observation esher are playing expansive rugby with a squad of players who ENJOY playing for the club, whether dual registrated or sololy registrated for esher. People seem to take issue with esher for various reasons, yet they are quietly going about their business of getting back to league they belong to be in, after graciously excepting the rfu's reshuffle. Is it going to be tight this season? Yes. But there are some clubs currently who have great ambitions but lack the humility of those who have been there and learnt the lessons! Bring on 2010 lets see who's got the staying power!    


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2009 at 23:54
I was replying to cheshire exiles post


Posted By: Redhead
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2009 at 11:51
Having now given the matter due thought and consideration, NO!

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Hellfire Awaits


Posted By: Janner100
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2009 at 16:51

Well I bow to your thought and consideration Redhead. In that case nor do I 




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