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Is kicking too easy?

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Topic: Is kicking too easy?
Posted By: Camquin
Subject: Is kicking too easy?
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 17:09
Having watched another boring match where sides spend most of their time kicking the ball away, I have to ask is it time to make the ball less aerodynamic?

If you could only kick 20 metres, would you be more likely to pick the ball up and run?

Also has anyone seen a proper drop kick in the wild?
I am sure most of the kick offs and drop outs are punted.

Finally, can we have kicks taken behind the mark?
As opposed to starting on the mark and taking several steps forward before releasing the ball.





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Blood and Sand



Replies:
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 17:23
Yep, fill the ball with sand and soak it in wine.

Oh, no, that's Georgia, innit?


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 17:30
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Having watched another boring match where sides spend most of their time kicking the ball away, I have to ask is it time to make the ball less aerodynamic?

If you could only kick 20 metres, would you be more likely to pick the ball up and run?

Also has anyone seen a proper drop kick in the wild?
I am sure most of the kick offs and drop outs are punted.

Finally, can we have kicks taken behind the mark?
As opposed to starting on the mark and taking several steps forward before releasing the ball.





Certainly agree with the last point, it is something I have commented on a number of times and seems to be accepted by referees these days.

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RAID ON


Posted By: 'Hopper
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 17:41
Ban the Caterpillar for a start. That might cut down one form of kicking. 

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What if the Hokey Kokey really IS what it's all about?


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 18:00
'Hopper that is simple.
The 9 is offside when they encroach beyond the back feet to position the ball.
Anyone in the ruck must be fully bound from hand to shoulder.
No player in the ruck may use their hands.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 19:56
Drop goals are becoming a lost art. Both at international and community level and I'd love to see them make a comeback


Posted By: Count Ford
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 20:15
Maybe "the mark' should be allowed anywhere in your own half to try and put a stop to games turning into a procession of box kicks 


Posted By: Rucking Idiot
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 21:16
Or we could go back to 60's with a laced up pigs bladder when the ball had to last the whole season. Then after Christmas it was like playing with a wet sponge, but brilliant for mauls. OH happy days...

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If it looks like a duck & quacks like a duck it's just my rucking luck!


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 22:23
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

Maybe "the mark' should be allowed anywhere in your own half to try and put a stop to games turning into a procession of box kicks 

Good idea, bringing it back like it used to be 50 years ago. Might even be able to bring back the obsolete "goal from mark" as a scoring method.


Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 10:43
Nigel Owens , last season called the ball out as soon as the No 9 touched the ball with his hand this would speed up the play and give the opposition time to break to charge down the kick. I have not seen that this season. I also think that the length of the Ruck needs to be looked at may be that a player is only in the rugby if he is bound onto more than one player that would shorten the ruck. However I think that there is an issue of the back foot especially with the mid field that seem to be off side at most rucks. It would be an interesting exercise if the TV would put the offside line on the screen as they do with the gain line and that would at least highlight the issue. I suppose it is the assistant ref who calls it. 


Posted By: Puli.
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 11:03
Assistant Refs appear to ignore this law as well ........ 

  • The player throwing in the ball stands on the mark of touch with both feet outside the field of play. The thrower must not step into the field of play until the ball has been thrown


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If Rugby is the game they play in Heaven ..... Why does it hurt like Hell when you retire?


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 13:23
Four points for a drop goal.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 14:18
Totally agree with:

No to Catepillar

Calling Mark anywhere in your own half

And use the early eighties Gilbert Match

I find the sneaking forward from the mark reprehensible, players always in front of the kicker at restarts. No kicking tees, or if so very small as with the elevation the ball makes it is very easy to kick goals. Particularly as this encourages cheating at the scrum to win penalties to kick at goal. How many games are won by technical (dubious) penalties rather than brilliant open rugby?


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Run with it


Posted By: Guinness John
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 14:43
Absolutely agree, waiting for 1, no two, even 3 to join on, it should be stopped.

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Bedford Blues Supporter of the Year 2010 - 2011


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 14:49
Originally posted by Puli. Puli. wrote:

Assistant Refs appear to ignore this law as well ........ 

<ul ="froala-ul" style="-sizing: border-; margin-bottom: 1rem; margin-top: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-left: 30px; caret-color: rgb50, 50, 54; color: rgb50, 50, 54; font-family: Uni-Neue-Regular, " Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 17px; letter-spacing: 0.09995999932289124px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba0, 0, 0, 0; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><li style="-sizing: border-; list-style-: disc;">The player throwing in the ball stands on the mark of touch with both feet outside the field of play. The thrower must not step into the field of play until the ball has been thrown


I know what you mean, however on the line is outside the field of play.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Puli.
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 20:10
Raider999 .... at the weekend it was a case of not on the line but well over it. Minor point I know compared with some other problems but the laws are there to be adhered to. 

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If Rugby is the game they play in Heaven ..... Why does it hurt like Hell when you retire?


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 19:28
Originally posted by Puli. Puli. wrote:

Raider999 .... at the weekend it was a case of not on the line but well over it. Minor point I know compared with some other problems but the laws are there to be adhered to. 


Didn't spot that - but the TJ should have otherwise is there any point in him being there?

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RAID ON


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 20:31
There's many elements of the game which make it boring to watch - and probably for some to play. 

The pick and go and the constant need to go back into contact rather than move the ball into space frustrates the living daylights out of me. As my late father used to say, "They are dodgems not bumper cars" meaning the aim was to avoid contact not look for it. 

Kicks if they have a purpose are fine, but most box kicks happen because the scrum half doesn't look for other options. 

When was the last time a scrum half dived pass? 

Would a heavier ball eliminate kicking?

Would the reduction of replacements see the game improve as more players would have to play for the full 80 and those who tire quicker would create gaps for teams and hoepfully stop the amount of kicks. 


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Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 20:33
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

Maybe "the mark' should be allowed anywhere in your own half to try and put a stop to games turning into a procession of box kicks 

No! Have marks return to the player being still with a boot in the ground.  


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Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 21:11
Dive passes? Mark with heel dug in? It’ll be three point tries and toe punt conversion before we know it!

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Speak softly, but carry a big stick.


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 12:33
Richard - I think that is the most important part, less replacements so players have to lighter and fitter, and ball need to be in play longer!

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Run with it


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 12:45
To move the ball into space rather than take contact requires the space to be there. It is difficult to create space against a well-organised defence, look at Ireland last weekend, the only space they created was through the chip ahead for Ringrose's try. If a well-organised defence takes away the space then the attacking team are left only with the option of taking contact or kicking, on both occasions hoping for a defensive error. Referees need to be really strict on offside lines, keeping players back, particularly from scrums when the tight location of 16 players should lead to more space being available.


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 14:58
Halliford you make good points. My frustration is that when England have by kicking gained field position and are in the opposition 22 they still insist on kicking the ball away instead of creating pressure and scoring tries. They have scored some good tries from kicks but they have also wasted a far higher number of chances to score as seen in all of the last 3 internationals they have played against inferior opposition


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 15:34
Point taken Marigold, however as a coach I would prefer my team to play the same way all the time, as the All Blacks do, than changing the game to suit the opposition.


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 16:13
What lose?LOL


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 19:08
Yes, but we are playing the same way all the time and that’s what matters!😂😂


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2020 at 20:39
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

To move the ball into space rather than take contact requires the space to be there. It is difficult to create space against a well-organised defence, look at Ireland last weekend, the only space they created was through the chip ahead for Ringrose's try. If a well-organised defence takes away the space then the attacking team are left only with the option of taking contact or kicking, on both occasions hoping for a defensive error. Referees need to be really strict on offside lines, keeping players back, particularly from scrums when the tight location of 16 players should lead to more space being available.

There is plenty of space - 15* men can't and don't occupy a full pitch.  Good players will find the space - whether by running into it, passing into it or kicking in it.  I see it all the time - both live and on TV how the players - at all level bunch into space and don't have the vision to look beyond the immediate ball carry or contact. 

When a team defends against a pick and drive by committing a full pack - then the space lays out on the outside, but rarely will the ball travel this far - it will be taking back into contact (yawn!), kicked aimlessly away (snore) or the referee will blow up (now asleep). 

*15 as a defensive line to beat.  Take a the width of a pitch to be 68m min, divide by the 15 players strung out across this gives you a gap of approx 4 metres per player.  In reality it be wider because the players will drift across to cover, narrowing on oneside creating space on the other. This is where the vision and skill to exploit those gaps isn't happening.


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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2020 at 07:14
Richard, the width approach doesn’t allow for the line speed of the defenders as they close down the attackers. You cannot pass the ball across the pitch quickly enough for it to stop the last defender closing down the last receiver. In order to penetrate a defence something has to change - the speed of the runner, the direction of the runner or the point of attack. Even then it often requires an error by the defence or the creation of a mismatch for an attack to penetrate. When I coached I used a lot of ideas from American Football. One was the simple approach - an offensive unit sets out its structure but so does the defensive unit. Sometimes what the defence does cancels out the offence so the quarterback has to go to a back-up play. That happens increasingly now in top-level rugby, particularly with England.



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