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RFU confirm plans for NCA Cup competition

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Topic: RFU confirm plans for NCA Cup competition
Posted By: Bill Sley
Subject: RFU confirm plans for NCA Cup competition
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2020 at 05:34
RFU confirm plans for NCA Cup competition
Nov 13th, 2020
https://www.ncarugby.com/announcements/rfu-confirm-plans-for-nca-cup-competition/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ncarugby.com/announcements/rfu-confirm-plans-for-nca-cup-competition/

Given that there will be no league rugby this season, the Rugby Football Union have put into place a cup competition for NCA clubs to give our teams a competitive environment when we are able to resume playing contact rugby.

This will have no impact on clubs’ league status. Taking part will be completely voluntary. However, clubs who opt to participate will be expected to honour their fixtures.

The competition will include both National One and National Two clubs and it will be in two phases.

Phase 1: This will consist of regional based leagues of around six clubs who will play home and away.
The groupings and fixtures will be announced once we know which clubs will be taking part with the main objective to minimise travelling.
The competition start date will also be determined when we are given the go ahead by government to restart competitive rugby which hopefully could be in January.

Phase 2 – Based on the positions in the leagues, clubs will be split into cup, plate and bowl and those matches will be played on a knockout basis to determine the three winners. We have had the offer of hosting the finals at Twickenham.
If the restart is conditional on there being modifications to the laws of the game, the competition will be played under these modifications. If these are relaxed once the competition starts, we will play under the relaxed conditions.

It will be necessary to make some changes to the game regulations and these will be announced later.

NCA Chairman John Inverdale commented: “We’ve been talking about this for a long time.  I’m delighted we’re now able to blow the whistle and I hope as many clubs will enter as possible.”

All clubs will be sent an email from the NCA which will contain all the information regarding participation and you have until 30th November to register your interest.

Any questions or enquires, please email ncasecretary@outlook.com or get in touch with us on Twitter @nca_rugby.



Replies:
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2020 at 09:27
Inverdale should be congratulated, he seems to be driving this, great for the clubs if it can go ahead.


Posted By: hills17
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2020 at 09:53
Agreed tigerburnie, he’s doing well


Posted By: Deva Delinquent
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2020 at 10:02
Finally something to look forward to. 


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2020 at 13:39
Wahey....

No, cynicism aside, hopefully this means I'll be able to wander down to Hinckley to catch a game at some point.
Better than nowt.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Bill Sley
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2020 at 18:19
I think it might not be quite as easy as it appears.........

Payments 
If the whole club is amateur then "jobs a good 'un".....but a Nat 1 I suspect there are a number of clubs relying on furlough for those that are on contract. If you play - you need to take them off furlough? 

Crowds 
I guess that if amateur/voluntary, then it might be like a "behind closed doors friendly" with only a bit of gas/leccy to pay for? 
If there are players that need payment - then a gate/bar needs to be taken to pay for it 

Regulations 
It seems like there might well be no scrums/mauls...........what happens to the 'muscle' up front? You'd be tempted to pick the fast lads so what would happen to the tight 5? 

Of course, if we're allowed into the ground - it's almost like "who cares.....we can see something"? 

There's a part of me that wants anything to watch - the other is, should we just call it a day until the 2021/22 pre-season as far as National Leagues are concerned. 




Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2020 at 18:57
Some good points.

As things are at present, I would think we are a fair way off any competitive games - even rugby-lite.

As for crowds - even further off IMO.

How quick the vaccinations can reach the majority is really the key.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 08:04
The RFU have confirmed that the NCA Cup is not considered elite rugby so, like soccer, crowds will be allowed up to one third of normal Ground capacity. Of course, that is subject to any restrictions from the Tier system in a particular area. I’m putting more faith in that than a vaccine which will take months to reach me.


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 10:30
Question as you are in the know Halliford:

Lets say this player is "clean" on Friday : 

What tests are going to be done pre game on both sides to make sure they are all clean on the day and the next and more inportant point is, what if somebody catches this virus from a game on Sat?

Cannot work because of it for 14 days, you then add in the other 30+ players and officials to that via track and trace . Or the virus gets worse and the player dies from it. How does the RFU or NCA insurance stack up or what is in place to protect the player.

Please don't think Im putting water on the fire, I'm not, John I has done a great job in getting this to the table and yes we do all want get back to playing, yes we all want a beer on a Saturday afternoon whilst watching the game we love, but the risk reward is far too great!

Does every player sign a disclaimer before they play, can see a few wives and girlfriends having a say on that, especially players that have families!





Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 16:21
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The RFU have confirmed that the NCA Cup is not considered elite rugby so, like soccer, crowds will be allowed up to one third of normal Ground capacity. Of course, that is subject to any restrictions from the Tier system in a particular area. I’m putting more faith in that than a vaccine which will take months to reach me.

I just hope they get something good like this for those of us at National 3 too.

As for capacity, unless you're Guernsey or have a proper stadium, you can easily just point to the old Courage Clubs Directory from 1990 to point out what the capacity is and get more in. :)


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 16:56
I think ground capacity would have changed since 1990,with clubs moving and or new stands built like mine. 

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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 17:26
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

I think ground capacity would have changed since 1990,with clubs moving and or new stands built like mine. 

Ah, but if you haven't then who's to say what has changed? Wink Unless there's a formal declaration of capacity, the older bigger one can stay unless they can prove otherwise.


Posted By: clieves
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 17:34
Do you not need a safety certificate from your council with a formal capacity ?


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 17:53
Originally posted by clieves clieves wrote:

Do you not need a safety certificate from your council with a formal capacity ?


Probably, however I think the point is unless you have an all seater stadium (loads of them at this level) you could stand 1 deep around the pitch or 10 deep.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 19:05
Originally posted by Scrumtime Scrumtime wrote:

Question as you are in the know Halliford:

Lets say this player is "clean" on Friday : 

What tests are going to be done pre game on both sides to make sure they are all clean on the day and the next and more inportant point is, what if somebody catches this virus from a game on Sat?

Cannot work because of it for 14 days, you then add in the other 30+ players and officials to that via track and trace . Or the virus gets worse and the player dies from it. How does the RFU or NCA insurance stack up or what is in place to protect the player.

Please don't think Im putting water on the fire, I'm not, John I has done a great job in getting this to the table and yes we do all want get back to playing, yes we all want a beer on a Saturday afternoon whilst watching the game we love, but the risk reward is far too great!

Does every player sign a disclaimer before they play, can see a few wives and girlfriends having a say on that, especially players that have families!



Because we are not the Elite game there will be no full-scale testing. Players will have to self-certify, as they did when we were training before this lockdown. In this way we are no different from the Allianz League which is already playing. As I understand it, provided all matches are played under the agreed RFU protocol then they are covered by the RFU insurance.

It’s obviously a risk and some Clubs may choose not to take the risk and so won’t enter the Cup. Many others will and will carefully assess the risk. So far we have had two positive tests in the 1st XV squad, one a teacher, and have not had to apply self-isolation because there was no close contact under the RFU flowchart. Inevitably there will be close contact in matches so that may result in some self-isolation requirements. Clubs and players have to make judgement calls and follow the rules.


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 19:07
I'm very impressed that Kingsheathlad has his own stand😂😂😂


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 19:09
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The RFU have confirmed that the NCA Cup is not considered elite rugby so, like soccer, crowds will be allowed up to one third of normal Ground capacity. Of course, that is subject to any restrictions from the Tier system in a particular area. I’m putting more faith in that than a vaccine which will take months to reach me.

I just hope they get something good like this for those of us at National 3 too.

As for capacity, unless you're Guernsey or have a proper stadium, you can easily just point to the old Courage Clubs Directory from 1990 to point out what the capacity is and get more in. :)

London & South East DOC are working on competitions for Level 5 down, as well as 2nd XVs. As to ground capacity, most Clubs at Levels 3-5 have had Local Authority assessments so have a known number. Ours is 1800 so we will be able to have up to 600, more than our average over the last two seasons!


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 19:36
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

I'm very impressed that Kinsheathlad has his own stand😂😂😂

Sssh, don't tell everyone. LOL


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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 08:10
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The RFU have confirmed that the NCA Cup is not considered elite rugby so, like soccer, crowds will be allowed up to one third of normal Ground capacity. Of course, that is subject to any restrictions from the Tier system in a particular area. I’m putting more faith in that than a vaccine which will take months to reach me.

I just hope they get something good like this for those of us at National 3 too.

As for capacity, unless you're Guernsey or have a proper stadium, you can easily just point to the old Courage Clubs Directory from 1990 to point out what the capacity is and get more in. :)

Robb: There is no such league as National 3 and its not under the NCA

Kent have all the details and have pulled together two groups of 6 sides from Prem s/e and London1 from what I understand.With the top 4 going into a semi then final.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 08:17
Originally posted by Scrumtime Scrumtime wrote:

Robb: There is no such league as National 3

An early entrant for Pedant of the Week Wink


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 09:23
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Originally posted by Scrumtime Scrumtime wrote:

Robb: There is no such league as National 3

An early entrant for Pedant of the Week Wink

Not at all! I was just pointing out why the NCA had not included that level. 



Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 09:42
Originally posted by Scrumtime Scrumtime wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The RFU have confirmed that the NCA Cup is not considered elite rugby so, like soccer, crowds will be allowed up to one third of normal Ground capacity. Of course, that is subject to any restrictions from the Tier system in a particular area. I’m putting more faith in that than a vaccine which will take months to reach me.

I just hope they get something good like this for those of us at National 3 too.

As for capacity, unless you're Guernsey or have a proper stadium, you can easily just point to the old Courage Clubs Directory from 1990 to point out what the capacity is and get more in. :)

Robb: There is no such league as National 3 and its not under the NCA

Kent have all the details and have pulled together two groups of 6 sides from Prem s/e and London1 from what I understand.With the top 4 going into a semi then final.

Yes there is, it's just been given the banal rebrand of "Region Premier League". It's still National 3 to me.


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 09:56
The "National" tag seems to attract more kudos from sponsors and the like  for obvious reasons but how can a league be classed as national when it's split into 4 regions?
The contradiction here, of course, is that Nat2 is also regionalised so let's not get too carried away with our own importance. If Robb wants to call his league Nat3 (South East) that's fine by me


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 11:23
A club could be termed national because it has players from all over the nation, or even international if you like.
Anyway when do we know who has agreed to play in this cup competition and when will the groups be announced?


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 12:50
The NCA Clubs have to reply by 30th November saying whether they wish to enter or not. I believe (but don't know) that it's the same date for Clubs at Level 5 and below.


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 14:52
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:


......

Yes there is, it's just been given the banal rebrand of "Region Premier League". It's still National 3 to me.

Quite right. My team play in the banally named "National League One" but it's "The Only League Worth Bothering About" to me. 


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2020 at 15:43
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The NCA Clubs have to reply by 30th November saying whether they wish to enter or not. I believe (but don't know) that it's the same date for Clubs at Level 5 and below.

Any truth to the rumour that Cornwall are going it alone?


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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 07:54
Correct: It was in the Cornish press yesterday. 


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 08:31
I suspect Redruth would rather play Camborne and St Ives than Plymouth and Cinderford. Geography rules OK?


Posted By: Dad
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 18:24
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The NCA Clubs have to reply by 30th November saying whether they wish to enter or not. I believe (but don't know) that it's the same date for Clubs at Level 5 and below.

Def same in SW

https://swrugby.co.uk/latest-news


Clubs can opt-in or out of their proposed clusters by filling in the following short survey  https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/RFUCluster" rel="nofollow - here Please be aware that clubs with multiple teams in the pyramid will need to fill out a response for each team.

Based on the attached initial detail, clubs are requested to confirm their ‘opt-in’ by 30th November to enable Organising Committees time to finalise the clusters and develop fixture lists.




Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 10:08
The proposal to start a NCA cup competition is a good way of getting back to playing, however the timing would appear to be a little optimistic with the start date the 14th January. All clubs are currently at A in the road map and no chance of starting training until First week in December at the earliest , with certain areas having to stay in the highest tier of Lockdown further into December, Which would leave a maximum of 4 weeks including Xmas and New Year. Do doubt the government will re impose a further lock down after Xmas to prevent another wave until the vaccine is rolled out. Traveling even short distances will be a problem getting players and staff into a coach to travel will risk infection. Are we going to be allowed to use the changing rooms and Bars? This all needs to be sorted had this been in the summer not in mid winter it would not be such a problem for players and spectators who would happily stand outside with an open air bar. The vaccinations will come later on in the spring except for the over 65 , health workers and the vulnerable so at least most of the clubs officials will be ok. 
I am not trying to be obstructive but all these issues need to be addressed by the NCA and clubs to ensure the games can go ahead.


Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 10:09
The proposal to start a NCA cup competition is a good way of getting back to playing, however the timing would appear to be a little optimistic with the start date the 14th January. All clubs are currently at A in the road map and no chance of starting training until First week in December at the earliest , with certain areas having to stay in the highest tier of Lockdown further into December, Which would leave a maximum of 4 weeks including Xmas and New Year. No doubt the government will re impose a further lock down after Xmas to prevent another wave until the vaccine is rolled out. Traveling even short distances will be a problem getting players and staff into a coach to travel will risk infection. Are we going to be allowed to use the changing rooms and Bars? This all needs to be sorted had this been in the summer not in mid winter it would not be such a problem for players and spectators who would happily stand outside with an open air bar. The vaccinations will come later on in the spring except for the over 65 , health workers and the vulnerable so at least most of the clubs officials will be ok. 
I am not trying to be obstructive but all these issues need to be addressed by the NCA and clubs to ensure the games can go ahead.


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 11:48
And they are, on a regular basis.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 17:37
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">The proposal to start a NCA cup competition is a good way of getting back to playing, however the timing would appear to be a little optimistic with the start date the 14th January. All clubs are currently at A in the road map and no chance of starting training until First week in December at the earliest , with certain areas having to stay in the highest tier of Lockdown further into December, Which would leave a maximum of 4 weeks including Xmas and New Year. No doubt the government will re impose a further lock down after Xmas to prevent another wave until the vaccine is rolled out. Traveling even short distances will be a problem getting players and staff into a coach to travel will risk infection. Are we going to be allowed to use the changing rooms and Bars? This all needs to be sorted had this been in the summer not in mid winter it would not be such a problem for players and spectators who would happily stand outside with an open air bar. The vaccinations will come later on in the spring except for the over 65 , health workers and the vulnerable so at least most of the clubs officials will be ok. </span><div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I am not trying to be obstructive but all these issues need to be addressed by the NCA and clubs to ensure the games can go ahead.


Not sure there is much point in the NCA Cup unless spectators are allowed and bars, club lunches are permitted. Otherwise it will be all outlay and no income for a few weeks of Rugby Lite.

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RAID ON


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2020 at 19:03
Raider I would suggest the positives of giving the players an organised structured run of fixtures against local opposition after having had little to look forward to on Saturdays far outweighs mothballing the entire rest of the season. WB points out some very real challenges but I have found most rugby clubs and rugby folk adopt a very positive/can do attitude when tough times appear and I am certain this will continue to be the case going forward.


Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 12:38
Outdoor sport to retuirn?

A ban on outdoor grassroots sport is set to be lifted in England when the national lockdown ends.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson will make a statement to the House of Commons on Monday unveiling plans for Covid-19 restrictions from 2 December, which MPs will vote on later in the week.

While parts of the tier system  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55029401" rel="nofollow - will be toughened,  it is expected that outdoor grassroots sport will be allowed across all tiers.


Lisa Wainwright, chief executive of the Sport and Recreation Alliance, said it was "critical that a proportion of this money goes to the lifeblood of each sport at the community level".

She added: "It remains crucial that community sport and recreation is opened up as soon as possible to enhance the physical and mental health of the nation as we move out of the debilitating effects of lockdown.

"While this release of funding is a very welcome development, we should remember that many sports are not covered by this package and they remain in a perilous situation with clubs and community centres struggling to survive the latest restrictions.

"To this extent, community sport and leisure still stands on a precipice."



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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 15:27
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/55010011" rel="nofollow - Fans at sporting events: Maximum of 4,000 set to be allowed in England - BBC Sport


Posted By: 'Hopper
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2020 at 17:48
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/55010011" rel="nofollow - Fans at sporting events: Maximum of 4,000 set to be allowed in England - BBC Sport

In the lowest risk areas, a maximum of 50% occupancy of a stadium, or 4,000 fans - whichever is smaller - will be allowed to return. In tier two, that drops to 2,000 fans or 50% capacity, whichever is smaller.

In tier three, fans will continue to be barred from grounds.




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What if the Hokey Kokey really IS what it's all about?


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 13:06
You mean one man and his dog cannot wander onto a local park whilst a game of rugger is going on.............


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 13:39
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

You mean one man and his dog cannot wander onto a local park whilst a game of rugger is going on.............

If ground is on a said park or public recreation ground and the gate is accidentally left open and no monies being taken for entry, who is to say?


Posted By: billesleyexile1
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 14:20
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

You mean one man and his dog cannot wander onto a local park whilst a game of rugger is going on.............

If ground is on a said park or public recreation ground and the gate is accidentally left open and no monies being taken for entry, who is to say?

can always charge for the programme....


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 16:55
Keep posting, Billesleyexile1, only another 500 to get back to your old level!


Posted By: billesleyexile1
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 17:10
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Keep posting, Billesleyexile1, only another 500 to get back to your old level!

I've genuinely got no idea what happened - went to log in the other week and it didn't recognise my username, posting name, email address, anything. None of them have changed... it was the fact it didn't recognise the username that totally threw me! You can't even contact an admin from that position.

Been posting one here since 2011 or whenever it was and just shut out... trying not to take it personally!


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 18:18
Originally posted by billesleyexile1 billesleyexile1 wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Keep posting, Billesleyexile1, only another 500 to get back to your old level!

I've genuinely got no idea what happened - went to log in the other week and it didn't recognise my username, posting name, email address, anything. None of them have changed... it was the fact it didn't recognise the username that totally threw me! You can't even contact an admin from that position.

Been posting one here since 2011 or whenever it was and just shut out... trying not to take it personally!

and with one bound, he was free!

you ever so slightly undershot how many posts I'd need to make by a factor of 2 Halliford! LOL


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keep the faith


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2020 at 21:38
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by billesleyexile1 billesleyexile1 wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Keep posting, Billesleyexile1, only another 500 to get back to your old level!

I've genuinely got no idea what happened - went to log in the other week and it didn't recognise my username, posting name, email address, anything. None of them have changed... it was the fact it didn't recognise the username that totally threw me! You can't even contact an admin from that position.

Been posting one here since 2011 or whenever it was and just shut out... trying not to take it personally!

and with one bound, he was free!

you ever so slightly undershot how many posts I'd need to make by a factor of 2 Halliford! LOL
Is this freedom or are you out on licence? Apologies for undershooting, I forgot that you’re trying to rival Trump for post numbers!LOL


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 09:40
So what happens now Halliford?

Kent in tier 3 as is most of the north.
Clubhouse bars stay shut.

5 days off over Xmas 

Tier 3 coming for all (apart from Cornwall who are doing their own thing anyway ) in Jan I'd say 

Whats the next move please?




Posted By: MCNRY
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 11:13
If Halifford can provide an answer within 24 hours of the government announcement, he'd be better off in power than on this forum! The word patience springs to mind....


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 16:00
I calkculate 24 NCA Clubs beinbg in Tier 3, 22 in Tier 2 and 2 (Guernsey and Redruth) being in Tier 1. Rugby can be played at every level, subject to the type of game DCMS will allow the RFU to play. At Tiers 1 and 2 Clubhouse Bars can be open provided they are serving a substantial meal. Outdoor bars are allowed provided people don't mix with another household (Tier 2) or end up in groups bigger than 6 (Tier 1).

The optimist would say, great, let's find a way of doing it!

The pessimist would say, I'll follow Scrumtime Wink


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 16:16
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

I calkculate 24 NCA Clubs beinbg in Tier 3, 22 in Tier 2 and 2 (Guernsey and Redruth) being in Tier 1. Rugby can be played at every level, subject to the type of game DCMS will allow the RFU to play. At Tiers 1 and 2 Clubhouse Bars can be open provided they are serving a substantial meal. Outdoor bars are allowed provided people don't mix with another household (Tier 2) or end up in groups bigger than 6 (Tier 1).

The optimist would say, great, let's find a way of doing it!

The pessimist would say, I'll follow Scrumtime Wink



Play nicely please!

I was asking because you are about 3 weeks ahead of the news!  

I will stand corrected but I don’t think you can travel in and out of tier 3, sport or no sport 
I see super Spurs have said no fans will be admitted from tier 3 areas. 


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2020 at 19:52
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

I calkculate 24 NCA Clubs beinbg in Tier 3, 22 in Tier 2 and 2 (Guernsey and Redruth) being in Tier 1. Rugby can be played at every level, subject to the type of game DCMS will allow the RFU to play. At Tiers 1 and 2 Clubhouse Bars can be open provided they are serving a substantial meal. Outdoor bars are allowed provided people don't mix with another household (Tier 2) or end up in groups bigger than 6 (Tier 1).

The optimist would say, great, let's find a way of doing it!

The pessimist would say, I'll follow Scrumtime Wink



Except it has already been said that Guernsey are not allowing visitors for their football team, so why would they for the rugby team?

At least Redrith can have a local comp with Launceston etc.

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RAID ON


Posted By: stonehousealbion
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2020 at 20:32
Full link:  https://www.ncarugby.com/announcements/nca-announce-groupings-for-cup-competiton/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ncarugby.com/announcements/nca-announce-groupings-for-cup-competiton/

My personal feeling is that this competition will be a test of personal/collective Covid hygiene practices as much as the usual on-field skills and the ability to adapt to the new "rugby-lite". (Which will have an interesting, hopefully entertaining, but short lifespan.)

Additionally, individual players will have varying views of the pros/cons of putting body/career/lifestyle on the line for a competition of undetermined merit.

All this sounds terribly negative and bah - humbuggy in an un-Xmas way. The NCA and participating clubs will need a lot of good luck for the Cup to succeed as intended. I fear it won't need much in the way of bad luck or decisions at all for it to misfire - or worse.

Example: A household in my family (OEs catchment area), has tested 2/3 +ve (both males, gents) after a meal out at a responsibly managed, socially distanced restaurant 9 days ago. Female parent currently awaiting second test result after displaying typical Covid symptoms since Fri am. It could all boil down to an inadequately cleaned door handle/tap/loo seat in the Gents as female initially tested -ve. (Symptoms appear to be moderating all round at this stage, thankfully.) More than any amount of stats or Govt blandishment, this has caused prolonged pause for thought on my part. Male parent is a rugby supporter straight out of R-M demographic with underlying health concerns totally under control pre-pandemic. But I can't see him rushing to attend matches in what should be the one of the most attractive groups.

As they used to say at SU debates, "This is speaking ON the subject" rather than for/against. Anyone care to try and boost my flagging optimism?


-------------
Come cheer up, my lads - 'tis to glory we steer!


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 14:47
My glass is half full.

But as someone else touched it I can't drink out of it Stern Smile


Posted By: DGS Old Boy
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2020 at 19:17
This might be a silly question but how will a club in Covid tier 3 travel to a club in Covid their 2 when it's not allowed?



Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2020 at 20:14
Originally posted by DGS Old Boy DGS Old Boy wrote:

This might be a silly question but how will a club in Covid tier 3 travel to a club in Covid their 2 when it's not allowed?



Not a silly question at all, also how can a tier 2 team return to base after playing at a tier 3 venue - again not allowed.

-------------
RAID ON


Posted By: Moseley Mauler
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 12:34
I can't believe that this competition will go ahead


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 13:01
Originally posted by Moseley Mauler Moseley Mauler wrote:

I can't believe that this competition will go ahead
Agreed.  The comp was thought up when rates in the SE were low


Posted By: BFG1
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 17:18

The RFU information on Tier restrictions is correct for amateur players but there is a subtle difference for paid players. They come under the “sport as paid employment” category and, as such, are exempt from the travel restrictions in Tier 3. Rugby does not have to be their full time profession and can be considered to be a part time job. People in this category can travel to train or play rugby matches providing they are paid. Paid coaches, physios and any paid support staff also come into to this category.

To come under this category, a person must be remunerated for rugby duties at an hourly rate no less than the National Minimum Wage hourly rate which for adults is currently £8.72. This must be evidenced by payment through a payroll system with appropriate deductions of tax and NI. My understanding is that rugby work is the time that the person is required to be at his place of work which is the training ground or a match location. Travelling time is not considered to be rugby time.

Unfortunately players who are not paid do not come under this relaxation and are governed by the Tier 3 restrictions on travel.

Some of the key Tier restrictions affecting level 3 and 4 clubs are summarized below. These should be read in conjunction with the guidelines on the RFU web site.

 

 

Aspect

 

Clubs in Tier 1 & 2

Clubs in Tier 3

Travel to training

Allowed for any players and support staff who live in Tier 1 and 2. Those who live in Tier 3 must be paid

Allowable for players and support staff in the club’s own specific Tier area. Only allowable for those living outside the specific Tier area if they  are paid

Travel to matches

No restriction for games where both clubs are in Tiers 1 and 2. For games played in Tier 3, visiting players and support staff must be paid

Allowable if all players and support staff of both clubs live within the home club’s specific Tier area or are paid.

Playing games

Allowable between clubs in Tiers 1 and 2 providing all players and support staff live in those tiers or are paid. For home game against a club from Tier 3, the away club’s players and support staff who life in a Tier 3 area must be paid. For away games to a Tier 3 club, the away team’s players and support staff must be paid

For games played in tier 3, all players and support staff for both clubs who live outside the specific Tier 3 area must be paid. For away games for clubs in Tier 3 outside their specific Tier area, all the away team’s players and support staff who live in Tier 3 areas must be paid

Spectators

Up to 2,000 socially distanced spectators following the rule of 6

none

Bar and catering

As per general Covid restriction affecting pubs and restaurants

none

Coach travel

Allowable subject to the general Covid restrictions for public transport. Your travel company can advise on these.

Allowable under the general Covid restrictions for public transport. Your travel company can advise on these.

Volunteer support staff and match officials traveling to games

They may travel across all Tiers but the RFU recommends that numbers are kept to the absolute minimum

They may travel across all Tiers but the RFU recommends that numbers are kept to the absolute minimum

Changing rooms and showers

Can be used subject to the restrictions on RFU web site

Can be used subject to the restrictions on RFU web site



Posted By: Moseley Mauler
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 17:21
What a farce. As I have already said, it won't happen....


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 18:52
Originally posted by BFG1 BFG1 wrote:

The RFU information on Tier restrictions is correct for amateur players but there is a subtle difference for paid players. They come under the “sport as paid employment” category and, as such, are exempt from the travel restrictions in Tier 3. Rugby does not have to be their full time profession and can be considered to be a part time job. People in this category can travel to train or play rugby matches providing they are paid. Paid coaches, physios and any paid support staff also come into to this category.

To come under this category, a person must be remunerated for rugby duties at an hourly rate no less than the National Minimum Wage hourly rate which for adults is currently £8.72. This must be evidenced by payment through a payroll system with appropriate deductions of tax and NI. My understanding is that rugby work is the time that the person is required to be at his place of work which is the training ground or a match location. Travelling time is not considered to be rugby time.

Unfortunately players who are not paid do not come under this relaxation and are governed by the Tier 3 restrictions on travel.

Some of the key Tier restrictions affecting level 3 and 4 clubs are summarized below. These should be read in conjunction with the guidelines on the RFU web site.

 

 

Aspect

 

Clubs in Tier 1 & 2

Clubs in Tier 3

Travel to training

Allowed for any players and support staff who live in Tier 1 and 2. Those who live in Tier 3 must be paid

Allowable for players and support staff in the club’s own specific Tier area. Only allowable for those living outside the specific Tier area if they  are paid

Travel to matches

No restriction for games where both clubs are in Tiers 1 and 2. For games played in Tier 3, visiting players and support staff must be paid

Allowable if all players and support staff of both clubs live within the home club’s specific Tier area or are paid.

Playing games

Allowable between clubs in Tiers 1 and 2 providing all players and support staff live in those tiers or are paid. For home game against a club from Tier 3, the away club’s players and support staff who life in a Tier 3 area must be paid. For away games to a Tier 3 club, the away team’s players and support staff must be paid

For games played in tier 3, all players and support staff for both clubs who live outside the specific Tier 3 area must be paid. For away games for clubs in Tier 3 outside their specific Tier area, all the away team’s players and support staff who live in Tier 3 areas must be paid

Spectators

Up to 2,000 socially distanced spectators following the rule of 6

none

Bar and catering

As per general Covid restriction affecting pubs and restaurants

none

Coach travel

Allowable subject to the general Covid restrictions for public transport. Your travel company can advise on these.

Allowable under the general Covid restrictions for public transport. Your travel company can advise on these.

Volunteer support staff and match officials traveling to games

They may travel across all Tiers but the RFU recommends that numbers are kept to the absolute minimum

They may travel across all Tiers but the RFU recommends that numbers are kept to the absolute minimum

Changing rooms and showers

Can be used subject to the restrictions on RFU web site

Can be used subject to the restrictions on RFU web site


All of which is lovely, but who is going to pay their players to play behind closed doors for the hell of it?

Seriously, I've said before that if Mose get a game on and we can go then I'll go, I just can't see it happening.


-------------
keep the faith


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 20:08
Trust me - it won't!! 


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 21:27
The chances are certainly diminishing as more areas are now in tier 3.

Roll on September, when hopefully things will have eased off with most of the country having been vaccinated - we may be able to look forward root the start of a normal rugby season.

-------------
RAID ON


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 22:33
As Donald Sutherland said in Kelly’s Heroes - what’s with the negativity? A lot of us are working with our Clubs and players to try and ensure the survival of the game. That is not based on a few elderly 
Supporters but more on the players, current and future. Let’s do our best to keep them by giving them games within the restrictions. We cannot afford to lose players to other sports which is, I’m afraid, very possible.


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 23:03
And as Lord Cardigan said as he led his cavalry at the Charge of the Light Brigade 'Come on lads give it a go you' ll be fine". My point being Halliford that positivity is all well and good but at what price? 


Posted By: BFG1
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 13:39
Well said 

Halliford


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 19:55
This season is over, especially with Furlough being extended and additional tiers . . all good for next September . . if you see the chaos in European rugby this weekend . .no Cup competition can proceed at an amateur / semi pro level.

-------------
Run with it


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 13:46
I think the best thing to happen for all, now most of SE is in tier 4 and looking at staying that way for several more weeks, will be for the NCA to scrap this as early as is possible, to give clubs a clear picture as its not going to happen, let clubs sort out local fixtures as and when they are able to.

Fair play to the NCA for trying and great effort by Mr Inverdale in his first months in charge, but several clubs give way to Cricket at the start of May and will lose their ground to the boys in Whites, for several the option of going on to play in May is not a possibility. 






Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2020 at 18:48
Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

This season is over, especially with Furlough being extended and additional tiers . . all good for next September . . if you see the chaos in European rugby this weekend . .no Cup competition can proceed at an amateur / semi pro level.


Agreed, what a shambles - 4 games cancelled, some kick-off times changed and broadcasting channels changed.

Set recordings for all of the games, almost missed the Gloucester v Ulster game - I suspect it was moved from BT3 to BT2 following a cancellation - unfortunately the scheduled recording of the cancelled game was deleted and the scheduled recording of Glos game didn't move.

Luckily, for some reason I checked just before kick-off.

-------------
RAID ON


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2020 at 14:37
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

This season is over, especially with Furlough being extended and additional tiers . . all good for next September . . if you see the chaos in European rugby this weekend . .no Cup competition can proceed at an amateur / semi pro level.


Agreed, what a shambles - 4 games cancelled, some kick-off times changed and broadcasting channels changed.

Set recordings for all of the games, almost missed the Gloucester v Ulster game - I suspect it was moved from BT3 to BT2 following a cancellation - unfortunately the scheduled recording of the cancelled game was deleted and the scheduled recording of Glos game didn't move.

Luckily, for some reason I checked just before kick-off.

I checked at half-time so only saw the second half. Glad I did!


Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2020 at 22:42
Any responsible DoR or Chairman would be announcing their clubs immediate withdrawal sighting players, staff and supporters as their reason for doing so.

Safety is far more important than rugby this season, I miss it as much as anyone but its a very easy sacrifice to make as opposed to the ones who have and are going to continue to lose loved ones 


Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2020 at 22:46
Between our collective clubs it must be hundreds of loved ones we have lost collectively 

How on earth could rugby be considered with lives at stake


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 07:41
Originally posted by front5 front5 wrote:

Any responsible DoR or Chairman would be announcing their clubs immediate withdrawal sighting players, staff and supporters as their reason for doing so.

Safety is far more important than rugby this season, I miss it as much as anyone but its a very easy sacrifice to make as opposed to the ones who have and are going to continue to lose loved ones 

Totally agree 



Posted By: DGS Old Boy
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 10:25
Originally posted by front5 front5 wrote:

Any responsible DoR or Chairman would be announcing their clubs immediate withdrawal sighting players, staff and supporters as their reason for doing so.

Safety is far more important than rugby this season, I miss it as much as anyone but its a very easy sacrifice to make as opposed to the ones who have and are going to continue to lose loved ones 

100% agree this season should be just written off, start again next season.


Posted By: DGS Old Boy
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 10:30
I'm turned 70 and in the high risk bracket, and whilst I love watching rugby and catching up with old friends, I will be reluctant to go to any games until such times as I have had the Vaccine.
  


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 15:56
Originally posted by DGS Old Boy DGS Old Boy wrote:

I'm turned 70 and in the high risk bracket, and whilst I love watching rugby and catching up with old friends, I will be reluctant to go to any games until such times as I have had the Vaccine.
  


Not quite as old, but my sentiments exactly.

I certainly won't be going to watch these cup matches even if I am allowed to.

Hopefully vaccinated before September and we can start with proper rugby.

-------------
RAID ON


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 16:01
What beautiful words "proper rugby"!! 


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 17:29
Please make sure you tell your Clubs you’re not coming so that they can plan accordingly! I’ll be watching but as Club Secretary it’s probably expected of me. Stay safe in the way you choose!


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 13:15
Rates heading back up sharply in Leeds, tier 4 surely beckoning for most places tomorrow.  Hard to see how any meaningful competition can be completed over the next few months, surely?

-------------
That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 13:35
Yes it looks all best laid plans with be for nothing as all Tier 3s will move to tier 4

-------------
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 14:25
Maybe some tier 2s too.

-------------
That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: Puli.
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 14:32
With what is happening around the country I cannot see any competitive rugby being played below Premiership level before next September. And the  Premiership could be curtailed as well. 

-------------
If Rugby is the game they play in Heaven ..... Why does it hurt like Hell when you retire?


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 15:53
With games being cancelled in the Premiership and French teams pulling out of the European Cup, I can the lot closing down soon.


Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2020 at 00:42
I can’t believe anyone would actually want to play.

Must be mad or in denial


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2020 at 09:47
I know a few of my friends who would agree I must have been mad to play rugby for 25 years! With no test and trace system in place and restrictions tightening, sadly it seems unlikely we will get any rugby before all vulnerable people have received a vaccine, likely to be 12 weeks according to HanHuckleberry on the BBC this morning.


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2020 at 10:58
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

I know a few of my friends who would agree I must have been mad to play rugby for 25 years! With no test and trace system in place and restrictions tightening, sadly it seems unlikely we will get any rugby before all vulnerable people have received a vaccine, likely to be 12 weeks according to HanHuckleberry on the BBC this morning.

Agree with you Halliford and as our friend Front 5 said a few weeks ago, it's time for D of R's and Clubs to make a call.

I think people might just wait to see what todays UK Gov news brings then I think several will pull the plug and look to reboot in July for pre season. 

NCA have done their best but this looks like we have a major battle on our hands with people not taking advice, knowing better and therefore this is out of control again.


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2020 at 08:54
Halliford after last night’s announcement 
What are your thoughts on this cup comp being played?
Or do they say season over hit reset button for pre season in July?? 


Posted By: DGS Old Boy
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2020 at 11:06
Originally posted by Scrumtime Scrumtime wrote:

Halliford after last night’s announcement 
What are your thoughts on this cup comp being played?
Or do they say season over hit reset button for pre season in July?? 

Now Darlington is classed in tier 4 DMP aren't allowed to play or travel or even train I think, so in my view that should mean draw a line under 2020 and prepare for September 2021 sad though it may be. CryCry



Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2020 at 13:36
Originally posted by Scrumtime Scrumtime wrote:

Halliford after last night’s announcement 
What are your thoughts on this cup comp being played?
Or do they say season over hit reset button for pre season in July?? 

It's looking less likely, isn't it? The optimist in me hopes that we will still be able to play in March as a result of the tighter lockdown in January and increasing levels of vaccination. My biggest concern is getting income into the Club this summer. The NCA Cup will help the players but getting Bar and Event income during the summer to help with next season is getting to be crucial for us and most Clubs, I'm sure. I haven't spoken to the players since before Christmas so don't know how they feel, I suspect they still want to play but the case levels in our area have risen steeply in the last two weeks. I'm not surprised having seen how crowded some areas get, even open spaces! It was impossible to get a parking place in Bushey Park at 1100 yesterday!

https://fb.watch/2JzCqAl9Pq/" rel="nofollow - https://fb.watch/2JzCqAl9Pq/ this from the NCA today.


Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2020 at 21:50
As far as I am lead to believe a lot of clubs still have majority of full time playing staff on furlough,  by default this would mean they should not be training etc. 

So unless clubs have already withdrawn their playing staff from the furlough scheme, which I would think be unlikely without income to fulfill the financial responsibilities, 

The proposed cup competition was always a bit of a non-starter.


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 07:21
Full time playing staff in Premiership and Championship but doubt there are any below that. 

-------------
Cauliflower ear


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2021 at 12:52
I believe any players who are on contract, and they all should be, could have been furloughed and would have been able to claim based their match fees for the previous months. It might not have been much but better than nothing.


-------------
Blood and Sand


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2021 at 08:56
Camquin: Very interesting post you have put up.

So let me then ask you a question.

Am  I to read from what you have said in your statement that Cambridge have furloughed all their players under contract and are paying them match fees though the UK Gov scheme?




Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2021 at 09:39
I am not on the committee.  But that is my understanding based on the statements made at the AGM.
It might only have been those contracted to provide coaching to schools who could be furloughed.

The Vipers academy has continued to operate and the boys are working towards their BTechs, so those coaching there are presumably still working.


-------------
Blood and Sand


Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2021 at 10:02
Having spoken to the powers that be in my old club regularly throughout this, my understanding is that pay to play contracts, match fees etc weren't covered by the furlough. Only those contracted with guaranteed amounts every month could be furloughed. Our Chairman is absolutely on the ball and claimed absolutely everything possible - but as all our players are on pay to play that didn't cover them. I assume that if it had been possible we would have done it. Only the coaches, medical people and bar/clubhouse staff were furloughed. I may be wrong though.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2021 at 10:18
I bow to superior knowledge.

Though I do not see the difference between bar staff and players, both working odd shifts based on when games fall. But as I do not employ anyone myself, I have not spent time reading the regulations.

I know the county cricketers had a problem that if they were furloughed they could not use the club facilities to train - as that would be paid work.


-------------
Blood and Sand


Posted By: Welshie7
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2021 at 10:41
Championship players were able to train at their clubs whilst remaining on initial furlough scheme without penalty.


Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2021 at 14:38
Originally posted by Scrumtime Scrumtime wrote:

Camquin: Very interesting post you have put up.

So let me then ask you a question.

Am  I to read from what you have said in your statement that Cambridge have furloughed all their players under contract and are paying them match fees though the UK Gov scheme?



Cambridge who were one of the first to go cap in hand with a crowdfund trying to raise over £40k to ‘stay afloat’.

Quite despicable attitudes from what is only a community rugby club.


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2021 at 14:21
Only a community rugby club? Isn't that something to be proud of?

As for crowdfunding surely everyone has the right to crowdfund (for legal purposes) and everyone has the right to ignore it.


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2021 at 14:39
Going off at a tangent slightly but what exactly constitutes a "Community club"? We could all put our own slant on it but is there an official definition?
It does not appear to have any bearing on what level your 1st XV play at as clubs as high as the Championship are, or at least claim to be, a community club (for example Ampthill, I haven't checked for others) whereas other clubs who you took for granted would be community clubs playing at the lower levels yet fill very few of what we might class as necessary criteria. Such clubs just run a pro or semi-pro 1st XV squad and very little else with no lower senior teams and very little activity in terms of M & J's



Posted By: Dagfish
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2021 at 18:58
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Going off at a tangent slightly but what exactly constitutes a "Community club"? We could all put our own slant on it but is there an official definition?
It does not appear to have any bearing on what level your 1st XV play at as clubs as high as the Championship are, or at least claim to be, a community club (for example Ampthill, I haven't checked for others) whereas other clubs who you took for granted would be community clubs playing at the lower levels yet fill very few of what we might class as necessary criteria. Such clubs just run a pro or semi-pro 1st XV squad and very little else with no lower senior teams and very little activity in terms of M & J's

There's a page on the RFU website discussing Community Amateur Sports Clubs - see  https:///www.englandrugby.com/participation/running-your-club/legal-and-administration/casc" rel="nofollow - https:///www.englandrugby.com/participation/running-your-club/legal-and-administration/casc

Basically, it has to be member-owned, non-profit-making, and must have 50% of the membership participating in the sport.


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2021 at 19:40
Thanks for the link Dagfish but how do pro clubs manage to 'brand' themselves in that category if its meant to cover amateur rugby? 



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