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Saracens & Ealing

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Forum Name: The Championship
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Topic: Saracens & Ealing
Posted By: Bedfordian
Subject: Saracens & Ealing
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2020 at 07:07
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-8906987/Saracens-set-promotion-Premiership-without-playing-single-game.html#newcomment" rel="nofollow - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-8906987/Saracens-set-promotion-Premiership-without-playing-single-game.html#newcomment



Replies:
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2020 at 07:43
That better not happen - I would expect the Championship to legally challenge both moves and block it at all attempts.

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2020 at 08:15
The thing is, with no National League 1 there's no promotion to and relegation out from the Championship. PRL know full well that not having Sarries in the Prem for 21/22 will leave a financial hole for some of the Clubs in terms of revenue on match days. Therefore with the RFU League restructuring pushed back to 22/23 this gives a window of opportunity to enlarge the Prem without Sarries going thru the formality of playing in the Championship, Ealing would probably be the biggest objector with the biggest bank account for a legal challenge. By inviting both PRL dodge any possible legal threats as I doubt anyone else will want to waste money on a legal bid they most likely lose.

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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2020 at 10:27
Not sure this really passes the smell test but then nothing about PRL smells particularly good these days. From my perspective it would be an unsatisfactory way to get into the Premiership without having earned the right via legitimate promotion.

Nothing about the 20/21 season is normal though, I can see a series of friendlies taking place but not a full blown league season unfortunately.

For what it's worth, I am in favour of a 'Premiership 2' league made up of fully professional clubs irrespective of facilities, with a 10 team 'Premiership 1' league.


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2020 at 13:14
Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

For what it's worth, I am in favour of a 'Premiership 2' league made up of fully professional clubs irrespective of facilities, with a 10 team 'Premiership 1' league.
Great suggestion particularly if its backed up with a cup competition involving the teams in both leagues and ideally automatically two teams promoted/relegated each year. 

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2020 at 13:29
If this is true, what really gets me is that rugby has everything going for it on the pitch, starting with the most important word in the world ... respect.
This starts with the U6’s and goes all of the way through to the international game. Most other sports look up to rugby and are envious.

Off of the pitch however..............   .


Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2020 at 19:30
Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

If this is true, what really gets me is that rugby has everything going for it on the pitch, starting with the most important word in the world ... respect.
This starts with the U6’s and goes all of the way through to the international game. Most other sports look up to rugby and are envious.

Off of the pitch however..............   .

It's the Daily Mail Brizzer, of course it's not true... Big smile


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2020 at 22:52
'For what it's worth, I am in favour of a 'Premiership 2' league made up of fully professional clubs irrespective of facilities, with a 10 team 'Premiership 1' league.
Great suggestion particularly if its backed up with a cup competition involving the teams in both leagues and ideally automatically two teams promoted/relegated each year. '

Gents of the current 12 Premiership teams at least 3 are almost already in the financial waste basket. Only Saracens and Ealing in the Championship can afford after this season to remain full time. We will be lucky to have one league of 12 full time teams going forward- a second professional league is simply dreaming.


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2020 at 14:20
I heard that there are several Premiership as well as Championship clubs will run out of cash in the next few months!  There may not be 12 Premiership clubs to join.

Pretty much all Premiership clubs can’t afford the Premiership without their 1 or few wealthy owner/investors.  They can disappear quickly and hard to replace.


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2020 at 16:08
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

If this is true, what really gets me is that rugby has everything going for it on the pitch, starting with the most important word in the world ... respect.
This starts with the U6’s and goes all of the way through to the international game. Most other sports look up to rugby and are envious.

Off of the pitch however..............   .

It's the Daily Mail Brizzer, of course it's not true... Big smile

That's what Saracens fans were saying when the Daily Mail broke the news about their cheating and then dug up so much evidence PRL could no longer sweep it under the carpet.


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 15:35
The sum mentioned is £ 20 million to buy 'P' shares in the Premiership to enable Ealing Trailfinders to literally buy their way in !.
I would have liked Ealing to have been promoted into the Premiership but would any club who had the money turn that opportunity down ?.
How many chances will there ever be before it is truly ringfenced. The decision is  solely Mike Gooleys owner of Trailfinders. 


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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 15:54
Surely, in a sensibly-run sporting competition, 20 million would be far better spent on a suitable stadium?
But then, this is rugby.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: PlangentThrowback
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 09:19
I fail to see the logic of Ealing as a choice (other than an owner with money), what's the point of yet another Premiership club in west London?  It's about four miles from Trailfinders to Brentford stadium, a bit more from Brentford to the Stoop.  Why not pick Pirates or Doncaster or, yes, Cov (Wasps could do with the money)?  It's not a suggestion that makes much sense.

As for $aracen$, it's a club that cheated for years and if its decision to accept relegation rather than demonstrate for all to see that it was still cheating rebounds on it due to unforeseeable circumstances then I say 'tough, shouldn't have cheated'.




Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 10:01
The owner with money is the logic. Whilst I agree about the geography none of the other clubs have anywhere near the financial strength or facilities required to even compete in the Premiership. Given the current economic circumstances they all find themselves in their thoughts must surely be on financial survival in the Championship rather than looking upwards.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 11:33
Without funding from the RFu - or a TV contract - the Championship cannot exist as anything other than semi-pro.

Assuming Ealing and Saracens go up - you will need 6 (or possibly more) clubs from leaghue 1 to step up. This would be the only national league.

Then we can regionalise underneath that. Possibly with 14 team leagues to give players  a little more time off to recover.  And I believe three conferences is about right.



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Blood and Sand


Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 12:08
Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

I fail to see the logic of Ealing as a choice (other than an owner with money), what's the point of yet another Premiership club in west London?  It's about four miles from Trailfinders to Brentford stadium, a bit more from Brentford to the Stoop.  Why not pick Pirates or Doncaster or, yes, Cov (Wasps could do with the money)?  It's not a suggestion that makes much sense.

As for $aracen$, it's a club that cheated for years and if its decision to accept relegation rather than demonstrate for all to see that it was still cheating rebounds on it due to unforeseeable circumstances then I say 'tough, shouldn't have cheated'.



I can see numerous reasons why Ealing, they've consistently finished 2nd in the last 3 seasons losing out to the relegated PRL Side. They have infrastructure that already would be of envy to some premiership sides and have plans to add to this (an indoor training facility i believe is on the way). Being based in West London, provides the potential for alot of future supporters coupled with the fact that the area is a rugby hotbed. 

Saracens are one of the leading sides in England, yes they were caught breaking the salary cap but who says others aren't at the same time?. They were winning titles in Europe versus sides with bigger budgets than them.... I believe the French league handled their incident alot better....
I do believe that in the future we should have a side in Cornwall and Yorkshire but i don't believe either side are ready, ET are.






Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 12:09
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Surely, in a sensibly-run sporting competition, 20 million would be far better spent on a suitable stadium?
But then, this is rugby.
I do feel that this is a number that's been inflated by the media, Exeter paid £5 million for theirs.


Posted By: Capt Sparrow
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 12:40
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

I fail to see the logic of Ealing as a choice (other than an owner with money), what's the point of yet another Premiership club in west London?  It's about four miles from Trailfinders to Brentford stadium, a bit more from Brentford to the Stoop.  Why not pick Pirates or Doncaster or, yes, Cov (Wasps could do with the money)?  It's not a suggestion that makes much sense.

As for $aracen$, it's a club that cheated for years and if its decision to accept relegation rather than demonstrate for all to see that it was still cheating rebounds on it due to unforeseeable circumstances then I say 'tough, shouldn't have cheated'.



I can see numerous reasons why Ealing, they've consistently finished 2nd in the last 3 seasons losing out to the relegated PRL Side. They have infrastructure that already would be of envy to some premiership sides and have plans to add to this (an indoor training facility i believe is on the way). Being based in West London, provides the potential for alot of future supporters coupled with the fact that the area is a rugby hotbed. 

Saracens are one of the leading sides in England, yes they were caught breaking the salary cap but who says others aren't at the same time?. They were winning titles in Europe versus sides with bigger budgets than them.... I believe the French league handled their incident alot better....
I do believe that in the future we should have a side in Cornwall and Yorkshire but i don't believe either side are ready, ET are.









Excuse me but ET did not finish 2nd last season as the league was not completed, Pirates were only one point behind with a superior points difference and still had to play them. Seeing as we beat them 30-10 in our first encounter it was not a foregone conclusion that ET would have won the return. also they still had to play Newcastle and we didn't so anything could have happened.ET as yet do not have a Premier ready ground same as Pirates,

In short the only criteria for an team wanting promotion should qualify on the field of play and earn it by winning the league NOT buying the place in the PL.


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 12:57
Clap

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 13:05
You also have to factor in some clubs may have been holding back due to the fact that the existing relegated club comes down with a mighty nice parachute payment that gives them an advantage so playing for second potentially wasn't so tantalising a concept for these clubs - but if a decision was made to promote the top 2 teams and that they would get a fair share of the apple when in the premiership, I think a number of teams would give it a push - at which point would Ealing finish second? Perhaps, but then again perhaps not with the likes of Pirates, Cov, Donny and a couple of others also keen to explore this opportunity I doubt Ealing would be the lone challenger.

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 14:31
That is fair, although they did finish 2nd with the use of the Best Playing Formula. And id predict as a minimum they'd finish 2nd again this year.
I do feel that in the future sides from Yorkshire and Cornwall should/need to be included however i feel Ealing are the best/most likely option at this time.





Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 15:16
Are Doncaster ready for the step up.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: KnightsBoy
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 15:39
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Are Doncaster ready for the step up.

Always 😉


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 19:21
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Surely, in a sensibly-run sporting competition, 20 million would be far better spent on a suitable stadium?
But then, this is rugby.
I do feel that this is a number that's been inflated by the media, Exeter paid £5 million for theirs.
Seriously?
5 million might buy you a half-decent grandstand.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 20:42
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Surely, in a sensibly-run sporting competition, 20 million would be far better spent on a suitable stadium?
But then, this is rugby.
I do feel that this is a number that's been inflated by the media, Exeter paid £5 million for theirs.
Seriously?
5 million might buy you a half-decent grandstand.
http://web.archive.org/web/20111013062307/www.exeterchiefs.co.uk/history" rel="nofollow - £15 million in 2006.


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 20:56
Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Surely, in a sensibly-run sporting competition, 20 million would be far better spent on a suitable stadium?
But then, this is rugby.
I do feel that this is a number that's been inflated by the media, Exeter paid £5 million for theirs.
Seriously?
5 million might buy you a half-decent grandstand.
http://web.archive.org/web/20111013062307/www.exeterchiefs.co.uk/history" rel="nofollow - £15 million in 2006.
Quite.
York City's new Community Stadium comes in at around 44 million, while Boston United's tiny new Quadrant is slated to be around the 12 million mark.
Neither would be Prem-compliant (Boston's nowhere near it).


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 07:24
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Surely, in a sensibly-run sporting competition, 20 million would be far better spent on a suitable stadium?
But then, this is rugby.
I do feel that this is a number that's been inflated by the media, Exeter paid £5 million for theirs.
Seriously?
5 million might buy you a half-decent grandstand.
http://web.archive.org/web/20111013062307/www.exeterchiefs.co.uk/history" rel="nofollow - £15 million in 2006.
Quite.
York City's new Community Stadium comes in at around 44 million, while Boston United's tiny new Quadrant is slated to be around the 12 million mark.
Neither would be Prem-compliant (Boston's nowhere near it).

Vallis Way already hosted a season of Super League and the Tyrell's 15 finals. I think it could get to Prem standard without starting over from the existing 2000 covered seats.


Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 08:22
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Surely, in a sensibly-run sporting competition, 20 million would be far better spent on a suitable stadium?
But then, this is rugby.
I do feel that this is a number that's been inflated by the media, Exeter paid £5 million for theirs.
Seriously?
5 million might buy you a half-decent grandstand.
http://web.archive.org/web/20111013062307/www.exeterchiefs.co.uk/history" rel="nofollow - £15 million in 2006.
Quite.
York City's new Community Stadium comes in at around 44 million, while Boston United's tiny new Quadrant is slated to be around the 12 million mark.
Neither would be Prem-compliant (Boston's nowhere near it).

I better look for that Euro Lotto ticket, guess a £10 might buy a brick for a needy club.


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Old enough to know better...just wish I knew what


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 09:44
Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Surely, in a sensibly-run sporting competition, 20 million would be far better spent on a suitable stadium?
But then, this is rugby.
I do feel that this is a number that's been inflated by the media, Exeter paid £5 million for theirs.
Seriously?
5 million might buy you a half-decent grandstand.
http://web.archive.org/web/20111013062307/www.exeterchiefs.co.uk/history" rel="nofollow - £15 million in 2006.
Quite.
York City's new Community Stadium comes in at around 44 million, while Boston United's tiny new Quadrant is slated to be around the 12 million mark.
Neither would be Prem-compliant (Boston's nowhere near it).

Vallis Way already hosted a season of Super League and the Tyrell's 15 finals. I think it could get to Prem standard without starting over from the existing 2000 covered seats.
No question.
Temporary grandstands can be bought or rented very quickly, but the associated essential hospitality facilities then become the issue.
Ideally, and what some other clubs are planning for, permanent buildings with extravagant yardage of pitch-overlooking hospitality would be required, with the associated infrastructure to back them.
This is where the substantial monetary investment comes in.
Of course, I have no idea as to your owner's intention on that score, but if it's in the plans, then good for him.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 11:24
Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

I fail to see the logic of Ealing as a choice (other than an owner with money), what's the point of yet another Premiership club in west London?  It's about four miles from Trailfinders to Brentford stadium, a bit more from Brentford to the Stoop.  Why not pick Pirates or Doncaster or, yes, Cov (Wasps could do with the money)?  It's not a suggestion that makes much sense.

As for $aracen$, it's a club that cheated for years and if its decision to accept relegation rather than demonstrate for all to see that it was still cheating rebounds on it due to unforeseeable circumstances then I say 'tough, shouldn't have cheated'.



I agree about Saracens, they refused to open their books and expose the true extent of the `cheating` over numerous years. They preferred to accept the demotion and obviously expected to bounce straight back into the Premiership.

The geographic spread Nationwide just does not work. Yorkshire Carnegie are the prime example. The principle that all rugby supporters from miles around would flock to see Yorkshire Carnegie in a massive Stadium just did not transpire.  I think we all need to realise the limited appeal of rugby union to the paying public. The best supported team in the Championship , Bedford can not afford to maintain a professional squad . They abandoned their excellent development teams because of spiralling costs.

Ealing Trailfinders through the ` wealthy benefactor` Mike Gooley have become the most sustainable team around. The grounds are close to 20 acres and have been continuously developed over 20 years. The site is used day and night with multiple revenues. The latest is a huge indoor training facility, about to be constructed. Rugby Union, Rugby League, football, cricket, Netball, Gaelic football ,public gym , commercial Nursery, weddings, conferences, film and TV venue

Mike Gooley has created a legacy and a long term commitment to Rugby  by creating a scholarship system at Brunel University where young Rugby talent are coming from all over the country and some from existing Premiership Academies. There is a partnership with Henley College ( ex Wasp`s Academy site ) for ACE scheme to flourish with talented players from the age of sixteen both studying and receiving top flight rugby coaching from the Ealing pro coaches.

The Amateur section of the Club Ealing Trailfinders 1871 is going from strength to strength . I witnessed a few weeks ago three teams playing opposition, two  amateur Wasp`s and Harlequins and they were able to sit outside and have a beer . There was an event upstairs / outside to watch the England game . 

The current U16`s have a squad close to 50 players ! and attendance two weeks ago was at a record 43 players  on a Sunday morning and Ealing were abled to support the squad with nine qualified coaches.

There is so much more but I feel that maybe enough of blowing the trumpet for Ealing Trailfinders but they are not comparable to any other club in my biased opinion.



I accept that I am biased but I cannot see any other club coming close in being the right team to be accepted to the Premiership. 




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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 11:48
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

I fail to see the logic of Ealing as a choice (other than an owner with money), what's the point of yet another Premiership club in west London?  It's about four miles from Trailfinders to Brentford stadium, a bit more from Brentford to the Stoop.  Why not pick Pirates or Doncaster or, yes, Cov (Wasps could do with the money)?  It's not a suggestion that makes much sense.

As for $aracen$, it's a club that cheated for years and if its decision to accept relegation rather than demonstrate for all to see that it was still cheating rebounds on it due to unforeseeable circumstances then I say 'tough, shouldn't have cheated'.




I can see numerous reasons why Ealing, they've consistently finished 2nd in the last 3 seasons losing out to the relegated PRL Side. They have infrastructure that already would be of envy to some premiership sides and have plans to add to this (an indoor training facility i believe is on the way). Being based in West London, provides the potential for alot of future supporters coupled with the fact that the area is a rugby hotbed. 

Saracens are one of the leading sides in England, yes they were caught breaking the salary cap but who says others aren't at the same time?. They were winning titles in Europe versus sides with bigger budgets than them.... I believe the French league handled their incident alot better....
I do believe that in the future we should have a side in Cornwall and Yorkshire but i don't believe either side are ready, ET are.






Not sure West London is a rugby hotbed - you only have to look at the crowds that Barnes, LIWG and Rosslyn Pk get to prove this is incorrect.

Out of those mentioned, Pirates in the South West or Doncaster in South Yorkshire would seem to be better bets.

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RAID ON


Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 13:09
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

I fail to see the logic of Ealing as a choice (other than an owner with money), what's the point of yet another Premiership club in west London?  It's about four miles from Trailfinders to Brentford stadium, a bit more from Brentford to the Stoop.  Why not pick Pirates or Doncaster or, yes, Cov (Wasps could do with the money)?  It's not a suggestion that makes much sense.

As for $aracen$, it's a club that cheated for years and if its decision to accept relegation rather than demonstrate for all to see that it was still cheating rebounds on it due to unforeseeable circumstances then I say 'tough, shouldn't have cheated'.




I can see numerous reasons why Ealing, they've consistently finished 2nd in the last 3 seasons losing out to the relegated PRL Side. They have infrastructure that already would be of envy to some premiership sides and have plans to add to this (an indoor training facility i believe is on the way). Being based in West London, provides the potential for alot of future supporters coupled with the fact that the area is a rugby hotbed. 

Saracens are one of the leading sides in England, yes they were caught breaking the salary cap but who says others aren't at the same time?. They were winning titles in Europe versus sides with bigger budgets than them.... I believe the French league handled their incident alot better....
I do believe that in the future we should have a side in Cornwall and Yorkshire but i don't believe either side are ready, ET are.






Not sure West London is a rugby hotbed - you only have to look at the crowds that Barnes, LIWG and Rosslyn Pk get to prove this is incorrect.

Out of those mentioned, Pirates in the South West or Doncaster in South Yorkshire would seem to be better bets.

The national stadium, 2 premiership sides and 3 championship sides would constituent any location to be a hotbed for rugby, in my opinion. Supported by the huge number of amateur players that are within that area.
Rosslyn Park according to the last complete set of data averaged 655 through the gate, and with LIWG i'd argue it was a number of factors.1) They're not the flagship side for their club, that's the Premiership side. 2) They're not really in London, they're more to Surrey. 3) They've experienced a poor run of form in recent years, which has seen them drop from L4 to L6.



Posted By: PlangentThrowback
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 13:45
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

I can see numerous reasons why Ealing, they've consistently finished 2nd in the last 3 seasons losing out to the relegated PRL Side. They have infrastructure that already would be of envy to some premiership sides and have plans to add to this (an indoor training facility i believe is on the way). Being based in West London, provides the potential for alot of future supporters coupled with the fact that the area is a rugby hotbed. 

Saracens are one of the leading sides in England, yes they were caught breaking the salary cap but who says others aren't at the same time?. They were winning titles in Europe versus sides with bigger budgets than them.... I believe the French league handled their incident alot better....
I do believe that in the future we should have a side in Cornwall and Yorkshire but i don't believe either side are ready, ET are.

Aside from the fact that ET haven't finished second because the season wasn't finished, what facilities do they have that a Premiership club would envy?  All the others have better facilities except Bath have a pawpaw stadium but has an outstanding training ground, Wasps has a fine stadium but pawpaw training.

The evidence that west London is a hotbed for professional rugby is severely lacking.  None of the current clubs other than 'Quins attract support in any numbers.  Some Premiership clubs get crowds for a single game that exceed those of Ealing's entire season.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 13:47
The good train links meant a lot of the London clubs bought old market gardens round there.
Many were failing as rail made it easy to bring food in from further away. 


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 12:54
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

I fail to see the logic of Ealing as a choice (other than an owner with money), what's the point of yet another Premiership club in west London?  It's about four miles from Trailfinders to Brentford stadium, a bit more from Brentford to the Stoop.  Why not pick Pirates or Doncaster or, yes, Cov (Wasps could do with the money)?  It's not a suggestion that makes much sense.

As for $aracen$, it's a club that cheated for years and if its decision to accept relegation rather than demonstrate for all to see that it was still cheating rebounds on it due to unforeseeable circumstances then I say 'tough, shouldn't have cheated'.




I can see numerous reasons why Ealing, they've consistently finished 2nd in the last 3 seasons losing out to the relegated PRL Side. They have infrastructure that already would be of envy to some premiership sides and have plans to add to this (an indoor training facility i believe is on the way). Being based in West London, provides the potential for alot of future supporters coupled with the fact that the area is a rugby hotbed. 

Saracens are one of the leading sides in England, yes they were caught breaking the salary cap but who says others aren't at the same time?. They were winning titles in Europe versus sides with bigger budgets than them.... I believe the French league handled their incident alot better....
I do believe that in the future we should have a side in Cornwall and Yorkshire but i don't believe either side are ready, ET are.






Not sure West London is a rugby hotbed - you only have to look at the crowds that Barnes, LIWG and Rosslyn Pk get to prove this is incorrect.

Out of those mentioned, Pirates in the South West or Doncaster in South Yorkshire would seem to be better bets.


The national stadium, 2 premiership sides and 3 championship sides would constituent any location to be a hotbed for rugby, in my opinion. Supported by the huge number of amateur players that are within that area.
Rosslyn Park according to the last complete set of data averaged 655 through the gate, and with LIWG i'd argue it was a number of factors.1) They're not the flagship side for their club, that's the Premiership side. 2) They're not really in London, they're more to Surrey. 3) They've experienced a poor run of form in recent years, which has seen them drop from L4 to L6.



The national stadium doesn't make it a hotbed - just somewhere people from all over the country congregate to watch England play - hence it is the national stadium.

LIWG, are now down a couple of levels but even when in N2S were poorly supported - they are a different club from London Irish.

I notice you omitted to say anything about Barnes - says it all really.

An average of 655 at RP doesn't make them well supported IMO.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 15:29
To be perfectly frank, 655 at the top end of level 3 is pish poor.

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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 19:02
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

To be perfectly frank, 655 at the top end of level 3 is pish poor.


Totally agree

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RAID ON


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 07:07
If the Championship starts why would the winners be promoted?

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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Fly Half
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 08:16
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

To be perfectly frank, 655 at the top end of level 3 is pish poor.


It is very poor and from my experience an announced 'crowd' of 655 probably means that the true paying attendance was in the order of 350/400.


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 08:58
I'm sure HRMC will be pleased gates are being understated. 

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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 09:51
The best Stadium outside Twickenham is Darlington Mowden Park is can seat 28,000. Full hospitality and Big bars for supporters, However they rarely get more than 800 spectators and only use one side. Whilst they have been in Nat 1 for a number of years they cannot make the break though into the Championship and are not able to fund their plans for the future especially as they are not able at present to hold any off field events. This is always the problem with clubs who have big overheads and are unable to provide any income to fund them and this is not just a Covid issue. You can count on the fingers of one hand those clubs who have succeeded Exeter being the best Example. 


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 14:24
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

The best Stadium outside Twickenham is Darlington Mowden Park is can seat 28,000. Full hospitality and Big bars for supporters, However they rarely get more than 800 spectators and only use one side. Whilst they have been in Nat 1 for a number of years they cannot make the break though into the Championship and are not able to fund their plans for the future especially as they are not able at present to hold any off field events. This is always the problem with clubs who have big overheads and are unable to provide any income to fund them and this is not just a Covid issue. You can count on the fingers of one hand those clubs who have succeeded Exeter being the best Example. 

Best Stadium? I think not. Biggest maybe.


Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 15:55
I am sure that if you have been into the main entrance you would have been impressed, the only club I know with a Lift and elevators, a main function room on the first floor, with a night club at the other end. On the ground floor a main bar under one stand and a large public lounge along side. On the third floor a directors lounge and restaurant and private boxes. The area under the stand for changing rooms is so big a referee could not find the way out. Secure car parking for several hundred cars and additional land which the club was hoping to develop a multi sports facility and an  all weather pitch which is currently on hold. If they can get their commercial operations right they have the facilities which are much better that most of the current Premier league teams. However that is the problem, together with their location that they are too far North for the RFU .


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 19:21
TBF, I think the main problem is that (thus far) they just aren't good enough to get out of the third division. That's not the RFU's fault.

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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 19:57
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

I am sure that if you have been into the main entrance you would have been impressed, the only club I know with a Lift and elevators, a main function room on the first floor, with a night club at the other end. On the ground floor a main bar under one stand and a large public lounge along side. On the third floor a directors lounge and restaurant and private boxes. The area under the stand for changing rooms is so big a referee could not find the way out. Secure car parking for several hundred cars and additional land which the club was hoping to develop a multi sports facility and an  all weather pitch which is currently on hold. If they can get their commercial operations right they have the facilities which are much better that most of the current Premier league teams. However that is the problem, together with their location that they are too far North for the RFU .


On the face of it, very impressive - however there is a lot to maintain when crowds are averaging 800 per game and an even bigger millstone when there are no games/crowds.

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RAID ON


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 07:32
Workerbee - come visit Castle Park the things you mentioned are pretty much available here too.....

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: PlangentThrowback
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 08:56
Whilst buying the arena at a good price, performance on the pitch hasn't matched up to it and the running costs (even with some conference/meeting income) must be horrendous even before lockdown restrictions. I suppose it can always be sold for housing as was going to happen before MP stepped in.

I agree about Castle Park, always my favourite away trip, and a model of how to develop a ground.  Just the right size, good facilities and space to expand if the situation warrants.  Surely a better proposition than Ealing if the Premiership wants to bring in another club (leaving aside all the issues about financial backing etc).


Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 09:03
That bar under Doncaster’s main stand is like a concrete bunker. 
Mowden Park’s arena is in need of a good lick of paint to day the least 


Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 09:41
I have been to Doncaster's ground and it is very impressive, However even they cannot fit in 28,000 into their ground. It would seem that there are only a handful of stadiums that could meet Premiership criteria and even Ealing are considering moving if the chance of premiership was on offer with a 14 team league. 
I agree that Darlington Mowden Park have found that the stadium has been a millstone around their neck and have been struggling to make it pay. You are quite right the running costs must be horrendous and it will only work if Non Match day revenue covers the running costs. In theory it was a great idea and getting it for a knock down price seemed a no brainer unfortunately they did not have the infrastructure to  Manage it.


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 11:52
Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

That bar under Doncaster’s main stand is like a concrete bunker. 
Mowden Park’s arena is in need of a good lick of paint to day the least 

Oh you haven't been there of late then Neasham - our Knight Shift Renovated the whole area last season it is much more bright and welcoming - but yes it was a concrete hall but it was covered, had a very long bar and good food.


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Moseley Mauler
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 11:54
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Workerbee - come visit Castle Park the things you mentioned are pretty much available here too.....

And at Moseley....


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 11:56
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

I have been to Doncaster's ground and it is very impressive, However even they cannot fit in 28,000 into their ground. It would seem that there are only a handful of stadiums that could meet Premiership criteria and even Ealing are considering moving if the chance of premiership was on offer with a 14 team league. 
I agree that Darlington Mowden Park have found that the stadium has been a millstone around their neck and have been struggling to make it pay. You are quite right the running costs must be horrendous and it will only work if Non Match day revenue covers the running costs. In theory it was a great idea and getting it for a knock down price seemed a no brainer unfortunately they did not have the infrastructure to  Manage it.

Yes the present accommodation cannot hold 28k - but we can, in a matter of months, get the ground set to the minimum standards for crowds etc etc. And be a place with atmosphere - at Darlington you would need a crowd in excess of 15 k to create an atmosphere I would guess (the current numbers they get will make it feel like Nottingham when they played at the County Ground souless, which I believe they still have a deal in place to use if they made the premiership).


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 12:06
This sounds like a "my dad is bigger than your dad" argument.

There's more to a good dad/stadium than size.


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 13:39
True, I shall cease at this point. Smile

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2020 at 17:48
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

This sounds like a "my dad is bigger than your dad" argument.

There's more to a good dad/stadium than size.

Quite.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 07:42
I am just happy that writer at The Times likes the matchday at my clubs ground.

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Old enough to know better...just wish I knew what


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 08:40
Donny has the best pies in the ground anywhere although to be fair to DMP the Taylors Pork Pies in Skinnergate push them close.

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: 'Hopper
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 09:19
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Donny has the best pies in the ground anywhere although to be fair to DMP the Taylors Pork Pies in Skinnergate push them close.
Obviously you've never been to Otley. 


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What if the Hokey Kokey really IS what it's all about?


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 11:36
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Donny has the best pies in the ground anywhere although to be fair to DMP the Taylors Pork Pies in Skinnergate push them close.

Don't take them into the stadium and expect to eat them hot though. DMP have offered the stadium to the NHS for cold storage of the Covid vaccine. Might be too cold though as it only needs to be stored at -80 degrees.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 11:37
Originally posted by 'Hopper 'Hopper wrote:

Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Donny has the best pies in the ground anywhere although to be fair to DMP the Taylors Pork Pies in Skinnergate push them close.
Obviously you've never been to Otley. 
Prefer the ones at Skipton personally. Takes all sorts though.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Deva Delinquent
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 12:19
The pies at Macc take some beating, proper tasty.


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 20:50
Deva, you mean Maggie & Barry's Artisan pies! They normally do a Turkey and Cranberry Pie around this time of year its blooming lovely!

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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Deva Delinquent
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 13:48
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Deva, you mean Maggie & Barry's Artisan pies! They normally do a Turkey and Cranberry Pie around this time of year its blooming lovely!

PP, those Christmas pies are so nice that last time we played Macc at Christmas I bought some to take home with me.  I'm salivating just thinking about them!

Here's to a swift return to N2N for Macc.  Christmas games ain't the same without you.


Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 20:44
Originally posted by Deva Delinquent Deva Delinquent wrote:

The pies at Macc take some beating, proper tasty.

as we are now discussing pies on the Saracens & Ealing thread, does that mean we need to save our thoughts on those two clubs for the 'Best Food' thread? Confused


Posted By: Deva Delinquent
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 08:09
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by Deva Delinquent Deva Delinquent wrote:

The pies at Macc take some beating, proper tasty.

as we are now discussing pies on the Saracens & Ealing thread, does that mean we need to save our thoughts on those two clubs for the 'Best Food' thread? Confused

Sure why not.  This year's already crazy enough, let's throw caution to the wind.


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 10:16
Ealing have taken another blow on top of losing their coach, as a key revenue stream is disappearing. Apparently London Broncos RL club are moving to Wimbledion's ground after a 4 year run at Vallis Way.  The year that Broncos were in SL, Trailfinders broke even moneywise: not a coincidence.


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 10:42
Have Broncos also had the "unofficial nod" that they have won the vote to return to Super League - hence the need for a bigger ground - announcement due on Wednesday, I think


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 12:23
Oops change that - announcement due 12.30 today - imminent! Actually my money is on Toulouse - they're all for "spreading the game" even though everyone knows its basically an M62 corridor sport


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 12:39
Eeh by gum it's Leigh, my home town club - gobsmacked to say the least - thought they were 4th or 5th in the pecking order. Well done guys! 


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 12:50
Liegh Centurians
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/55300001" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/55300001


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 15:41
At least they get 66.6% of the pot the other prem teams get - unlike the team that goes up in Union.

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Thames Estuary Man
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 16:33
Excellent, my RL friends will be over the moon it’s Leigh. They didn’t want overseas teams who’s fans don’t travel. A much better atmosphere when there is decent support for the away teams and better for the match day finances :-) 



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