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Bedford - Northampton

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Forum Name: The Championship
Forum Description: Discuss the 12 clubs forming the English Championship.
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Printed Date: 04 Aug 2020 at 06:59
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Topic: Bedford - Northampton
Posted By: Runitback
Subject: Bedford - Northampton
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2020 at 21:02
So is this the way forward,  Championship "clubs" to be A league / second team for  Premiership clubs. I can see it making financial sense for both parties, but then does a club like Bedford lose its identity?

Presumably Nottingham - Leicester next . . . 


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Run with it



Replies:
Posted By: KnightsBoy
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2020 at 21:04
Bedford Saints, maybe.


Posted By: Exiled_Scots
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2020 at 21:47
Bedhampton - Desperate times lead to desperate measures for survival. No need to ring fence the Premiership with moves such as these. 

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Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!

Seven down one to go


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2020 at 21:52
Leicester has had close ties with many clubs over the years, Nottingham and Bedford have had close ties in the past and at the next level Loughboro' Students, Hinckley and Leicester Lions have "arrangements" with Tigers players coaching and playing.


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2020 at 21:59
I think Blues are going back to the model tigerburnie says

When the league was more semi-pro we were successful having decent young players from the Premiership with money then spent on decent player of our own.

https://bedfordrugby.co.uk/news/2020/06/blues-announce-strategic-partnership-saints" rel="nofollow - https://bedfordrugby.co.uk/news/2020/06/blues-announce-strategic-partnership-saints


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2020 at 22:23
Starts to feel a bit pointless when you go down this route . . . and  your club just becomes a play thing for  a Premiership side . . we all like to see our teams win but! In my opinion Prem and Championship clubs need to be sustainable and if that means smaller squads, then all the better. More players playing more rugby and if you shine in Nat1 or Championship a Prem club will come for you.

But shipping players in and out really does nothing for the Champ Clubs and they will become souless  . ..  a bit like a certain west country team!!!


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Run with it


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2020 at 22:47
If this is what it's coming to (and it's obviously what PRL and the RFU want), then I'm out.

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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 00:35
Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

Starts to feel a bit pointless when you go down this route . . . and  your club just becomes a play thing for  a Premiership side . . we all like to see our teams win but! In my opinion Prem and Championship clubs need to be sustainable and if that means smaller squads, then all the better. More players playing more rugby and if you shine in Nat1 or Championship a Prem club will come for you.

But shipping players in and out really does nothing for the Champ Clubs and they will become souless  . ..  a bit like a certain west country team!!!

When Blues first did this they were allocated certain players for the whole season (effectively their players) and then extra ones on loan when there were injuries, just like all clubs do from time to time.


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 07:05
Listened to the Lancashire Rugby Podcast last week they had Mick Hogan of Falcons on and I'm pretty sure he describes Prem Clubs using Champ/Nat 1 Clubs as feeders/nurseries for up and coming players. He also said bin the A League and get the Premiership "fringe"players " playing against experienced players in the Championship/Nat 1 to learn their "trade". Talked a lot of sense, IMHO.

http://lancashirerugby.co.uk/news/1521-listen-to-our-weekly-podcasts" rel="nofollow - http://lancashirerugby.co.uk/news/1521-listen-to-our-weekly-podcasts


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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Fly Half
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 07:07
Totally understandable from a financial viewpoint but destroys the little integrity the Championship had remaining.

Frankly,more satisfying to watch say a local level 6/7 club.


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 08:41
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

If this is what it's coming to (and it's obviously what PRL and the RFU want), then I'm out.

Come and watch Moseley. 😁


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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: Wing Commander
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 09:12
The Gloucester / Hartbury rationale is gaining momentum


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 09:29
The Northampton/Bedford move could prove very beneficial but only if the A league is totally abandoned. Prem senior and academy squads will be smallest ever this coming season and they will not let players play on a Saturday for a Champ team if their is an A league match the following Monday. Last season Quins and Irish had to borrow players  to have enough for most A league squad matches. For the development of Academy players playing in the current Championship is much better than just meaningless A league matches but the integrity of the Championship clubs will disappear a la Hartpury. Current National One will become the pinnacle of non full time club rugby


Posted By: JohnLowe
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 09:40
So now it’s Bedford Saints. Before that it was Bedford Sarries and before that Bedford Tigers. How long before it becomes Bedford Ampthill😀


Posted By: Capt Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 09:52
Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

Starts to feel a bit pointless when you go down this route . . . and  your club just becomes a play thing for  a Premiership side . . we all like to see our teams win but! In my opinion Prem and Championship clubs need to be sustainable and if that means smaller squads, then all the better. More players playing more rugby and if you shine in Nat1 or Championship a Prem club will come for you.

But shipping players in and out really does nothing for the Champ Clubs and they will become souless  . ..  a bit like a certain west country team!!!

Hope you are not alluding to the Pirates sir.


Posted By: Bedfordian
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 09:54
Think the reaction is a little extreme to this news.  Nearly all the clubs in the Championship have a deal with local Prem Clubs already..... load players, injured players coming back, season loans etc etc.  


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 10:43
Originally posted by Capt Sparrow Capt Sparrow wrote:

Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

Starts to feel a bit pointless when you go down this route . . . and  your club just becomes a play thing for  a Premiership side . . we all like to see our teams win but! In my opinion Prem and Championship clubs need to be sustainable and if that means smaller squads, then all the better. More players playing more rugby and if you shine in Nat1 or Championship a Prem club will come for you.

But shipping players in and out really does nothing for the Champ Clubs and they will become souless  . ..  a bit like a certain west country team!!!

Hope you are not alluding to the Pirates sir.

I assumed it was Hartpury.  I guess you think of them as Northerners, though!


Posted By: Capt Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 11:06
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Originally posted by Capt Sparrow Capt Sparrow wrote:

Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

Starts to feel a bit pointless when you go down this route . . . and  your club just becomes a play thing for  a Premiership side . . we all like to see our teams win but! In my opinion Prem and Championship clubs need to be sustainable and if that means smaller squads, then all the better. More players playing more rugby and if you shine in Nat1 or Championship a Prem club will come for you.

But shipping players in and out really does nothing for the Champ Clubs and they will become souless  . ..  a bit like a certain west country team!!!

Hope you are not alluding to the Pirates sir.

I assumed it was Hartpury.  I guess you think of them as Northerners, though!

West Midlands?


Posted By: Isithalftimeyet
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 11:09
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

The Northampton/Bedford move could prove very beneficial but only if the A league is totally abandoned. Prem senior and academy squads will be smallest ever this coming season and they will not let players play on a Saturday for a Champ team if their is an A league match the following Monday. Last season Quins and Irish had to borrow players  to have enough for most A league squad matches. For the development of Academy players playing in the current Championship is much better than just meaningless A league matches but the integrity of the Championship clubs will disappear a la Hartpury. Current National One will become the pinnacle of non full time club rugby

There isn't much difference to what has happened in the past few years.  Some clubs work closely with Premiership clubs, others work with their own developed squads.  From what we can see so far of next seasons plans, it's much the same. Pirates, Donny, Jersey, Richmond and Ealing and probably others looking to do what they have always done with Hartpury and Bedford following a similar model to what they have previously done. Maybe different alliances, but similar models.  Which is right, which is wrong?  Don't know but what's for certain is that each club has retained its own identity and overall the brand of rugby at this level has been excellent whatever the model.  


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 11:37
I did say Bedford would manage to pull something out of the hat.  If it works for them then good luck to them - I suspect as alluded to above a certain number of players will be assigned season long and then some loan players as and when needed. The coaching and training could be a good thing for the Blues. The fears that loss of identity may arise is something that the club and fans will have to resolve.

Just don't become a Hartpury.


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 11:44
From memory, this is very much the model proposed by the RFU a couple of years ago?

From the Internet report I have just read, It would seem Bedford were in big trouble before this arrangement.

I wonder if they will get the same amount of stick Hartpury do?

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RAID ON


Posted By: Deerhunter2
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 12:01
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

From memory, this is very much the model proposed by the RFU a couple of years ago?

From the Internet report I have just read, It would seem Bedford were in big trouble before this arrangement.

I wonder if they will get the same amount of stick Hartpury do?
I don’t think “in trouble” is correct, more fiscally astute.


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 12:04
If it means game time for promising players it must be good. The saddest thing is to see players at Premiership clubs kicking their heels.
Other clubs should welcome playing against good players.
I take the point about identity, but that's Bedford's problem.Better than just sinking.


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pappashanga


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 12:05
To be fair Hartpury used the players from other clubs to get them to the Championship, and then used their affiliations to save them from relegation. Hartpury has a couple of hundred supporters at best so doesn't even fund themselves from that income etc.

Whereas Bedford has got themselves here, have the fan base to hold themselves here, just struggling a bit in the current climate but will be able to operate well as as a semi-pro outfit at this level. I do not think they should be compared the same - not yet, perhaps in 3 to 5 years if they lose their identity (which I doubt they will).


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 12:12
Yes reference was to Hartpury . . . a team rather than a club.

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Run with it


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 12:39
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

If this is what it's coming to (and it's obviously what PRL and the RFU want), then I'm out.

Come and watch Moseley. 😁
Little. And none.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: TAS63
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 12:44
For me this is all about how the arrangement is actually executed and delivered. 

Saints players dropping in and out, with no continuity is the worst solution. To Pappashanga's point that loses the Blues identity and it becomes Saints B. We have risked this at Goldington Road, at times, with other arrangements we've had - be in Saracens, Leicester or previous Northampton dalliances - but come through it. It loses all supporter / player relationships and that's not what the experience is about for me.

Done well, and we have also seen this with the previous arrangements, the majority of the players are with us most of a season - with a few on the edges dropping in and out, either through injury return or just getting more game time as required. This can work for everyone.

I think the bit that's "new" to me is the comments on the coaching side. With Ian Vass and Jake Sharp at Saints, and Alex Rae and Paul Tupai at the Blues, some existing connections and relationships seem obvious. Style of play will be an interesting challenge I suspect, but it's got more chance of working with Chris Boyd at Saints than it did with Jim Mallinder and Alan Gaffney. And a huge chunk of the Blues identity for me, is the style of play. 

Financially it makes the biggest sense at this time. And, let's be honest, I suspect that is the over-riding driver.


Posted By: Old Blue
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 12:46
Just received a copy of the Blues accounts for the last financial year. They made a small profit of £30k but the most interesting thing to me was the income breakdown. They received £659k from the RFU. I suspect that will go to £0 next year with RFU income collapsing because of Covid. So they need to find the £659k from somewhere else (?) or change the model.
I would have thought they have made the right decision.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 14:30
Originally posted by Old Blue Old Blue wrote:

Just received a copy of the Blues accounts for the last financial year. They made a small profit of £30k but the most interesting thing to me was the income breakdown. They received £659k from the RFU. I suspect that will go to £0 next year with RFU income collapsing because of Covid. So they need to find the £659k from somewhere else (?) or change the model.
I would have thought they have made the right decision.


As I said, the article said 'a lifeline' - you may be correct, at best they will need to find £330k extra this coming season or any amount up to £660k.

Not sure many championship clubs will be able to do that.

It seems the RFU have re-thought their ideas of the Championship from being a 2nd level fully professional league to a top-level recreational league.

A number of other clubs are likely to follow IMO.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 15:27
I think that this is a very good move for Bedford. Clearly funding is an issue everywhere for very obvious reasons, so pitching in with one of your nearest neighbours, who just happens to be one of the top sides in the country, seems like a very good thing to do until the current environment improves.
What's more, it may be a magnet for quality, up and coming players who want to be noticed at a higher level. What better way to do it than to be training with Saints coaches?
With regards to identity. Bedford are one of the top 'clubs' in the country and are in an elite few in this regard. They are known and respected the world over. This will not change and will always maintain their own club ethos and camaraderie and very much their own identity.
I really wish them well and can't wait to welcome them back to Jersey....along with you all!!   


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 16:08
Originally posted by Old Blue Old Blue wrote:

Just received a copy of the Blues accounts for the last financial year. They made a small profit of £30k but the most interesting thing to me was the income breakdown. They received £659k from the RFU. I suspect that will go to £0 next year with RFU income collapsing because of Covid. So they need to find the £659k from somewhere else (?) or change the model.
I would have thought they have made the right decision.


How much income was there from match days as that must be a major hit based on the tremendous support you get.   Hopefully fans will be allowed back in numbers in time but that may take till next season or if we have more daft days at the beaches even longer


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 16:31
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

 

It seems the RFU have re-thought their ideas of the Championship from being a 2nd level fully professional league to a top-level recreational league.

I think there's some truth in that - although actually I think (and I've been saying this both in public and on here since Mose were in the Championship so this isn't in any way sour grapes) that what they are really wanting, and will probably end up with, is "proper" rugby in the premiership and from National 1 down, with an invasion of the bodysnatchers at Level 2 where the husks of what used to be 12 clubs go through the motions at the Prem's bidding. They've been telegraphing it ever more strongly since about 2014, and while some might have thought that the nadir had been reached (and repelled) with the floating of the idea of "buddy clubs" the other year..... .....here we all are again. 

Put it this way, I'd much rather Mose were at level 2, but at the moment there are compensations for not being.


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keep the faith


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 17:33
Luckily for Richmond, they are not beholden to Premiership clubs. They have the odd loanee, but mostly it's internal resources. In fact more so than when in Div2 South, when there were two dual registereds. Don't seem to have any of those any more. The ex Harlequins scrum half joined mid last season, but as a proper member while still coaching at Harlequins, from whom he retired last October.
If ever the season starts, it's going to be fun.


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pappashanga


Posted By: Member728
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 20:33
pappashanga
Perhaps we should have our own feeder club
How about LS ?


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83 Consecutive League Wins


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2020 at 21:05
Originally posted by Member728 Member728 wrote:

pappashanga
Perhaps we should have our own feeder club
How about LS ?

LS seem to be feeding us at the moment


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keep the faith


Posted By: Exiled_Scots
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2020 at 18:00
Originally posted by Member728 Member728 wrote:

pappashanga
Perhaps we should have our own feeder club
How about LS ?

Member728

How many LS players have taken the step down and turned out for the co-tenants over the last couple of seasons? LOL


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Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!

Seven down one to go


Posted By: Member728
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2020 at 20:08
Originally posted by Exiled_Scots Exiled_Scots wrote:

Originally posted by Member728 Member728 wrote:

pappashanga
Perhaps we should have our own feeder club
How about LS ?

Member728

How many LS players have taken the step down and turned out for the co-tenants over the last couple of seasons? LOL
none have taken the step down 
but quite a few have taken the the step upSleepy


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83 Consecutive League Wins


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2020 at 09:08
Richmond Scottish Rugby Club has an appealing sound - or if they can tease the lads down the road at ODP to join in a mega merger Richmond Scottish & Welsh Rugby Club. Irish & Ealing may want to follow the trend.

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: Member728
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2020 at 09:18
Richmond Scottish Rugby Club has an appealing sound - 
certainly better than 
Scottish Richmond  Rugby ClubWink


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83 Consecutive League Wins


Posted By: Exiled_Scots
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2020 at 20:11
Originally posted by Member728 Member728 wrote:

Originally posted by Exiled_Scots Exiled_Scots wrote:

Originally posted by Member728 Member728 wrote:

pappashanga
Perhaps we should have our own feeder club
How about LS ?

Member728

How many LS players have taken the step down and turned out for the co-tenants over the last couple of seasons? LOL
none have taken the step down 
but quite a few have taken the the step upSleepy

Yes joining a club that was relegated and playing in the league below is a “step up” LOLLOL


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Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!

Seven down one to go


Posted By: Dad
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2020 at 21:18
Well on the female side for years Richmond has had the top level women's side and LS has run the girls set up (i beleive something to sdo with Tyrell's Prem clubs that hosted a Centre of excellence not also being meant to run a club u18 side) be interesting to see what happens this next 3 seasons with Richmond dropping to the championship, will Richmond develop a U18's and will it impact LS U18's (area finalists 2018/19 season)




Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2020 at 21:24
All good honest rivalry, be nice when we can actually play.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Guinness John
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 09:37
You could even start a London Scottish  / Richmond thread  !!Wink

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Bedford Blues Supporter of the Year 2010 - 2011


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 10:15
I hope not.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Dan Gleebles
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 10:43
We all do.



Posted By: Rugbyfan
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 00:03
Listening to Geoff on his podcast it sounds like we have a three year deal with Northampton that he said is a merger. We will have a squad of approximately fifteen players the rest of the squad will be made up of Northampton  players. Not sure if I like it at all .
 .


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 07:54
Originally posted by Rugbyfan Rugbyfan wrote:

Listening to Geoff on his podcast it sounds like we have a three year deal with Northampton that he said is a merger. We will have a squad of approximately fifteen players the rest of the squad will be made up of Northampton  players. Not sure if I like it at all .
 .


Ouch that does not sound good


Posted By: Capt Sparrow
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 09:40
Originally posted by Rugbyfan Rugbyfan wrote:

Listening to Geoff on his podcast it sounds like we have a three year deal with Northampton that he said is a merger. We will have a squad of approximately fifteen players the rest of the squad will be made up of Northampton  players. Not sure if I like it at all .
 .

So Bedford have sold their soul and should be re-named Northampton A for next season whenever it starts.


Posted By: Taffy
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 10:57
Originally posted by Capt Sparrow Capt Sparrow wrote:

So Bedford have sold their soul and should be re-named Northampton A for next season whenever it starts.

Not so much "sold their soul" but taking the only lifeline available after RFU funding reduction and the financial straits from Covid-19. So many businesses have been unable to weather the storm and have collapsed into administration, this was a lifeline for Bedford


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 11:12
Originally posted by Taffy Taffy wrote:

Originally posted by Capt Sparrow Capt Sparrow wrote:

So Bedford have sold their soul and should be re-named Northampton A for next season whenever it starts.


Not so much "sold their soul" but taking the only lifeline available after RFU funding reduction and the financial straits from Covid-19. So many businesses have been unable to weather the storm and have collapsed into administration, this was a lifeline for Bedford


Agreed, funny enough Covid-19 (combined by the reduction in RFU funding) may herald the pairing up between Premiership/Championship teams that the RFU mooted a couple of years ago.

I'm sure ring-fencing will be brought up again.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Moseley Mauler
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 11:51
If I were a Bedford man I would not be happy with that.  Rather play a couple of levels lower


Posted By: Greg
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 12:21
Originally posted by Moseley Mauler Moseley Mauler wrote:

If I were a Bedford man I would not be happy with that.  Rather play a couple of levels lower
I am a Bedford man and I am happy with that and would not want to play a couple of leagues lower.
Of course I would prefer to have full financial independence and total control over the direction in which the club wants to travel. Sadly the current, and unfolding, uncertainty of Championship League rugby makes this liaison (or merger) all the more sensible in order to give the club and its supporters something on which to go forward.
At this level the days of clubs playing exclusively with home-grown, local lads is long gone and we all ship in players from anywhere and everywhere to put a competitive squad together. The fact remains that Bedford and Northampton are both East Midlands clubs with a long history of players representing both teams.
Bedford in recent years have been labelled as Leicester, Saints and Saracens second XV, no different to the arrangements other Championship clubs have had with their local Premiership sides. The only difference I can see with this arrangement is that it has been more publicly discussed.



Posted By: Moseley Mauler
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 12:43
But hasn't he said it is a "merger". Doesn't that make it different?


Posted By: Bluesman11
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 12:58
Unlike with DRs, this is a more formal arrangement with a tightly worded contract. One of the key things Geoff Irvine was keen to point out is that the players are named in the contract and it stipulates where there is a fixture clash with an A league/cup game, Bedford have priority with their selection and the only scenario they are allowed to be called up to Saints is if they are in the squad for a league/European game. This is different to other arrangements we have had. 

I would also say our squad will be slightly higher than 15. We’ve got 10 signed, 6 players due to re-sign and about 5 or so new signings we’re hoping to make so squad will be a touch over 20 probably. We’re not offering any contracts until we have a start date and confirmation of funding levels so we can set a budget. Again, confused how other clubs have been able to set budgets with absolutely no idea of what/when their income will be. It’s an odd way of running a business.

I’m not overly happy with the situation, but also appreciate there isn’t much else we could’ve done. I’d rather this than drop down a league and to suggest a club that attracts over 2500 through the gates every week should have to drop down a league so clubs with with a sugar daddy and under 1000 rattling around can play in the Champ doesn’t seem very beneficial to the league. I’m hoping situation is temporary. If all clubs in this league wanted to balance their books, they’d all have to be making similar arrangements. What the deal does mean is that I’m confident Bedford will still exist in 3 years time when all of this has settled down and I would bet money that at least 1 championship club will not survive the same period unfortunately.


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Championship Prediction League Winner 11/12


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 14:05
As a Blues fan, not knowing how much funding we will get and Geoff Irvine thinking capacity could be halved to start off with, helping to keep the club alive is a good thing. We have been doing this since 2003 as well so the club knows how to manage the partnership.

Also to those that say that there could be a loss of identity, Bedford School provide many academy players to Northampton and even the Blues did previously to Saints, so some of these “Northampton” players will actually be playing at their hometown club.

I see this as a insurance policy to make sure the best supported club (and profitable) in the division (excl. Club 13) survive in these uncertain times. This actually helps supply a little extra financial support to other clubs in the division from the travelling fans. A winning Blues team (hopefully) is good for the division as the travelling support increases.


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 15:49
Originally posted by Rugbyfan Rugbyfan wrote:

Listening to Geoff on his podcast it sounds like we have a three year deal with Northampton that he said is a merger. We will have a squad of approximately fifteen players the rest of the squad will be made up of Northampton  players. Not sure if I like it at all .
 .

I've not listened to the podcast but the use of the word merger would suggest two becoming one.  That is obviously not the case here as both clubs are remaining separate entities. It appears just to be a loan deal. 


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Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: TAS63
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 16:13
"Merger" is used, as is the 3 year term. A 3 page heads of argument document is referred to as well. Hardly a detailed document then. I am taking this is the initial areas to look at to see what works - given how and when it's been drawn up it's difficult to see it as much more than that for now.

I think the more important point is that it will secure rugby at Goldington Road for the next few years. Whereas with a 50% RFU funding cut (and how many of think that will be the end of it? The implication made was that if the RFU doesn't get income from Autumn International games that this could drop to zero for the 20/21 season) and a loss of 4 or 5 (my memory fades) home games this season, and the start of next not being until 2021 (at the earliest) that must have been in doubt over the last few months. 

A further point in the podcast was that the Championship will not look anything like the same in 3 or so years time. And those who have seen the front page of today's Rugby Paper (referring to Edward Griffiths 76 page report) will have some indication of what they might be. 

So lot's of changes likely. The security of a 3 year deal with Saints through this time looks hugely attractive to me. 

Towards the end of this period then let's have another look at it and mark it as a success or failure at that point. But doing the same things and expecting the same old outcomes would look a worse decision in my book.


Posted By: Dan Gleebles
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 18:05
As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 


Posted By: McGee
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2020 at 14:14
Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2020 at 19:59
Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.
With Saints behind them Blues will surely be top 4 and a winning side at GR will pack them in and ensure a great atmosphere. For the purists I suspect there will be cracking club rugby nearby at Amps. I hope to see both but can the Saints imports wear their club socks please? Winning rugby must be really important I guess.

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 10:58
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 


Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.
With Saints behind them Blues will surely be top 4 and a winning side at GR will pack them in and ensure a great atmosphere. For the purists I suspect there will be cracking club rugby nearby at Amps. I hope to see both but can the Saints imports wear their club socks please? Winning rugby must be really important I guess.


I think it is financial survival that is at the top of the agenda, rather than winning.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Dave the Dog
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 13:19
Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.

Dan - I'm not sure you can be a supporter of a club without supporting the club.  Unless by voting with your feet you mean walking down to Goldington Road when rugby resumes.

McGee - I'm assuming you're using "like many others" in the same way that Trump does - i.e. just him or him and his yes men.  I've not noticed a significant drop off in support over the years.

SmileWink


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 13:46
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.
With Saints behind them Blues will surely be top 4 and a winning side at GR will pack them in and ensure a great atmosphere. For the purists I suspect there will be cracking club rugby nearby at Amps. I hope to see both but can the Saints imports wear their club socks please? Winning rugby must be really important I guess.

Wishing no ill will on Bedford - the Top 4 will depend on the quality of the squad they retain (tbh - I do not know how good those who are remaining are - likelihood are some are good some aren't and probably squad players), and the quality of the players that are "signed" to them by Northampton and how good they are - considering they are unlikely to be top 3 choices in the Northampton squad based on the reasons stipulated in said agreement mentioned by their Chairman you would have to wonder what abilities they will bring to Bedford that Bedford couldn't do prior to this other than assisting with the purse strings. If Northampton has a great squad in depth then yes Bedford have every chance of being high up the table, conversely, if they don't well .....?

What I do agree with is that Bedford is very much likely to be around in 3 years time - which can only be good news for them and their supporters. 


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 15:44
The players Blues have retained are all quality players and 1st choice, but also we have lost some decent players, both wingers. With only about 10-12 confirmed players (a third of a squad) until we know who else is coming from saints and signings it is just a waiting game! 

We have lost squad/utility players so I expect to see a real mixture from Saints with inexperienced growing through the season when required.


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 16:25
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

The players Blues have retained are all quality players and 1st choice, but also we have lost some decent players, both wingers. With only about 10-12 confirmed players (a third of a squad) until we know who else is coming from saints and signings it is just a waiting game! 

We have lots squad/utility players so I expect to see a real mixture from Saints with a he inexperienced growing through the season when required.


Hope it goes ok for you the worry I would have is if Saints are sending certain players will they then be expected to play and if so what happens to your good players if they are in the same position.


Posted By: Dan Gleebles
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 16:33
Originally posted by Dave the Dog Dave the Dog wrote:

Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.

Dan - I'm not sure you can be a supporter of a club without supporting the club.  Unless by voting with your feet you mean walking down to Goldington Road when rugby resumes.

McGee - I'm assuming you're using "like many others" in the same way that Trump does - i.e. just him or him and his yes men.  I've not noticed a significant drop off in support over the years.

SmileWink
I will be there, vote has been cast. Thanks for asking. 


Posted By: Bluesman11
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 20:33
Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

The players Blues have retained are all quality players and 1st choice, but also we have lost some decent players, both wingers. With only about 10-12 confirmed players (a third of a squad) until we know who else is coming from saints and signings it is just a waiting game! 

We have lots squad/utility players so I expect to see a real mixture from Saints with a he inexperienced growing through the season when required.


Hope it goes ok for you the worry I would have is if Saints are sending certain players will they then be expected to play and if so what happens to your good players if they are in the same position.

Chris Boyd was clear that the saints players have to earn the right to start. His view is if they are good enough to be considered future saints players, then they should be able to force themselves into our lineup and if they can’t get into our team then they probably aren’t ready for the step up. I would say about 7 of our current retained players are nailed on starters. Whoever saints give us, they’re not going to displace Rich Lane from full back for example. Not sure if this type of thing will be factored into the players we receive.

Personally, for the reasons mentioned above I don’t expect us to be challenging towards the top of the table. Given our access to them, these are likely to be very fringe saints players. Some of these will no doubt be useful players, but some of them will probably turn out to not be high end championship players yet. I’m hoping we have Connor Tupai who would likely be our regular 9 and make a big impact, but I think we’d only get a player of his quality due to his personal links with the club (he is a fan after all).

Make no mistake though, this deal has not been made with the aim of pushing for a high league position. It’s been made to secure our financial health for the next 3 years whilst the pandemic/funding/league structure is in flux and, hopefully, to secure still being in the 2nd tier of English rugby at the end of it.


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Championship Prediction League Winner 11/12


Posted By: Dave the Dog
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 09:53
Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:



I will be there, vote has been cast. Thanks for asking. 

That great news Dan, sorry for any misunderstanding on my part!Thumbs Up


Posted By: Bedfordian
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 12:12
Just catching up, a lot of bitterness!! 

I don't think I've watched a game in recent years without both sides having premiership players in their side, who were loaned, lent or whatever the excuse was.

Most clubs have informal arrangements where players come and go and there is no consistency, all Bedford have done is formalise it.........

What makes me smile is that the "Bedford" fans who have voted with their feet where never happy anyway and spent most of time moaning even when we did well!

I will be there, look forward to it, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would be too concerned with final table position, we'll be glad to be there at all and will welcome everyone to our ground!


Posted By: Stalwart
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 13:37
Originally posted by Bedfordian Bedfordian wrote:

Just catching up, a lot of bitterness!! 

I don't think I've watched a game in recent years without both sides having premiership players in their side, who were loaned, lent or whatever the excuse was.

Most clubs have informal arrangements where players come and go and there is no consistency, all Bedford have done is formalise it.........

What makes me smile is that the "Bedford" fans who have voted with their feet where never happy anyway and spent most of time moaning even when we did well!

I will be there, look forward to it, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would be too concerned with final table position, we'll be glad to be there at all and will welcome everyone to our ground!

Bedford have a level of support that most clubs would love to achieve. It's a proper rugby club and the match day atmosphere at Goldington Road is brilliant. Pirates always have ding-dong battles with The Blues and the games are always a highlight of the season. Really looking forward to our next visit.


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 17:32
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by McGee McGee wrote:

Originally posted by Dan Gleebles Dan Gleebles wrote:

As a supporter there is little you can do except vote with your feet. 

Like many others, been there done that, also seen some good rugby elsewhere.
With Saints behind them Blues will surely be top 4 and a winning side at GR will pack them in and ensure a great atmosphere. For the purists I suspect there will be cracking club rugby nearby at Amps. I hope to see both but can the Saints imports wear their club socks please? Winning rugby must be really important I guess.

Don't worry you will be able to tell the Saints imports as they will be the only ones able to afford to wear socks!



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