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What will happen to the scrum?

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Forum Name: National League 1
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Printed Date: 23 Sep 2020 at 01:54
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Topic: What will happen to the scrum?
Posted By: normski
Subject: What will happen to the scrum?
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 15:15
I wonder what will happen to the scrum when rugby union returns. Impossible to distance, or indeed isolate, in a scrum.  Will it be suspended in favour of line-outs or free kicks? What is your take on this?



Replies:
Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 16:26
Imo I don’t think there will be a return until scrums are possible

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So many Christians not enough Lions


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 19:00
There is more contact in a maul than scrum and I agree with RB. Pre-season in cold and wet.......


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 20:24
Originally posted by normski normski wrote:

I wonder what will happen to the scrum when rugby union returns. Impossible to distance, or indeed isolate, in a scrum.  Will it be suspended in favour of line-outs or free kicks? What is your take on this?

Unless they just replace it with just a tap and go. 

But to paraphrase a famous phrase: "It's not rugby". Plus it would open the doors to further extreme law alterations further down the line. That's the only way I can think of where you might be able to avoid that notion of scrums being a corona risk.


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 20:28
A letter in Rugby Paper today suggested reducing team to 13 players🙄

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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 09:35
Top flight rugby has restarted in New Zealand
From photographs I have seen, they seem to be scrummaging.
We may well get to that stage in a few months


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 10:14
The scrum suggestions are absurd. You're going to get just as close in a line out or tackle. Even touch rugby requires proximity. I have a vision of a bizarre game played by a lot of men in space suits tasering each other instead of tackling.
Come one, they're all going to touch the same ball, unless it's covered with disinfectant this alone would pass on infection.


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pappashanga


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 11:05
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

The scrum suggestions are absurd. You're going to get just as close in a line out or tackle. Even touch rugby requires proximity. I have a vision of a bizarre game played by a lot of men in space suits tasering each other instead of tackling.
Come one, they're all going to touch the same ball, unless it's covered with disinfectant this alone would pass on infection.



Think everyone will have their own ball as passing it would increase risks.

Scrums will be formed in line with guidance on self distancing at the time. Only function will be to congregate 16 people in a relatively small area allowing the backs room to play.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 11:07
If you can't tackle them there will be some 100 plus points for each side.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 12:01
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

If you can't tackle them there will be some 100 plus points for each side.


Yes, I wasn't sure how that was supposed to work - presumably the team with the fastest players win?

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RAID ON


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 12:18
There is always fantasy rugby. 

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pappashanga


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 15:22
The RFU are looking at Touch Rugby to make it less like rugby league and more like rugby union. I'm struggling to get a vision of that!

Having been in New Zealand in early March, I was so impressed with the way their PM dealt with the issue, a total contrast to our blonde buffoon!


Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 17:19
Be careful of brining politics into it Halliford but as a counter argument NZ population is less than half that of London so not quite comparable

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So many Christians not enough Lions


Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 20:21
Population density is a big factor as is how Covid19 is reported.  
Italy only report deaths in Hospital for instance so under state the problem whereas Belgium report all deaths and therefore overstate things compared with the UK.

Antarctic no cases of Covid19.
Greenland, only 13 cases and no deaths.

Rugby Union without a scum is not Rugby Union.


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 20:28
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

A letter in Rugby Paper today suggested reducing team to 13 players🙄

Are they trying to turn this into the lesser code? 


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 20:37
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

A letter in Rugby Paper today suggested reducing team to 13 players🙄

Are they trying to turn this into the lesser code? 

It wasn't an RFU recommendation, just an individual writing in to paper. 


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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 22:12
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

A letter in Rugby Paper today suggested reducing team to 13 players🙄

Are they trying to turn this into the lesser code? 

Snob.


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All Knwoing All Seeing


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 06:15
Originally posted by Redted Redted wrote:


Antarctic no cases of COVID-19

I was in Antarctica in February. We visited both the American and NZ bases in McMurdo Sound but were not allowed inside either in case anyone on our trip was an asymptomatic carrier. People came out to see us but stayed 2 metres away. Both Bases were already down to winter staffing so could not risk getting the virus in their bases. Amazing place, amazing trip! Seeing all of the Heritage huts really brought home the courage and tenacity of Scott, Shackleton, Borchgrevink and Amundsen.


Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 07:40
Winter staffing?  At the South Pole? LOL LOL LOL

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"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 13:14
Well, 400 miles from the South Pole. Both bases retain staff there all winter, to do observations and maintain the buildings. Last flight out was at the end of February and the last ships left a few days before ours did. The next flight is in September. Now that is a proper lockdown!


Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 15:35
And they talk about Southern softies!


Posted By: Guinness John
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 16:08
Well just about the only change not being suggested is that both teams pull instead of pushing. Wink

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Bedford Blues Supporter of the Year 2010 - 2011


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 17:34
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Well, 400 miles from the South Pole. Both bases retain staff there all winter, to do observations and maintain the buildings. Last flight out was at the end of February and the last ships left a few days before ours did. The next flight is in September. Now that is a proper lockdown!


I think they are referring to the fact that February is not in the Winter at the South Pole

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RAID ON


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 17:48
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

A letter in Rugby Paper today suggested reducing team to 13 players🙄

Are they trying to turn this into the lesser code? 

Snob.
Has form.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 23:33
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

A letter in Rugby Paper today suggested reducing team to 13 players🙄

Are they trying to turn this into the lesser code? 

Snob.

And proud of it.


Posted By: Intouch
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 08:49
As posted elsewhere: Think the scrum will be ok, just won't play!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53082607" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53082607


1/ Post Oct 15th full season running  into May 

2/ Nov start 3/4 season playing most local clubs home and away and rest of clubs in league once (luck of the draw who you get home and away )

3/ Jan start 1/2 a season.

After announcements about theatres by UK Gov yesterday that they are looking for at the earliest a  Jan reopening I would suggest we are looking at option 3, as I cannot see any changing room at any ground being able to keep any sort of social distance!


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 17:37
But they also said yesterday that grassroots sport was to begin again at the start of July.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 16:18
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

But they also said yesterday that grassroots sport was to begin again at the start of July.


Not sure rugby was included in that - they haven't even given a date for cricket to re-start.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Dagfish
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2020 at 12:22
Interesting article on the BBC website regarding virus transmission and scrummaging:

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/53280424" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/53280424


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2020 at 18:14
Surely the solution to this is to have everyone tested and when and if available, inoculated. All this stuff about where people cough is unpredictable and risky.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 11:53
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

Surely the solution to this is to have everyone tested and when and if available, inoculated. All this stuff about where people cough is unpredictable and risky.


Premiership apart, where is the money coming from to test all players on a weekly basis?

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RAID ON


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 12:21
How much does it cost to test someone? Whatever it costs, it has to be worth it, until inoculation arrives.











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pappashanga


Posted By: Count Ford
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 13:01
Finance wise I doubt there are any clubs that would be able to foot the testing bill unless they had someone like a Steve Lansdown willing to foot the bill




Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 13:14
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

How much does it cost to test someone? Whatever it costs, it has to be worth it, until inoculation arrives.











Assume 40 per club per week ( need to test the expected 20 man playing squad, some reserves in case of positive tests/training injuries and coaches/medical staff - around £100 pp = £4K per week per club

Totally unrealistic for clubs below Premiership level IMO

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RAID ON


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2020 at 21:11
[QUOTE=Raider999] [QUOTE=Pappashanga]
How much does it cost to test someone? Whatever it costs, it has to be worth it, until inoculation arrives.

Having a relative working for McLaren, each test costs £80. They have to be tested twice a week, so 40 players/officials costs £6400. Add in thermometers and it gets expensive. 



Posted By: LJ from Roth
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 09:18
Options could be a thermometer test on arrival for training, anyone with temperature sent off to get tested and not allowed back at the club until negative test result comes through. 

If social distancing being practiced away from the club by players, then the rest of the squad should be ok? Anyone with symptoms is allowed a free NHS test so cost to clubs is just the digital thermometer. It does rely on people being careful away from the rugby bubble though. 

Thinking only about National Leagues. 


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 09:34
They can't just start training without a rigorous plan. starting contact sports without one is just plain dangerous and irresponsible. The figures put forward are tiny compared with the enormous sums this disease has cost and might cost in the future. Look at Australia in the past few days.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 10:56
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

They can't just start training without a rigorous plan. starting contact sports without one is just plain dangerous and irresponsible. The figures put forward are tiny compared with the enormous sums this disease has cost and might cost in the future. Look at Australia in the past few days.


Agreed they are tiny in the big picture, but not sure many N1/N2 teams could afford the extra costs.

Remember, all teams have to be able to afford testing or there is no league.

As for the idea that people are responsible when it comes to sipocial distancing - recent pictures of Beaches and Drinkers at Pubs on Saturday would indicate a lot of people either think they are immune or don't care.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 11:11
 
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

They can't just start training without a rigorous plan. starting contact sports without one is just plain dangerous and irresponsible. The figures put forward are tiny compared with the enormous sums this disease has cost and might cost in the future. Look at Australia in the past few days.


Agreed they are tiny in the big picture, but not sure many N1/N2 teams could afford the extra costs.

Remember, all teams have to be able to afford testing or there is no league.

As for the idea that people are responsible when it comes to sipocial distancing - recent pictures of Beaches and Drinkers at Pubs on Saturday would indicate a lot of people either think they are immune or don't care.

That's the whole point, the irresponsible element make us all suffer. It only needs one of them to be a rugby player to start the whole thing off again. Very depressing.


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pappashanga


Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 11:13
On current estimates there are still over 20,000 people who have tested positive for Covid 19 and probably the same who are asymptomatic so the chances of standing closely to someone in a pub is quite high especially as you saw the crowds on the beach and in the pub last weekend. The hot spots seem to have occurred around factories who have not put social distances in place and it shows how quickly a spike can flare up  if we do not keep to the guidelines. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 4 weeks after the way people got together last Saturday. Remember the person standing next to you could have Covid!! 


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 11:43
They could but if there are only 40,000 active cases at any one point, that is less than one in a thousand.

Which means the chance of there being a COVID carrier in a National 1 crowd of 500 is about 40%.
The chance of there being one in a Championship crowd of 1000 is about 64%.

I think that if they were to require masks and impose a 1m distancing, for example with tape on the rail round the pitch to mark it: we could safely watch National league rugby - and the clubs would get a chance to sell us branded face masks. Which Bedford are already selling.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 13:10
They could but if there are only 40,000 active cases at any one point, that is less than one in a thousand.
Which means the chance of there being a COVID carrier in a National 1 crowd of 500 is about 40%.
The chance of there being one in a Championship crowd of 1000 is about 64%.
I think that if they were to require masks and impose a 1m distancing, for example with tape on the rail round the pitch to mark it: we could safely watch National league rugby - and the clubs would get a chance to sell us branded face masks. Which Bedford are already selling.

What's the saying about lies and statistics?
If less that 1 in 1000 have the disease then isn't there a 100% chance of somebody with Covid19 being in a crowd of 1000 people?  But the chance of being next to them is 0.01% (or something like that).  Probably shows but I'm not a statistician! 


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 13:31
It only takes one...

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pappashanga


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 15:48
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

They could but if there are only 40,000 active cases at any one point, that is less than one in a thousand.

Which means the chance of there being a COVID carrier in a National 1 crowd of 500 is about 40%.
The chance of there being one in a Championship crowd of 1000 is about 64%.

I think that if they were to require masks and impose a 1m distancing, for example with tape on the rail round the pitch to mark it: we could safely watch National league rugby - and the clubs would get a chance to sell us branded face masks. Which Bedford are already selling.


However, until everyone is tested on a regular basis (67m per week/month) the figures you quote are meaningless.

You can have covid without any or only minor symptoms. As only 100k tests are done a day the chances are a lot more people have the virus at any one time.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Gopher72
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2020 at 06:44
Launceston Rugby Club hosted the army doing Covid-19 testing, approx 120 tested last week and will be resumed tomorrow 8th July.Unfortunately we do not know the results, except one, mine and clear.
A committee member posted an advert on facebook about the testing and was treated to a load of abuse that we were causing the spread of the virus and a bad advert for the club!
The army personnel said that they wished they could test the players but unfortunately could not come down to the resumed regulated training sessions. They had a feeling that prior resumption, all players would have to be tested.
The club also held a NHS Blood Donation session so we can't be doing everything wrong!


Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2020 at 10:08
Interesting news today three pubs closed because a customer tested positive. All staff to be tested and the Pub has to be deep cleaned. So all the customers who went to those pubs will have to be contacted and self isolate. A simple answer to avoid going back into full lock down is to be sensible. People do not listen it has not gone away so everyone needs to keep their distance , which was clearly not the case over the weekend. It is your choice, whilst the young make get a mild dose they will pass it onto older relatives who will will be in greater danger. Be sensible and wait a few more weeks. We are getting closer to producing a vaccine and life will go on.


Posted By: 'Hopper
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2020 at 10:34
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

Interesting news today three pubs closed because a customer tested positive. All staff to be tested and the Pub has to be deep cleaned. So all the customers who went to those pubs will have to be contacted and self isolate.
I doubt that those who are told to self isolate will in fact do so.


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What if the Hokey Kokey really IS what it's all about?


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2020 at 11:43
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

Interesting news today three pubs closed because a customer tested positive. All staff to be tested and the Pub has to be deep cleaned. So all the customers who went to those pubs will have to be contacted and self isolate. A simple answer to avoid going back into full lock down is to be sensible. People do not listen it has not gone away so everyone needs to keep their distance , which was clearly not the case over the weekend. It is your choice, whilst the young make get a mild dose they will pass it onto older relatives who will will be in greater danger. Be sensible and wait a few more weeks. We are getting closer to producing a vaccine and life will go on.


Having seen pictures, reportedly from pubs that have closed, I observe

1) customers seemed to all be in 20s or 30s
2) absolutely no social distancing
3) rules re sitting at tables inside not being observed

Whilst understanding younger people's frustrations from the past 10-11 weeks, I fear we will be heading back to all pubs being closed before long.

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RAID ON



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