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Experimental law changes

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Printed Date: 23 Oct 2020 at 23:02
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Topic: Experimental law changes
Posted By: JonDee
Subject: Experimental law changes
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 13:51
Interesting reading could be quite complicated for the referees

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52833173" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52833173



Replies:
Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 14:25
Agree, some big changes there, will makes games a lot different to play in and watch possibly. 

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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 15:55
The calling by the referee of a choke tackle as a ‘tackle‘ rather than ‘maul’ raises some interesting issues as to how play them proceeds.

1) the tacklers would be required to release the ball carrier who would still be on his feet with ball in hand.
2) the ball carrier would be required to do one of three things: a) release the ball (drop it on the ground?), b) pass the ball (free off-load?), or c) touch the ball down over the goal line for a try (a freebie try if the tackle is within a couple of metres of the line).

It would, therefore, be in the ball carrier’s interest to stay on his feet if at all possible. Conversely, it would be in the tacklers thanks interest to go in low to ensure the player is brought down.

Win/Win for the game, if I have read this correctly.


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Speak softly, but carry a big stick.


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 18:37
I'd like to see how this "no scrum reset" rule works if the scrum has gone down due to slips or if it ends up getting dangerous. Will it be play on or a free kick?


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 19:09
Free  kick to side putting in.

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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Penda
Date Posted: 28 May 2020 at 22:59
My God. Talk about tying themselves in knots!


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 29 May 2020 at 12:51
Having read them through I think the proposals are a very sensible short-term approach which may help get Community rugby, Level 3 down, happening sooner than we all fear. I see the Premiership has already rejected the proposals which says something about their mentality - finance first, players last. If the RFU accepted the trial for this season it might actually be good for rugby.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 29 May 2020 at 16:15
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Having read them through I think the proposals are a very sensible short-term approach which may help get Community rugby, Level 3 down, happening sooner than we all fear. I see the Premiership has already rejected the proposals which says something about their mentality - finance first, players last. If the RFU accepted the trial for this season it might actually be good for rugby.


Or just wanting proper rugby as RFUs suggestions are ridiculous.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 29 May 2020 at 17:35
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Having read them through I think the proposals are a very sensible short-term approach which may help get Community rugby, Level 3 down, happening sooner than we all fear. I see the Premiership has already rejected the proposals which says something about their mentality - finance first, players last. If the RFU accepted the trial for this season it might actually be good for rugby.


Or just wanting proper rugby as RFUs suggestions are ridiculous.

What suggestions? I haven’t had anything from the RFU that seems ridiculous. Don’t confuse the RFU with the ridiculous Premiership!


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 29 May 2020 at 20:16
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Having read them through I think the proposals are a very sensible short-term approach which may help get Community rugby, Level 3 down, happening sooner than we all fear. I see the Premiership has already rejected the proposals which says something about their mentality - finance first, players last. If the RFU accepted the trial for this season it might actually be good for rugby.


Or just wanting proper rugby as RFUs suggestions are ridiculous.


What suggestions? I haven’t had anything from the RFU that seems ridiculous. Don’t confuse the RFU with the ridiculous Premiership!


RFU were the ones suggesting games without scrums, line outs, tackling - what's not ridiculous about that.

You obviously have a beef with the Premiership who just want to play proper rugby!

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RAID ON


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 06:19
Raider no one from the RFU was suggesting games without scrums, lineouts and tackling-this was just media headlines to attract clickbait. Surely anything that may help rugby start the coming season should be considered. NZ have already rejected the proposals because the health state of that country is far better than any other rugby playing nation. Premier rugby here may resist but have to adapt for financial reasons. If community rugby is to happen at all this coming season I would suggest that anything to reduce the amount of contact in the game should seriously be considered -the important word is 'considered'.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 09:12
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Raider no one from the RFU was suggesting games without scrums, lineouts and tackling-this was just media headlines to attract clickbait. Surely anything that may help rugby start the coming season should be considered. NZ have already rejected the proposals because the health state of that country is far better than any other rugby playing nation. Premier rugby here may resist but have to adapt for financial reasons. If community rugby is to happen at all this coming season I would suggest that anything to reduce the amount of contact in the game should seriously be considered -the important word is 'considered'.


Maybe, but they were quoted as being suggestions from RFU.

Strange RFU didn't get a retraction published if they were not.

My point is, if you make a whole load of changes re scrums, line outs and tackling, then it ceases to be rugby.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 10:58
I'm fully with you Raider999 - I believe the "Rugby X model" was put together by Steve Grainger, the RFU Development Manager and therefore can be taken by the rest of us as having come from the RFU


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 11:13
Rugby X was created and put together by Ben Ryan and eventually endorsed by the RFU. Rugby has always been adapting and changing throughout its history - we now have hookers not wingers throwing in at lineouts, shortened lineouts came in, supporting and now lifting in the lineout, backs having to be 5 m back from backfoot of scrum etc etc. The proposed changes are temporary suggestions to deal with the current situation. Rugby as a sport will be in serious trouble if all that happens is people hark back to the 'good old days' and refuse to consider reforms in what will be potentially a very different environment.


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 11:27
Sorry Marigold but where exactly did I "hark back to the good old days"??
I am simply opposing the creation of something that is not rugby as we know it and have grave doubts whether there will be any great desire to play, watch or indeed invest in it. My view has always been that we shut up shop until it is safe to resume. I have no objection to the game evolving via law changes (it happens every summer) - some work, some don't. Just STOP trying to magic up "hybrid non-rugby versions of our sport"
It's a bit like wheelchair rugby (played with a football) What's that all about? Underwater rugby is another example (played with a football again with the objective of getting the ball into a basket at the base of the pool - why is it not underwater basketball?) 
Create these things if you have to just don't call it rugby! 


Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 13:06
It seems to me that anything that gets clubs playing again should be considered. Players and refs will adapt and participation can continue. Shut things down and people will drift away from the sport.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 15:07
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

It seems to me that anything that gets clubs playing again should be considered. Players and refs will adapt and participation can continue. Shut things down and people will drift away from the sport.


As domestic cricket re-start has been put back again to 1st August at the earliest, I cannot believe Rugby which is by its nature a contact sport will happen any time soon - unfortunate as it may be.

agree with thatbloke - put something on if you want but don't call it rugby because it isn't. And most won't watch it particularly with no bar.

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RAID ON


Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 15:42
I haven't got Sky Sports but the basic Sky package which I  have they include Sky Sports Mix. 
They have been putting on the latest NRL games on in Australia behind closed doors 
Have really enjoyed them. Don't watch League here because it is basically let the big lads bang it up 
the middle and hopefully get a try scoring opportunity  A bit like Union going through 20 phases 
but the ball doesn't change sides. 
In Oz they let the ball pass along the backline and are desperate to offload if possible. Being a front row man I do
enjoy the scrums but they look as if they may become obsolete apart from a knock on. Line outs go
90% to throw in so maybe we have to go 13 man and try and get game with a bit more space to score trys


Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 16:43
Originally posted by tulip tulip wrote:

I haven't got Sky Sports but the basic Sky package which I  have they include Sky Sports Mix. 
They have been putting on the latest NRL games on in Australia behind closed doors 
Have really enjoyed them. Don't watch League here because it is basically let the big lads bang it up 
the middle and hopefully get a try scoring opportunity  A bit like Union going through 20 phases 
but the ball doesn't change sides. 
In Oz they let the ball pass along the backline and are desperate to offload if possible. Being a front row man I do
enjoy the scrums but they look as if they may become obsolete apart from a knock on. Line outs go
90% to throw in so maybe we have to go 13 man and try and get game with a bit more space to score trys
Your membership if the Front Row Union is hereby rescinded and a long queue is forming to help wash your mouth out with soap and water ... on the other hand, you’re entitled to your opinion 😜

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Speak softly, but carry a big stick.


Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 17:37
Originally posted by oneagainstthehead oneagainstthehead wrote:

Originally posted by tulip tulip wrote:

I haven't got Sky Sports but the basic Sky package which I  have they include Sky Sports Mix. 
They have been putting on the latest NRL games on in Australia behind closed doors 
Have really enjoyed them. Don't watch League here because it is basically let the big lads bang it up 
the middle and hopefully get a try scoring opportunity  A bit like Union going through 20 phases 
but the ball doesn't change sides. 
In Oz they let the ball pass along the backline and are desperate to offload if possible. Being a front row man I do
enjoy the scrums but they look as if they may become obsolete apart from a knock on. Line outs go
90% to throw in so maybe we have to go 13 man and try and get game with a bit more space to score trys
Your membership if the Front Row Union is hereby rescinded and a long queue is forming to help wash your mouth out with soap and water ... on the other hand, you’re entitled to your opinion 😜
Happy memories in front row as a hooker against several International hookers when 3 against the head
would win you man of the match. 
Not any more unfortunately


Posted By: God Bless The Apple
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 19:47
Sorry, but I don't buy the stay closed until "proper" rugby can return theory.... community rugby clubs are on the brink, struggling and in desperate need of revenue streams if they are to survive and we are to enjoy supporting them once again.

Rugby's very DNA is social off the pitch, contact on it - the two things this whole sorry situation has ripped from us. We have to look for ways we can get some "rugby-related" activity back again in order to reignite clubs that have been mothballed. Waiting until "proper" rugby can return (and good luck with that looooooooooooooong wait) will kill off many clubs.

Data insights also show that around 50% of people (I believe) are mindful about returning to roles they once had within sport, be that player,  club volunteer, coach/ref, etc. The longer we have nothing, the greater we risk losing more people from the game.

I love "proper" rugby just as much as the next person, but personally I'd rather have something than nothing.

As for the pro-game, the Premiership will dictate that I'm sure - the fact that WR have offered up the Law variations as optional and temporary at least gives autonomy to the Unions.





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When you're tired... rest. Never quit.


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2020 at 22:10
GBTA, I agree! Many of our players and supporters just want the Club open and running again. The players are happy to try variations if it gets us back to playing quicker. Also we need to be playing in good weather so that we can have spectators drinking outside where it is easier to social distance.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2020 at 10:32
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

GBTA, I agree! Many of our players and supporters just want the Club open and running again. The players are happy to try variations if it gets us back to playing quicker. Also we need to be playing in good weather so that we can have spectators drinking outside where it is easier to social distance.


Until things change Bars are not allowed to open and crowds are not allowed at sports events, they have to be behind closed doors.

Some people seem to either forget or ignore these facts.

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RAID ON


Posted By: God Bless The Apple
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2020 at 11:01
The Prem may well go behind closed doors, or even with much-reduced crowd attendance in order to comply with social distancing and keep spectators safe... the pro games has the funds to be able to support this, and with so much £££ tied up with broadcasting, sponsorship, marketing, etc, they'll make it happen. 

The Champ will probably want to wait until they can have spectators as for most clubs this is where their main income streams lie (apart from wealthy sponsors), so won't be holding my breath on that happening until much later in the year.

As for the Law variations as proposed by WR following collaboration with Unions, surely it makes sense to work towards getting rugby played, albeit with tweaks in order to keep players safe (as safe as they can be)?

You may not be watching "proper" rugby as you used to remember it for a long time yet at the pro end, let alone the community game. 

And as for our community game below the Champ, I'd rather work with the stakeholders involved and try and get some rugby (whatever it looks like, let's be realistic) happening at clubs when we can (safely), be that Xpitch/Tag/touch/15s with variations... I don't care.








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When you're tired... rest. Never quit.


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2020 at 13:47
I’m looking some way ahead. Hotels are reopening in July so I’m hoping with fingers crossed that by September we will be allowed to have beer gardens open.


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2020 at 14:12
I understand your thoughts guys but a lot depends on how you define "Community" Rugby?? Ampthill place themselves in this category as do many L3, L4, L5, L6, L7 clubs yet still pay their players at various tariffs. I cannot see any brand of rugby that will bring in sufficient income to meet their costs so clubs that are already claiming financial difficulties/hardships will be further penalised, possibly crippled for good, if they are forced to play a quasi form of rugby that brings in little or no income
Even at "Community" rugby level where players aren't paid there are still significant costs involved in opening up their facilities to play
I wish I had the answer!! 


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2020 at 17:10
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

I understand your thoughts guys but a lot depends on how you define "Community" Rugby?? Ampthill place themselves in this category as do many L3, L4, L5, L6, L7 clubs yet still pay their players at various tariffs. I cannot see any brand of rugby that will bring in sufficient income to meet their costs so clubs that are already claiming financial difficulties/hardships will be further penalised, possibly crippled for good, if they are forced to play a quasi form of rugby that brings in little or no income
Even at "Community" rugby level where players aren't paid there are still significant costs involved in opening up their facilities to play
I wish I had the answer!! 

My Club isn’t facing financial hardship, we are managing with the Furlough Scheme but we will need income from September as that winds down. We have ongoing enquiries from our regular non-rugby hirers, we are looking at enabling a beer garden and adding rugby to that almost becomes the icing on the cake. Yes, players will need to be paid but as I’ve said before, they would rather be playing under the revised laws than not playing. Supporters that I have spoken to feel the same way.


Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2020 at 17:18
At grounds with crowds of (say) 150 it should be possible to socially distance..
.not ideal but under the circumstances it may be necessary.

And I appreciate the difficulties facing all clubs.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2020 at 17:21
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

I understand your thoughts guys but a lot depends on how you define "Community" Rugby?? Ampthill place themselves in this category as do many L3, L4, L5, L6, L7 clubs yet still pay their players at various tariffs. I cannot see any brand of rugby that will bring in sufficient income to meet their costs so clubs that are already claiming financial difficulties/hardships will be further penalised, possibly crippled for good, if they are forced to play a quasi form of rugby that brings in little or no income
Even at "Community" rugby level where players aren't paid there are still significant costs involved in opening up their facilities to play
I wish I had the answer!! 


My Club isn’t facing financial hardship, we are managing with the Furlough Scheme but we will need income from September as that winds down. We have ongoing enquiries from our regular non-rugby hirers, we are looking at enabling a beer garden and adding rugby to that almost becomes the icing on the cake. Yes, players will need to be paid but as I’ve said before, they would rather be playing under the revised laws than not playing. Supporters that I have spoken to feel the same way.


Not talked to any players, but suspect as most will be paid when they play rather than a monthly wage, they will want to play a.s.a.p.

As for supporters, the ones I have spoken to have no interest in watching hybrid type matches (I refuse to call it rugby as it will not be a game for all) - although they may possibly try it if they can get a beer😄

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RAID ON


Posted By: PercyR
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 09:20
But rugby is a hybrid and always had been. There have been hundreds of changes to the game and the laws, some planned, others evolving from technology and interpretation, generation on generation. When it started a try was worthless and only earned you a kick at goal; if you want 'proper' rugby then try turning back the clock - no lineout lifting, kicking directly into touch from anywhere on the field, marks anywhere, etc, etc, etc; or go further back and have 20 a side and dribbling instead of passing.


Posted By: Richmids
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 21:05
Just seen this for the Super Rugby and some new laws which include extra time if the game is level and you can replace a sent off player after 20 minutes


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52908956%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52908956


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 08:37
Originally posted by Richmids Richmids wrote:

Just seen this for the Super Rugby and some new laws which include extra time if the game is level and you can replace a sent off player after 20 minutes


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52908956%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52908956


Some good ideas but totally disagree with the red card rule


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 09:24
The unions are just making it up as they go along


Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 14:27
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

The unions are just making it up as they go along

Of course they are. This is an unprecedented situation, there is no appropriate guidance, and it's impossible to make it up after it happens.

Are you Australian btw? That chip on both shoulders seems amazingly well balanced.




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