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What happens if?

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Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: The Championship
Forum Description: Discuss the 12 clubs forming the English Championship.
URL: http://www.rolling-maul.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=17442
Printed Date: 23 Jul 2019 at 00:32
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Topic: What happens if?
Posted By: Runitback
Subject: What happens if?
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 14:25
What happens if Ring fencing comes in this season, after Irish go up? 2 up from Nat 1 and one down from Champ?

What happens if Leeds go pop, and Ring fencing comes in?

It all could prove a very interesting last few weeks of the season.


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Run with it



Replies:
Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 17:21
Rugby paper today certainly made the situation at Leeds sound dire. A real shame, as that part of England has a dearth of professional clubs.


Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 18:55
Lots of "what ifs".

For whatever reason fans in the North have failed to really engage with supporting a "big city" professional outfit. Sale do ok but access problems do put people off ,Newcastle is fairly isolated and Yorkshire just can't seem to get things going. All three areas have a rich heritage and plenty of clubs so not sure where the problem lies.

Any thoughts from those closer to the action than me?


Posted By: KnightsBoy
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 19:08
Problem with Yorkshire Carnegie, is they don't have the heritage, when they marketed themselves has Yorkshire, did they really expect people of teams like Donny, Roth, Wharfedale, Harogate, Otley, Huddersfield etc etc etc to drop their allegence with the clubs they have supported for a liftime. It will not happen, they have attract a new fan base.


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 19:55
Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Problem with Yorkshire Carnegie, is they don't have the heritage, when they marketed themselves has Yorkshire, did they really expect people of teams like Donny, Roth, Wharfedale, Harogate, Otley, Huddersfield etc etc etc to drop their allegence with the clubs they have supported for a liftime. It will not happen, they have attract a new fan base.
Sounds like a Tolkein saga - Donny fans supporting Roth wont happen - supporting Leeds no chance. I clearly know knowt about Yorkshire but see North Yorks as being wonderful trout, grayling & chub  land and Donny & Roth being Mercia, Midlands & Curry - and great beer. They are both great places but have nowt in common. If Yorkshire has a centre its probably Halifax or Huddersfield - the bit I know well is Richmond & Scarborough. 

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: Bluesman11
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 21:21
Speaking of what ifs, rugby paper also confirmed that Ealing have agreed to use a different ground were they to usurp LI and get promotion. No mention of where... Oxford Trailfinders?

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Championship Prediction League Winner 11/12


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 21:28
Yorkshire is very parochial when it comes to its rugby with only the County crossing those clublines. Supporters will watch another clubs odd big game and star but changing your allegiances on a more regular basis doesn't happen. 

As others have said (Rolling Maul passim) Leeds did themselves no favours when they usurped the Yorkshire name - it just put off alot of other clubs and I feel the academy set up probably grates with many too who see their young talent drift to Leeds with a view little reward.


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Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 22:09
Originally posted by Bluesman11 Bluesman11 wrote:

Speaking of what ifs, rugby paper also confirmed that Ealing have agreed to use a different ground were they to usurp LI and get promotion. No mention of where... Oxford Trailfinders?
 

On absolutely no evidence, I'd have to plump for either Loftus Road or Griffin Park. 

I'd think Loftus Road on the basis that local politics would likely push QPR into agreeing a favourable rent to Ealing - they are building a new training ground in the borough after much political wrangling. It is relatively close as well, and QPR needs some money.

I'd guess Griffin Park because it is close, and it is perfect for a one year tenancy due to the new ground being built. However, Irish might want to block something like that.

I'd note - people from outside of London may not realize just how incredibly close to Trailfinders the new Brentford ground is. That'll put Irish right on their doorstep. Very bad for Ealing.




Posted By: ruckinspector
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2019 at 08:25
I struggle to understand the Leeds/Yorkshire Carnegie scenario. They have had a fully funded RFU Academy for over a decade and yet at Christmas had to buy in 10 players, most from abroad, to avoid being relegated from the Championship. They talk about having ambitions to be a Premiership club but seem each year to be getting further and further away from the top of the Championship. And now none of their original early season squad are being spoken to about contracts for next season because they have got their sums wrong. Who is in charge there?



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One day this pain will make sense to you


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2019 at 08:40
Originally posted by ruckinspector ruckinspector wrote:

I struggle to understand the Leeds/Yorkshire Carnegie scenario. They have had a fully funded RFU Academy for over a decade and yet at Christmas had to buy in 10 players, most from abroad, to avoid being relegated from the Championship. 
Clap Yup, and a club that shouts out it is YORKSHIRE, strengthens teams outside of Yorkshire with Academy DRs.  The huge import of "imports" really was a kick in the teeth. I was a supporter.


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2019 at 10:04
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Originally posted by ruckinspector ruckinspector wrote:

I struggle to understand the Leeds/Yorkshire Carnegie scenario. They have had a fully funded RFU Academy for over a decade and yet at Christmas had to buy in 10 players, most from abroad, to avoid being relegated from the Championship. 
Clap Yup, and a club that shouts out it is YORKSHIRE, strengthens teams outside of Yorkshire with Academy DRs.  The huge import of "imports" really was a kick in the teeth. I was a supporter.

It is a poor performance by the club that shan't be named. And you raise some valid points chaps - why do they need to go pulling players from elsewhere if they have the RFU Academy and then sends players outside of the county on loan / DR. Maybe they will deserve what they get.


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2019 at 11:40
Apart form the embarrasment  it would cause the club and the RFU the league would be rejigged and life goes on.

The league logistics depends on when they actually announce they will not be participating.

The cut off date for Premiership and Championship is 1 August.
If they go pop before then RFU can choose to promote an extra side and almost certainly would.
If they go pop after that, the league goes ahead one short.

However for national league tthe cut off date is 1 June.
So if they go pop in June National 1 goes ahead one light.

Earlier than that they have time to reoganise all the way down.
So if they are going to implode, please let the RFU know in May.

It  is all in http://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/General/General/01/32/72/34/RFURegulation13_English.pdf" rel="nofollow - Reg 13 on the RFU site.

Interestingly, Bill beaumont has had to call an emergency conference to discuss the World League as the pacificislanders have threatened to boycott the World Cup in protect against ring fencing.

Unfortunately the Championship clubs do not have the same leverage.



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Blood and Sand


Posted By: EverOptimistic
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2019 at 15:08
Originally posted by ruckinspector ruckinspector wrote:

I struggle to understand the Leeds/Yorkshire Carnegie scenario. They have had a fully funded RFU Academy for over a decade and yet at Christmas had to buy in 10 players, most from abroad, to avoid being relegated from the Championship. 

An RFU Academy is not fully funded and costs the parent club a large amount of money to meet the objectives laid down by the RFU.  At one stage Wuss gave up their academy because of the costs involved.  Bris at one stage relied heavily on fund raising  and the BrisTrust to help fund the academy. .  


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 13:12
Rugby administration is in a right old mess at the moment. The Premiership is littered with South Africans and others from far away and the Championship with people from all over the place.
Sam Stuart is kept out of the Newcastle starting lineup by a Tongan. What a waste of a great English talent.


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pappashanga


Posted By: hrplaneman
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 14:08
Im at a slight disadvantage as I haven't seen the Rugby Paper article, but on the few jottings already written I have the following points/observations to add to the question of Leeds going pop. 
Leeds, as some will recall was created after the amalgamation of two smaller clubs in the Leeds district. It was that newly created club which was promoted to the premiership some years ago. Because of various factors again as people will recall they were then the up down team for a few seasons before becoming a familiar team within the championship. 
As others have already eluded to, they did themselves no favours at all by abusing the full county title in their club identity. A case of the accountants seeing a good marketing identity at the cost of alienation driven by the premiership land of golden riches perhaps? 

In terms of their academy, yes they have had one for a number of years, producing quite a number of current premiership players. But the majority of those players were picked up by Leeds and interestingly, despite using the Leeds ID, were in fact cultivated through other clubs within the county and were, in the main, short term signings by Leeds before again being picked up/offered premiership player contracts.
 
The latest variation of their Academy is in a roundabout way funded by the RFU. Two seasons ago they managed to convince the Yorkshire CB that the pathway for developing players into the elite route was for them (Leeds) to take over the previously successful selection process, driven in the main by other club coaches and RDO's, promising the developing of the players in the A league whilst of course cherry picking players for the benefits of themselves. With players eligible to play adult rugby I would ask Leeds to give examples of who has come through that particular pathway?

So not only have Leeds failed those players, but so to have the CB by abdicating their responsibilities and duties in areas of player development. 
Whilst a comparison has been made to the vagaries of North/West Yorkshire, in the South, Doncaster through its BUCS league Academy appears to be filling the role that Leeds stated that they would undertake throughout the county but have failed to do so along with the CB.

So to get back on question "what happens if?" The easiest route has to be one up, none down if ring fencing is to be the route of preference. Leeds on their current and previous history should be removed from the equation totally. They should like all other clubs within the county cut their cloth accordingly and either accept that they are a mid table championship side, or indeed accept, that M62 rugby rules in their specific geographical area and play at a level within their means. 


Posted By: Trident
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 15:04
Leeds/Carnegie just hasn't taken off. There are many local clubs nearby, mo, if not all, have been stuck by Carnegie hoovering up the young talent, only to spit them out at 19 when not needed and having hardly used them.
And the RFU wonder why players are drifting away from the game.

My view?
If Carnegie folded tomorrow i doubt many in the region would miss them.


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 16:48
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Originally posted by ruckinspector ruckinspector wrote:

I struggle to understand the Leeds/Yorkshire Carnegie scenario. They have had a fully funded RFU Academy for over a decade and yet at Christmas had to buy in 10 players, most from abroad, to avoid being relegated from the Championship. 
Clap Yup, and a club that shouts out it is YORKSHIRE, strengthens teams outside of Yorkshire with Academy DRs.  The huge import of "imports" really was a kick in the teeth. I was a supporter.

It is a poor performance by the club that shan't be named. And you raise some valid points chaps - why do they need to go pulling players from elsewhere if they have the RFU Academy and then sends players outside of the county on loan / DR. Maybe they will deserve what they get.
 
Was behind the posts when they played at Lady Bay and heard the reply from one of their well known coaches to the question ? Why have you brought all the new players. The reply ( well they weren't good enough so we had to change them ) !!!!!
I must admit I thought the role of a coach was to develop the players not decide they weren't good enough and ditch them



Posted By: donnyladinsheffield
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 18:59
Originally posted by hrplaneman hrplaneman wrote:

Im at a slight disadvantage as I haven't seen the Rugby Paper article, but on the few jottings already written I have the following points/observations to add to the question of Leeds going pop. 
Leeds, as some will recall was created after the amalgamation of two smaller clubs in the Leeds district. It was that newly created club which was promoted to the premiership some years ago. Because of various factors again as people will recall they were then the up down team for a few seasons before becoming a familiar team within the championship. 
As others have already eluded to, they did themselves no favours at all by abusing the full county title in their club identity. A case of the accountants seeing a good marketing identity at the cost of alienation driven by the premiership land of golden riches perhaps? 

In terms of their academy, yes they have had one for a number of years, producing quite a number of current premiership players. But the majority of those players were picked up by Leeds and interestingly, despite using the Leeds ID, were in fact cultivated through other clubs within the county and were, in the main, short term signings by Leeds before again being picked up/offered premiership player contracts.
 
The latest variation of their Academy is in a roundabout way funded by the RFU. Two seasons ago they managed to convince the Yorkshire CB that the pathway for developing players into the elite route was for them (Leeds) to take over the previously successful selection process, driven in the main by other club coaches and RDO's, promising the developing of the players in the A league whilst of course cherry picking players for the benefits of themselves. With players eligible to play adult rugby I would ask Leeds to give examples of who has come through that particular pathway?

So not only have Leeds failed those players, but so to have the CB by abdicating their responsibilities and duties in areas of player development. 
Whilst a comparison has been made to the vagaries of North/West Yorkshire, in the South, Doncaster through its BUCS league Academy appears to be filling the role that Leeds stated that they would undertake throughout the county but have failed to do so along with the CB.

So to get back on question "what happens if?" The easiest route has to be one up, none down if ring fencing is to be the route of preference. Leeds on their current and previous history should be removed from the equation totally. They should like all other clubs within the county cut their cloth accordingly and either accept that they are a mid table championship side, or indeed accept, that M62 rugby rules in their specific geographical area and play at a level within their means. 


Tha' knows nowt ladWink


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Lord have mercy on me; keep me away from Leeds: I've been before; it's not what I'm looking for


Posted By: geralltrugby
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 23:15
My son spent about 18 months at Carnegie. The coach that bought him in was sacked before he started, he was replaced by a rugby league coach who then left to be replaced by someone else who was subsequently replaced by another league coach. The rebranding farce, then the Sinfield experiment. Now basement dwellers in the Championship reliant on shipping in foreigners at the eleventh hour just to maintain second tier status. Sounds far fetched I know but they are the facts.


Posted By: fenboy
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2019 at 21:12
In YC's case I believe the crux of the matter is raised in the final two paragraphs of the Rugby Paper article: "A move out of Headingley would save the club 400,000 in rent. As well as being a hammer blow to Leeds Rhinos finances...".
It has always been my belief that Union was introduced to Headingley to keep the stadium active all year round. In addition, once the new pich had been laid articles in the now-defunct Rugby Times give the impression that the Leeds Rugby board were expecting to host RWC 2015 matches at Headingley, and may have been expecting the RFU to contribute towards ground improvements to this effect. Once this idea was dashed main sponsor Caddick withdrew his support and the clubs days were numbered. Rebranding from Leeds to Yorkshire did little other than alienate potential supporters.
It's sad all round. I had many great times watching Leeds, but in the end the persistent feeling of junior tenants in Rhino's stadium did for me.


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Fucti Fineaux


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 10:16
Tweet from Carnegie player saying they are all out of a job at the end of April. Would that mean 1 up from Nat 1 and no relegation from the Champ?


Posted By: dunc999
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 10:22
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Tweet from Carnegie player saying they are all out of a job at the end of April. Would that mean 1 up from Nat 1 and no relegation from the Champ?

If that is true then fair play to them for their professional commitment - the never say die attitude against us at Goldington Road was clear to see and they clearly did well yesterday.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 10:24
If it is true and they cannot take up their place then yes. It would be a sad day for rugby if it is true.

Also 2 down from National 1 and 5 down from National 2 with the best placed 14th palced side staying up and so on down to level 8 where there is no level transfer.




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Blood and Sand


Posted By: chas
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 11:18
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Tweet from Carnegie player saying they are all out of a job at the end of April. Would that mean 1 up from Nat 1 and no relegation from the Champ?

Unless YC are bankrupt, they could presumably recruit a new team in the summer (albeit a much cheaper one) and continue in the Championship.


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 12:19
Originally posted by chas chas wrote:

Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Tweet from Carnegie player saying they are all out of a job at the end of April. Would that mean 1 up from Nat 1 and no relegation from the Champ?

Unless YC are bankrupt, they could presumably recruit a new team in the summer (albeit a much cheaper one) and continue in the Championship.


Share at Otley? Go part time? Who knows? I wish them the best of luck, and a suitable name to go with it.

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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 14:13
Any more room for them in Coventry Kimbo, after all the town has accommodated another side that re-branded itself with a "city" title, then moved when nearly bankrupt, both financially and morally...………………………………..


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 14:17
That's a no...

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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 14:21
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by chas chas wrote:

Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Tweet from Carnegie player saying they are all out of a job at the end of April. Would that mean 1 up from Nat 1 and no relegation from the Champ?

Unless YC are bankrupt, they could presumably recruit a new team in the summer (albeit a much cheaper one) and continue in the Championship.


Share at Otley? Go part time? Who knows? I wish them the best of luck, and a suitable name to go with it.
Otley are supposedly moving to a new ground.  The old ground is VERY old now.


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 14:28
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by chas chas wrote:

Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Tweet from Carnegie player saying they are all out of a job at the end of April. Would that mean 1 up from Nat 1 and no relegation from the Champ?

Unless YC are bankrupt, they could presumably recruit a new team in the summer (albeit a much cheaper one) and continue in the Championship.


Share at Otley? Go part time? Who knows? I wish them the best of luck, and a suitable name to go with it.
Otley are supposedly moving to a new ground.  The old ground is VERY old now.
 
But still one of my favourites had some fantastic trips there with Nottingham 


Posted By: chas
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 14:28
Originally posted by chas chas wrote:

Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Tweet from Carnegie player saying they are all out of a job at the end of April. Would that mean 1 up from Nat 1 and no relegation from the Champ?

Unless YC are bankrupt, they could presumably recruit a new team in the summer (albeit a much cheaper one) and continue in the Championship.

This has now been posted on Carnegie's message board
"Rugby times also mentions that, according to accounts published by Companies House, accumulated debts of £2.7M by June 2017 and another £1.7 deficit forecast for 2017/18

It will take someone with deep and very full pockets to take us on!"


Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 14:43
And that doesn't even allow for any losses from this season, bearing in mind some of the 'squad strengthening' that went on in November/December, these could be quite significant.
Who has been in charge of the purse strings, Nick Leeson?


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 15:57
Originally posted by chas chas wrote:

Originally posted by chas chas wrote:

Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Tweet from Carnegie player saying they are all out of a job at the end of April. Would that mean 1 up from Nat 1 and no relegation from the Champ?

Unless YC are bankrupt, they could presumably recruit a new team in the summer (albeit a much cheaper one) and continue in the Championship.

This has now been posted on Carnegie's message board
"Rugby times also mentions that, according to accounts published by Companies House, accumulated debts of £2.7M by June 2017 and another £1.7 deficit forecast for 2017/18

It will take someone with deep and very full pockets to take us on!"

 
One of the major sponsors is the Caddick Group who own the ground along with quite a bit more
https://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celebrity-business/property/paul-caddick-net-worth/


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 16:32
Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

And that doesn't even allow for any losses from this season, bearing in mind some of the 'squad strengthening' that went on in November/December, these could be quite significant.
Who has been in charge of the purse strings, Nick Leeson?


No, probably the EU commission!

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RAID ON


Posted By: fenboy
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 17:17
Caddick pulled out as a major sponsor several years ago. Carnegie had to pay him back an amount of money that he had put into the club as it was apparently 'a loan'.

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Fucti Fineaux


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 21:48
How much money does the RFU give YC?
What is their playing budget for next year?

If YC were insolvent and took a points penalty how much money would they receive from the RFU?
Given the loss of income, could they afford to take up a place in National 1?



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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 22:57
The same as every other championship club. We don't know but sounds like rather less than this season. Who knows but I think we are far more likely to fold than drop through the divisions.

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That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 23:09
Originally posted by Albert Fishwick Albert Fishwick wrote:

The same as every other championship club. We don't know but sounds like rather less than this season. Who knows but I think we are far more likely to fold than drop through the divisions.


I hope you are wrong. I still wish Wakefield had taken the option to continue and drop if necessary that fold altogether, I wouldn't want another club/supporters to go through the same thing.

What is the relationship like with West Park Leeds these days? Could a merger with them be an option?



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Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 07:58
WPL is itself a merger between the former West Park Bramhope and the rump of the amateur club formed when Headingley and Roundhay came together. It runs very well as it is with the mens' 1st XV in Yorkshire 2, two other senior teams, a highly successful womens' team and a flourishing junior and mini setup. You would struggle to shoehorn any more rugby on there despite its several pitches.

The point is, however, and in my humble opinion, that there is little clamour for a semi-professional or amateur team operating further down the leagues. There are already plenty of others nearby for those floating supporters, most with a much longer history and more settled status than the current Yorkshire Carnegie. It's more than 20 years since the Headingley name disappeared and must be getting on for 10 or more for Roundhay. Some old alickadoos and supporters have found a home at West Park but many are now, sadly, no longer with us.

It was a really exciting undertaking in the early years, beating Leicester several times, finishing sixth, travelling around Europe and, famously, beating Bath at HQ. Unlike some, I don't blame Caddick for deciding he'd had enough. He managed to lasso Leeds Met as it then was to help out with the finances but never got any other sizeable investors. The current crop have seemingly done as much as they are prepared to. It just shows that you need extremely deep pockets over many years and a good dollop of luck too.

The big imponderable for is the academy. It's never been clear to me how it's funded and whether it could simply be uprooted and installed at Donny, for example. Given that there is a good setup at Kirkstall perhaps it could stay there, alongside the Rhinos, feeding the other senior clubs in the county.

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That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: ruckinspector
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 08:23

One can only hope that whatever is going to happen with YC it is clear well before the start of next season. Either they can afford/wish to seek to compete in the Championship or they cannot. The RFU cannot possibly believe it is good for the game, or for the top league under their control, that we go through another London Welsh scenario where halfway/two thirds of the way through a season players find they have no jobs/club, fixtures are cancelled and the integrity of the league is called into question with relegation being cancelled. Why not let the Academy players go and play adult rugby at one of the many other clubs on offer and see just how good they are? London Welsh accepted their fate, dropped down the levels, and by all accounts have a terrific, thriving rugby club again-perhaps YC should revert to the name Leeds Rugby club and do likewise.



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One day this pain will make sense to you


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 08:53
The difference being that London Welsh still had a ground to call their own.

Current best guess is that unless we pack up in the next few weeks we will go forward with a much reduced budget for next season. Some of the recent acquisitions are contracted through to the end of next season, then we have academy players and can potentially call on the best students. Hardly ideal, to be sure.

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That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 08:56
There is no rugby club at YC, it is a team.   It will not go down the leagues, as Albert says. If the players want to be pro then they will need to find another pro club; otherwise it is National league rugby and a real job.

From what I understand, a big lump of money need re-paying in June. It all hinges on if they can persuade someone to give them the money. That person must be under no illusion that they will never get that investment back.


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 09:09
I wonder if another club will look to acquire the academy? That must have some level of value.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 09:13
The academies are awarded at the discretion of the RFU.  There used to be a page on their website that showed the allocation county-by-county and club-by-club, but it was a bit too helpful for people who wanted to understand more about the ways in which the RFU fund the Premiership elite, so it was taken down.



Posted By: Talking Flag
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 09:33
So if YC disappear, Hartpury will remain in the Championship, regardless of where they finish?


Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 09:35
Originally posted by Talking Flag Talking Flag wrote:

So if YC disappear, Hartpury will remain in the Championship, regardless of where they finish?

And/or Richmond
(or technically, although improbably, any other team up to Coventry who ends up bottom).


Posted By: fenboy
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 09:50
Albert, I never had any problem with Caddick ceasing his sponsorship. It was the immediate repayment of his 'loan' which I have a problem with. The timing was cruel, that money could have been used to properly finance immediate promotion back to the Prem.

For, however, BRB hits the nail on the head with his first sentence. The club atmosphere at Headingley was great in the early days, even after the first relegation from the Premiership. There was very much a 'We are all in it together' feeling. Remember the Tuesday night match when we defeated Quins or the 'Million Pound Game' against Worcester. But piece by piece that atmosphere became eroded. The closure and demolition of the supporters bar, the admission fee to enter the Long Room post match. The constant reminder that you were always second fiddle to the Rhinos. The battle to get in some decent beer. Maybe not a big deal to supporters who live in Leeds, but for those of us who lived outside the city and like to have a club like atmosphere of our own to meet up and chew the fat in the 'Headingley Experience' became less and less palatable.

As far as I am aware, there is an acceptable stadium within Leeds, The John Charles Centre, which could well accomodate Championship Rugby with fewer outgoings. Has this avenue been explored I wonder. Or is it too much of a 'Recreation Ground' pitch for some of the dwindling band of Carnegie followers? Get a club back, and you may get some decent support again. Just remember it ain't going to happen in the next five minutes.


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Fucti Fineaux


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 10:31
fenboy - The home leg of the playoff  or promotion when we beat Newcastle Falcons, in wonderful sunshine, with a good crowd, superb atmosphere; that was also a wonderful taste of what could have been.   
My experiences this season, in the revamped stadium, have usually been dire; so bad that I will not return.


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 10:49
Headingley is soul less ground when it's not full. I haven't been since the redevelopment because it is an expensive especially considering the quality of rugby that was on show.

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Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 11:04
It is bleak.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 11:37
The ground or the situation?


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 11:54
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Headingley is soul less ground when it's not full. I haven't been since the redevelopment because it is an expensive especially considering the quality of rugby that was on show.
I agree with most of this except the view that it is expensive. There are obviously poor matches in dire weather but in my view Championship rugby is ridiculously cheap entertainment compared to the cost of seeing things like a music or comedy event or almost any other professional sporting match. There seems to be a view that rugby should be virtually free to watch and the grounds should sell beer at below the cost of pubs nearby. I'm sure it would be great if a mythical "someone else" with deep pockets should put money in so that we can criticise the team and moan that they haven't put in enough.  I enjoy watching rugby and imo supporters should properly pay a reasonable price for maintaining decent playing and ground standards. 

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 12:09
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Headingley is soul less ground when it's not full. I haven't been since the redevelopment because it is an expensive especially considering the quality of rugby that was on show.
I agree with most of this except the view that it is expensive. There are obviously poor matches in dire weather but in my view Championship rugby is ridiculously cheap entertainment compared to the cost of seeing things like a music or comedy event or almost any other professional sporting match. There seems to be a view that rugby should be virtually free to watch and the grounds should sell beer at below the cost of pubs nearby. I'm sure it would be great if a mythical "someone else" with deep pockets should put money in so that we can criticise the team and moan that they haven't put in enough.  I enjoy watching rugby and imo supporters should properly pay a reasonable price for maintaining decent playing and ground standards. 

It depends what you are comparing to. I don't think you can make a comparison to other forms of entertainment or sports, but you can compare to other teams in the same league. My comparison was based on the quality and enjoyment I get from the rugby and the craic - and these in recent years have been poor value at Headingley. I am almost given up watching at this level - the cost and enjoyment factors are better lower down the leagues. 


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Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 12:18
Are you free to come to Donny for the Cov game on Easter Saturday?


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 12:31
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Headingley is soul less ground when it's not full. I haven't been since the redevelopment because it is an expensive especially considering the quality of rugby that was on show.
I agree with most of this except the view that it is expensive. There are obviously poor matches in dire weather but in my view Championship rugby is ridiculously cheap entertainment compared to the cost of seeing things like a music or comedy event or almost any other professional sporting match. There seems to be a view that rugby should be virtually free to watch and the grounds should sell beer at below the cost of pubs nearby. I'm sure it would be great if a mythical "someone else" with deep pockets should put money in so that we can criticise the team and moan that they haven't put in enough.  I enjoy watching rugby and imo supporters should properly pay a reasonable price for maintaining decent playing and ground standards. 

It depends what you are comparing to. I don't think you can make a comparison to other forms of entertainment or sports, but you can compare to other teams in the same league. My comparison was based on the quality and enjoyment I get from the rugby and the craic - and these in recent years have been poor value at Headingley. I am almost given up watching at this level - the cost and enjoyment factors are better lower down the leagues. 
 
If you want astonishing value for money, try Rugby League. Trailfinder's tenants offered season tickets for £75 to locals!


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 12:34
Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

 
If you want astonishing value for money, try Rugby League. Trailfinder's tenants offered season tickets for £75 to locals!

Yes but I want entertainment too Tongue


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Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: geralltrugby
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 13:37
Awful for the players, staff, and supporters. My son went through it at Welsh and I know he really struggled with it as did many of the players who became disillusioned and left the professional game. Hope they all find some certainty soon.
One thing in their favour though where Welsh were looked upon as a bit of a problem child by the RFU Carnegie have often been mentioned as prospective members of an extended ring fenced premiership even when near the bottom of the Championship. Will be interesting to see how the RFU handle this as there is a precedent with both clubs run by a Micky Mouse board of directors. I suspect they will not be quite so keen to pull the plug in this case.


Posted By: Jed Eye
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 15:02
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

 
If you want astonishing value for money, try Rugby League. Trailfinder's tenants offered season tickets for £75 to locals!

Yes but I want entertainment too Tongue

Richard (and any other travelling Coventry support).

If it's entertainment you're  looking for, I am delighted to be able to invite you to the third and final Knights of the Roundy Tables Banquet for this season.  Any former attendee will attest to the splendid pre-match festivities on offer and I am prepared to guarantee that this one will not disappoint.

20th April, 12.30 sharp; 16 groats plus the cost of a terrace ticket will see you right.  And I'll wager the rugby will be enjoyable too.

Sir Spicious of Orl
on behalf of the KORT


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"May the farce be RFU."


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 08:48
Originally posted by Jed Eye Jed Eye wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

 
If you want astonishing value for money, try Rugby League. Trailfinder's tenants offered season tickets for £75 to locals!

Yes but I want entertainment too Tongue

Richard (and any other travelling Coventry support).

If it's entertainment you're  looking for, I am delighted to be able to invite you to the third and final Knights of the Roundy Tables Banquet for this season.  Any former attendee will attest to the splendid pre-match festivities on offer and I am prepared to guarantee that this one will not disappoint.

20th April, 12.30 sharp; 16 groats plus the cost of a terrace ticket will see you right.  And I'll wager the rugby will be enjoyable too.

Sir Spicious of Orl
on behalf of the KORT
I'm very happy to endorse this one. Pure python and as good an expression of rugby hospitality and fun as I've ever experienced. You will not regret doing it.

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: Ol' Blue Eyes
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 02:14
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

It depends what you are comparing to. I don't think you can make a comparison to other forms of entertainment or sports, but you can compare to other teams in the same league. My comparison was based on the quality and enjoyment I get from the rugby and the craic - and these in recent years have been poor value at Headingley. I am almost given up watching at this level - the cost and enjoyment factors are better lower down the leagues. 

The answer to this and frankly almost all problems in life, is simply to become a Bedford fan. Family club, well-run, sticks within its means, great running rugby, decent beer, superb match day atmosphere. Job done.


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Run it!


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 05:53
Bit of a schlepp from Leeds though.

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That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 08:11
Originally posted by Albert Fishwick Albert Fishwick wrote:

Bit of a schlepp from Leeds though.

Come to Donny for your Championship Rugby fix - better beer, better food, better supporters than those down South Albert Wink and the best Championship Ground.


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 08:18
Also not the easiest trip by public transport. Big fan of the curry and chips though.

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That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 08:22
Albert - People rave about the Cow Pie, but the Chicken Curry & Chips is definitely where it's at


Posted By: fenboy
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 08:34
And all the money ploughed back into the rugby club - what's not to like?

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Fucti Fineaux


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 08:57
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Albert - People rave about the Cow Pie, but the Chicken Curry & Chips is definitely where it's at

I am so with you there, it is my go to choice.


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 21:23
Or you could fly to Jersey, direct flight, short walk to the ground, fantastic people, Jersey Pride Ale and the weather!!!! ... in fact just book a 1 way ticket 😁


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 22:03
But the food at the Stade is not all that, and if you love a gale then the weather is for you Albert

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 22:10
Wind CPK? No, just a gentle breeze. Although there was that 1 time when we played Donny......


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 06:19
Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

Or you could fly to Jersey, direct flight, short walk to the ground, fantastic people, Jersey Pride Ale and the weather!!!! ... in fact just book a 1 way ticket 😁


Sadly, direct flights are only available at the beginning of the season. One way wouldn't be much good; I remember from a bus tour we took years ago on holiday how much an incomer needs in cash resources to buy property and I would be a long way short!

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That's easy for you to say.



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