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Premiership Debate

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donnyladinsheffield View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donnyladinsheffield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 18:55
14 teams and ringfenced. Unless they expand end of season playoffs (with issues arising then on numbers of games for players) that will be an awful lot of dead rubbers in a season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 19:30
Originally posted by donnyladinsheffield donnyladinsheffield wrote:

14 teams and ringfenced. Unless they expand end of season playoffs (with issues arising then on numbers of games for players) that will be an awful lot of dead rubbers in a season.


I have said it before, why change anything after a season like this one where almost every game on the last day of the season had something riding on it.

The threat of relegation keeps clubs on their toes - I suspect it is because there was a chance the mighty Leicester were almost relegated that this topic became a hot potato.

It's not broke so don't try to fix it!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 20:21
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by donnyladinsheffield donnyladinsheffield wrote:

14 teams and ringfenced. Unless they expand end of season playoffs (with issues arising then on numbers of games for players) that will be an awful lot of dead rubbers in a season.


I have said it before, why change anything after a season like this one where almost every game on the last day of the season had something riding on it.

The threat of relegation keeps clubs on their toes - I suspect it is because there was a chance the mighty Leicester were almost relegated that this topic became a hot potato.

It's not broke so don't try to fix it!



To be fair, Leicester have been continuously vocal in their support for promotion and relegation.
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donnyladinsheffield View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donnyladinsheffield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 20:25
Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by donnyladinsheffield donnyladinsheffield wrote:

14 teams and ringfenced. Unless they expand end of season playoffs (with issues arising then on numbers of games for players) that will be an awful lot of dead rubbers in a season.


I have said it before, why change anything after a season like this one where almost every game on the last day of the season had something riding on it.

The threat of relegation keeps clubs on their toes - I suspect it is because there was a chance the mighty Leicester were almost relegated that this topic became a hot potato.

It's not broke so don't try to fix it!



To be fair, Leicester have been continuously vocal in their support for promotion and relegation.


Tellingly, so are players who have been through it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 13:38
So, TRP had a story saying that Ealing (in particular its main backer, Mike Gooley) has stated that he would support a 13 team premiership with a relegation playoff - on the proviso that there would be more funding for the championship, in particular cannibalizing the "parachute" payment.
I'm not sure how I feel about this from a purist point of view, but from a pragmatic point of view, I think that this was politically astute. Either:
 
A: The Premiership is put into a politically awkward position by the request for better funding, and they have to back down on the playoff concept.
 
B: The Premiership agrees, and the proposal hives off several million more per year from the Premiership coffers.
 
Lots of other questions on what this would entail - could we have playoffs back in the Championship? Could there be a combined cup (how would that work with the extra fixtures), would the Championship stay the same size? Anyhow, we'll see how it plays out, but I think that this was a politically astute move.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 07:52
https://www.drfc.co.uk/news/article/club-statement-tony-de-mulder-on-ring-fencing

This is a statement from our Chairman on the ring fencing debacle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 09:55
Yes he's quite right. Is the current arrangement a 'restrictive practice'?
Definition: an arrangement in industry or trade that restricts competition between firms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 10:50
95% plus of interviews from those who advocate Ringfencing refer to the BUSINESS benefits of a closed shop, rarely the RUGBY benefits (of which no one has yet to put a convincing case).

Ringfencing is all about money. If the owners of the 13 clubs were to have the markets restricted or closed to them in their non rugby businesses they would be the first to complain. It's 100% hypocrisy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 11:25
Richard -some rugby benefits.  Ring fencing would remove threat of relegation. Consequently D of R's/Head Coaches would be more likely to give young England qualified players an opportunity to play rather than bring in ever increasing numbers of overseas players. This would increase the number of experienced players who could potentially play for the national team. How many of our excellent u20 World Cup squad each season get a Premiership start the following year compared to those of NZ,Aus and SA? More English coaches, managers, strength and conditioning coaches and medics would be given the opportunity to learn their trade in the highest league and develop for the potential benefit of the national team-we might even develop a succession plan for the England Head Coach. The huge amounts of RFU money pumped into the Premiership would go to develop more English players- not simply act as a pension pot for past it overseas journeymen. Finally the first job of a coach would not be to avoid relegation. This would potentially allow more risk averse styles of play being adopted and thus could see the top teams indulge less in either a box kick fest or simply hold possession until the opposition concede a penalty and then kick to the corner to score via a catch and drive. Finally there wul dbe less incentive to spend so much money on wages-thus allowing the millions currently spent to flow further down the game to hopefully ensure the places from which many of today's best players started still exist in 20 years time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 11:30
You have overlooked the fact that the Prem Clubs still want the big bucks of playing in the European Comps - as such they will still pay the overseas players to come fill that void to assure themselves of a berth, and less experienced / junior England qualified players will still end up A League, Loaned Out etc.
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 11:41
Ryan Walkinshaw, former owner of Gloucester admitted the development of academy players was "Low down the priority reasons to Ringfence the Premiership"


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 12:43
In addition the money is paid to the Premiership cannot see any reason they would give it back to the RFU to let it flow further down the game.  Also cannot see any way they would tell the top end players they were reducing their salaries for the good of the game
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 12:48
Still come back to my post of the 17th May

One more year of guaranteed funding for the Championship and then 

1) a renegotiation and all continues for the next few years am sure some agreement to change automatic  promotion would be built in 

2) premiership inspired nuclear option and funding is cut and ringfencing brought in with a lifeline to the  relegated premiership team. Can see 3/4 teams surviving but having to cut  their cloth accordingly but who would they play.

I hope option 1 is followed in some shape or form but fear option 2 is more likely especially with the track record of their new partner and ow they operated Formula 1 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mundiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2019 at 12:44
If (when) they ring-fence the Premiership, we should ring-fence the Championship players.  To sign a contract to play in the championship or below a player must be contractually obliged not to play for a Premiership club unless a £1 million levy is paid to the club that they transferred from. Simples
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2019 at 14:58
Originally posted by mundiz mundiz wrote:

If (when) they ring-fence the Premiership, we should ring-fence the Championship players.  To sign a contract to play in the championship or below a player must be contractually obliged not to play for a Premiership club unless a £1 million levy is paid to the club that they transferred from. Simples
The last similar programme was for clubs below Level 5 to receive a "reward" from national/ Championship or Prem clubs for players who played 1st XV rugby prior to their 21st birthday. This was on the proviso the said player had been through the original clubs junior teams, Premier academy player were excluded. But in my experience no Nat level club paid up despite requests to them, their CB or the RFU (only 2 cases to be fair). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WPL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 15:24
An interesting update - I wonder if it's deliberate it's come out on the European Draw Day (hide the bad news among bigger news)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 15:40
I thought this had been discussed before. 13 is just a stupid number.

I love the blase way that they assume Leeds will be able to continue if they survive the CVA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 16:09
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I thought this had been discussed before. 13 is just a stupid number.

I love the blase way that they assume Leeds will be able to continue if they survive the CVA.

The RFU has no interest or involvement in club rugby so they will be blase as it isn't anything to do with them and it doesn't affect them at all. I wonder if the RFU realises that there are a whole host of clubs desperate to know the outcome of all of this- probably not - how could they because that is to do with club rugby and proper rugby stuff which they have absolutely no involvement with or interest in
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