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Premiership Debate

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    Posted: 12 May 2019 at 08:29
Reported in press today the new sponsors CVC held at meeting yesterday in Newcastle with proposal to increase League to 13 Clubs.

Edited by stadium - 12 May 2019 at 08:31
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 08:55
13 is a stupid number as one club does not get a game, so the season is four weeks but only two games longer.
14 might make sense - but you may need to drop the Cup.
But, it means splitting the TV money between CVC and more clubs.
So could the clubs afford it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 11:17
Perhaps 14 is the plan. They increase to 13 for next season and then 14 the season after by promoting Newcastle and introducing ring fencing. Then all of the 'right' clubs will be in the prem and the nasty Championship clubs will be nowhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 11:24
14 would also allow one club to dream & test themselves against the best. Play off game with bottom prem v top champ, only if top champ meets criteria. Think Prem stadium limit of 10,000 should be lowered or even scrapped as long as all safety requirements are met.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elmsall man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 13:04
The R P today also says that there is a strong rumour that relegation from the Championship will cease in 2020
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 13:27
Originally posted by elmsall man elmsall man wrote:

The R P today also says that there is a strong rumour that relegation from the Championship will cease in 2020


I don't see the point in that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 13:29
Lovely. Two meaningless leagues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 13:47
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Lovely. Two meaningless leagues.


One of which is heavily bankrolled, the other being the pauper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 16:32
Kill off all ambition best just scrap the league system then as there is nothing to play for effectively killing the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 17:13
May as well given how nobody has managed to break in in recent years, 
Also all the clubs are solvent and do not rely on RFU subsidy.

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Ampthill & District 2019
Coventry 2018
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baggins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 18:19
If they are going to ring fence the Premiership they should ensure a good geographical spread of clubs and include any clubs with legitimate Premiership ambitions or who just happen to be in the right area Pirates and Leeds for instance. Then bank roll the minnows to ensure some sort of parity.
If that means 2 leagues of 8, if one league of 16 is too big then so be it.

Ring fencing the Championship would be stupid and pointless, it should stay what it is - the pinnacle of the semi-pro game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bluesman11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 19:42
The way I interpreted the comment was there would be no relegation from the champ for 1 year to facilitate the 13 team ring fenced prem. So 1 team goes up, 1 team gets promoted into the league and none get relegated for 1 season to keep the league at 12. There are no reasons whatsoever to ringfence it. There was also talk of a combined prem/champ cup. I expect if Ealing were to win the league though they would try to postpone the idea!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 20:39
Bin the Premiership Cup - even more useless than its predecessor (Anglo-Welsh) promote 2 more clubs to give a 14 team division.

Bin the Championship cup - even more useless than the predecessor (B &I cup - I see a common theme) promote enough clubs to form a 14 team division.

1 down and 1 up between Premiership and Championship, 2 down and 2 up between Championship and N1.

This system works well in France - no reason why it shouldn't here.

Benefit of a 14 team Premiership - should always be 1 weak team who can be relegated without upsetting the big boys.

In reality, I cannot see why ring-fencing is even being discussed given this season's competition has been the most exciting for many a year. Rarely a game has been meaningless with top 4 play-offs and Champios Cup qualification and a 3 way relegation battle.

basically -it ain't broken so don't attempt to fix it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 21:21
I would go for a 16 team Championship to give a 30 week season, same as Nat 1.
Though funding would presumably decrease from~600k to ~450k per team.
There are plenty of Nat 1 teams that would be able to be competitive given they get 400k extra and Championship teams would be operating on 150k less. 

The question then is do you keep Nat 1 or go Championship then Conferences.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 08:31
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Bin the Premiership Cup - even more useless than its predecessor (Anglo-Welsh) promote 2 more clubs to give a 14 team division.

Bin the Championship cup - even more useless than the predecessor (B &I cup - I see a common theme) promote enough clubs to form a 14 team division.

1 down and 1 up between Premiership and Championship, 2 down and 2 up between Championship and N1.

This system works well in France - no reason why it shouldn't here.

Benefit of a 14 team Premiership - should always be 1 weak team who can be relegated without upsetting the big boys.

In reality, I cannot see why ring-fencing is even being discussed given this season's competition has been the most exciting for many a year. Rarely a game has been meaningless with top 4 play-offs and Champios Cup qualification and a 3 way relegation battle.

basically -it ain't broken so don't attempt to fix it

Completely agree - but that's not what most of the self interested Prem clubs want, so it won't happen. It also seems to me that the same argument applies to The Championship - where payoffs kept interest going for more clubs for longer into the season and gave the poorer relations more of a chance to upset the well-heeled relegated Prem team. We all know what happened to that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 08:55
Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Bin the Premiership Cup - even more useless than its predecessor (Anglo-Welsh) promote 2 more clubs to give a 14 team division.

Bin the Championship cup - even more useless than the predecessor (B &I cup - I see a common theme) promote enough clubs to form a 14 team division.

1 down and 1 up between Premiership and Championship, 2 down and 2 up between Championship and N1.

This system works well in France - no reason why it shouldn't here.

Benefit of a 14 team Premiership - should always be 1 weak team who can be relegated without upsetting the big boys.

In reality, I cannot see why ring-fencing is even being discussed given this season's competition has been the most exciting for many a year. Rarely a game has been meaningless with top 4 play-offs and Champios Cup qualification and a 3 way relegation battle.

basically -it ain't broken so don't attempt to fix it

Completely agree - but that's not what most of the self interested Prem clubs want, so it won't happen. It also seems to me that the same argument applies to The Championship - where payoffs kept interest going for more clubs for longer into the season and gave the poorer relations more of a chance to upset the well-heeled relegated Prem team. We all know what happened to that.

 
The argument that gets advanced for the end of the playoffs was that the team going up didn't have time to recruit properly. That's obviously easily fixable - just shift the Championship season forward a month from the Premiership season - or with the new schedule, just keep the current season for everyone below the Prem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 09:35
That's logical, but we know that the 'time' argument was not the real reason. It's the perennial human desire of vested interests to retain privileges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fenboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 10:32
Just as a matter of interest and please excuse my ignorance, but why are players contracts for the following season signed during the current one? If players could not transfer until the current season is over then it wouldn't matter whether there were play-offs or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 20:21
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I would go for a 16 team Championship to give a 30 week season, same as Nat 1.
Though funding would presumably decrease from~600k to ~450k per team.
There are plenty of Nat 1 teams that would be able to be competitive given they get 400k extra and Championship teams would be operating on 150k less. 

The question then is do you keep Nat 1 or go Championship then Conferences.

 

This benefits Blues as 4 more home games would cover the £150k.  However, we would go back to the same issue as before that the bottom 4 would be way off the others.  Blues would put out weaken teams and still win 50+.

The issue with no promotion and relegation to the Premiership is two-fold:

1. No investment in the leagues below the Premiership

2. The owners who has lost millions in the Premiership and have always been at the bottom of the table will think that they can play a bunch of 18 year olds for peanuts and start to recoup their losses!  Why?  Nothing will happen to them.  The standard of the Premiership will decline and then all the BT money which was because there was a competition will disappear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 20:22
Originally posted by fenboy fenboy wrote:

Just as a matter of interest and please excuse my ignorance, but why are players contracts for the following season signed during the current one? If players could not transfer until the current season is over then it wouldn't matter whether there were play-offs or not.
 

Players need to know where they are going to be and earn a living?  Pre-season starts in June, then you would have a manic 1-2 months when they are meant to be relaxing.
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