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NZ v France

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Sid James View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 11:59
Just seen the Aussie fullback receive a yellow card for contact with the Irish 7 in the air. The Irish 7 landed badly and has been stretchered off.
On current form, that should be a sraight red but only a yellow from the French ref.
Crazy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 13:52
Originally posted by French Connection French Connection wrote:

Referees, administrators, World Rugby and everyone else involved in running the game are completely in awe and reverence of NZ. It's absolutely ridiculous, and was in full view here in France at the U20 World Cup. I saw NZ twice and they got the rub of the green every time, although even with that they weren't good enough to finish better than 4th. It even extends to World Rugby allowing them to perform their ridiculous posturing dance before games and much, much worse, forcing opposition sides to watch it and "respect" it.  It's becoming embarrassing and should be done away with asap.
As said above, they are a very good side and rugby nation and do not need all the advantages given to them. 

Why not ask some of the players that have faced the haka if they want to see it abolished? I've lost count of the number who have been quoted saying it was one of the highlights of their career.

But there is indeed something embarrassing about your post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 16:30
I like the Haka, but I liked it more when Huckleberryerill walked up and stood nose to nose with 'em.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 13:54
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Just turned this match off as it will no longer be a contest and NZ will win again easily.
Why? Yet another ridiculous red card decision.
French fullback has eyes only on a high ball and jumps to catch it. However NZ player jumps higher and falls over the French fullback landing on his shoulder/head.
The only reckless act was the NZ players lack of care for his own safety in such a circumstance. Outcome, French fullback is sent off.
Crazy.

World Rugby rescind red card on French fullback
Bearing in mind what Folau did to O'Mahoney a couple of times right decision. Yet they still backed the ref.
How does he feel having applied the letter of the law. Aussie Football and Gaelic Football is all about 2 players
Challenging for the ball in the air. As long as they do it legally they dont worry about duty of care if you are the last one to get to the ball.

Edited by tulip - 24 Jun 2018 at 13:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote French Connection Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 12:23
As it happens I have spoken to quite a number of friends of mine who have played against NZ and faced the Haka. They did all say that it did not intimidate them at all and that it was a highlight. What on earth does anyone expect - to say that they were scared? They're international rugby players and wouldn't admit to being scared by anything. And although I do know a few who have beaten NZ occasionally, in the vast majority of games they lost. 
It's not that simple at all- it's much more complicated and to do with things such as priming and cuing. These are subliminal things that happen automatically and subconsciously and have a much bigger effect on outcomes and behaviors than we think. It's fascinating, and if anyone wants to know more I'd recommend  a couple of books - "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman and "Behave" by Robert Sapolsky. Don't forget that the Haka is also watched by the referee and other officials - and that's just as important.  It's great TV without doubt - but is that now the main thing that determines our game? NZ know exactly what they're doing with the Haka - which is why it is as it is now. Have you looked at video of them doing it in the 70s or even 80s? No resemblance to today.
I actually have no problem with NZ or anyone else doing what they want before a game - however to stop opposition sides doing what they want to do and making them watch it "respectfully"is absolutely absurd. When Huckleberryers went right up to them and Campese kicked around in the in-goal that was indeed very entertaining - and NZ kicked up a fuss straight away. I wonder why that was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 12:36
The national anthem was introduced as a responce to the haka and was originally played after it.

I would be happy to say you either get one or the other - but not both.
You respect both sides 'anthem' and home side goes last.

Either that or the English side should insist on a morris dance - with ash staves and black face.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 12:42
While we are on the subject, the Irish should have either their national anthem or the call - not both!
RAID ON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 18:53
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

While we are on the subject, the Irish should have either their national anthem or the call - not both!

I'm Irish Raider but as somebody from Ulster I think it should be "Ireland's Call" However it was instigated because we have 2 countries playing together under the name of Ireland. It is used on its own for away games.


Edited by tulip - 25 Jun 2018 at 18:55
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Albert Fishwick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 20:44
I know many folk consider God save the Queen to be a dirge (not me) but at least it doesn't take long. NZ sing one verse in Maori and one in English, the Boks have two different anthems and Italy's just goes on for ever!
That's easy for you to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 22:57
Originally posted by Albert Fishwick Albert Fishwick wrote:

I know many folk consider God save the Queen to be a dirge (not me) but at least it doesn't take long. NZ sing one verse in Maori and one in English, the Boks have two different anthems and Italy's just goes on for ever!


Only because we only ever get the first verse!

Isn't the Boks 1 anthem, partly in one language and partly another?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 07:39
True, perhaps we should go on to sing of knavish tricks!

SA is definitely two anthems, Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika followed by De Stem, which was the old anthem before everything changed in the 90s.
That's easy for you to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 17:40
Originally posted by French Connection French Connection wrote:

As it happens I have spoken to quite a number of friends of mine who have played against NZ and faced the Haka. They did all say that it did not intimidate them at all and that it was a highlight. What on earth does anyone expect - to say that they were scared? They're international rugby players and wouldn't admit to being scared by anything. And although I do know a few who have beaten NZ occasionally, in the vast majority of games they lost. 
It's not that simple at all- it's much more complicated and to do with things such as priming and cuing. These are subliminal things that happen automatically and subconsciously and have a much bigger effect on outcomes and behaviors than we think. It's fascinating, and if anyone wants to know more I'd recommend  a couple of books - "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman and "Behave" by Robert Sapolsky. Don't forget that the Haka is also watched by the referee and other officials - and that's just as important.  It's great TV without doubt - but is that now the main thing that determines our game? NZ know exactly what they're doing with the Haka - which is why it is as it is now. Have you looked at video of them doing it in the 70s or even 80s? No resemblance to today.
I actually have no problem with NZ or anyone else doing what they want before a game - however to stop opposition sides doing what they want to do and making them watch it "respectfully"is absolutely absurd. When Huckleberryers went right up to them and Campese kicked around in the in-goal that was indeed very entertaining - and NZ kicked up a fuss straight away. I wonder why that was.

Then of course there was the memorable occasion when the haka wasn't allowed prior to a game in Wales and so they performed it in front of no one in their dressing room. No doubt they "knew exactly what they were doing" then too. Damn clever this intimidation through walls isn't it?

Personally I have too much respect for players of other countries to believe they can be intimidated by a few men jumping up and down and shouting at them but each too their own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 20:59
Originally posted by Albert Fishwick Albert Fishwick wrote:



SA is definitely two anthems, Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika followed by De Stem, which was the old anthem before everything changed in the 90s.


No Albert, it isn't...

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:



Isn't the Boks 1 anthem, partly in one language and partly another?


Yes it's one composite anthem, actually using 5 languages - Xhosa, Zulu, Sesotho, Afrikaans & English. One part of it is from Die Stem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2018 at 06:18
Fair enough, it's one anthem based on two earlier songs from different traditions, sung in different languages and different keys.
That's easy for you to say.
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