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Trident View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trident Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 16:31
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

T, I've seen the email from Jim and it states "status quo" not on the table. North DOC have no say until whatever shabby bag of washing is presented to them to implement, X or Y, and there is the other issue as soon as they dabbled in L6 they kind of went "off piste" and now have piste everyone at L6 off all over the North....should have stuck to sorting Level 7 and below.

Just received a letter from Jim and it clearly states 'status quo' is allowed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Griffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 13:23
Originally posted by Trident Trident wrote:

Just received a letter from Jim and it clearly states 'status quo' is allowed.

It is bit disconcerting to see so much conflicting information dribbling out.

1. "Both Options would include the Lancs League Clubs if they wanted to come back, Confirmed by Jim Chapman to the Lancs. Hon Sec. and which circulated to Lancs Clubs yesterday by email."

2. "Unhappy that only option Y had the ADM clubs in with no indication of how they would be placed in option X."

3. "It has also been confirmed by NOC, YRFU, and Jim himself apparently, that clubs can choose the status quo option."

4. "I've seen the email from Jim and it states "status quo" not on the table. North DOC have no say until whatever shabby bag of washing is presented to them to implement, X or Y"

If the option of Status Quo is correct, although it is by no means clear from the folk who seem to have access to Jim's emails and letters on this forum. Does that mean that all clubs will have one of three options to send on March the 18th. ie Option X, Option Y or Status Quo. Or is the Status Quo option only open to those clubs who are privy to Jim's emails and letters?

I don't know why I'm surprised at the conflicting information. It is an open forum after all. Big smile

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman. God = √-1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Griffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 17:34
A couple of emails which may help. the Status Quo is termed a Non endorsement of either Option X or Option Y. The first from Mark Downs the Lancs Sec and the 2nd from Jim Chapman.
=============================================================

Hi All,

 

You will recall at the last meeting at Wigan we shared an email from Jim Chapman to the effect that the Status Quo was not an option.

 

Below is a copy of an email posted on the Yorkshire Rugby Forum yesterday (13th March) at lunchtime, please see section 3 where I have highlighted that it now appears clubs can state they do not endorse either option X or Y.

 

I have advised Jim that I would be passing on this information to our clubs and asked that if they had endorsed an option already in light of this information they should be able to change that endorsement with a follow up email.

 

Cheers

 

Mark

 

=============================================================================== 

Dear All,
 
There appears to be a certain amount of confusion over what is being asked of clubs regarding the review of league structures in the North of England.  I hope the below will clarify the situation and remove some of the confusion surrounding the current situation.
 
1.   Clubs are NOT being asked to vote on anything.  Rather, clubs are being asked to endorse one of the options that have been sent out. The review group will then consider the results of this endorsement and will make recommendations which will be passed to the North Competitions Committee. The review group are scheduled to meet North Competitions on 26th March and will then send a communication to all clubs
 
2.   RFU Regulations state that where additional relegation is being proposed clubs are served with notice that this will take place prior to the start of a season. The only circumstance where this can be altered is where all clubs agree to any additional relegations.  The review group has a remit to make changes to the North-West structure in time for season 2019/20. However, it has not had any indication that clubs are willing to change from North Eastern clubs and, therefore, no change could be made to the North East structure until notice has been served prior to the 2019/20 season for effect in the 2020/21 season.
 
3.   Clubs may, if they wish, state that they do not endorse either option x or y. However, the ramifications of this need to be clearly understood.  If the so called “status quo” is adopted it would mean that no change would take place and would require that current structures are maintained including the retention of an eight team Cumbrian league and no re-entry into the English Clubs Championship (ECC) for Lancashire clubs who are part of the Lancashire County Leagues outside the ECC. It would also be difficult to justify making changes at level 8 and below in Yorkshire leagues (see below). It is also worth pointing out that Option “X” makes no changes to the current structure in Yorkshire. 
 
4.   In gathering feedback, a number of clubs at level 8 and below stated that they would welcome a reduction in league size to twelve clubs per. league. Many clubs at this level only field two teams and the feeling was that by reducing the burden of 1st XV league rugby they would be able to maintain their 2nd XV and a viable fixture list. In order to make this change it would require North Competitions to survey all clubs and, if required, serve notice of additional relegations.
I hope the above clarifies what is a complicated scenario. Finally, could I remind all clubs that endorsements are required by 5:00 p.m. on Monday. As stated in the original correspondence emails should be sent to
competitions-development@rfu.com
 
Best Regards
Jim Chapman





Edited by Griffin - 15 Mar 2019 at 17:35
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman. God = √-1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 20:07
So...erm...perfectly clear then!! What a fiasco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trident Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 20:26
It is also worth noting that at the 2nd Yorkshire meeting the room was full. It was apparent to all that the panel were fighting a lost cause. One or two L8/9 clubs stated they prefer 12 team leagues, but that's all.
Someone proposed a show of hands for and against change. It was an overwhelming majority against change but Jim refused to acknowledge this. From that point on he may as well have packed up and gone home.
Having just read the formal complaint gone in to YRFU, he isn't too popular.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 23:20
Originally posted by Camp Freddie Camp Freddie wrote:

Sorry MB not sure what you mean by conflicts of interest, maybe me just being a bit thick, always happens !,


Have a think about the roles of those serving the Clubs of Lancashire, that’s all clubs. Then have a think about if any of those people wish ‘their’ leagues to grow.

The ‘Lancashire’ league doesn’t have even 50% of Lancashire clubs. I see walkovers are occurring within these leagues plus one sided games. One team seems to have just given up. They aren’t Lancashire leagues as they don’t represent Lancashire rugby
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camp Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2019 at 09:36
They represent Lancashire Clubs who wanted these leagues formed and run.

As far as walk overs and teams giving up are concerned, it happens in the RFU leagues also

Port Sunlight 10 - Orrell 118
Aspull 106 - Port Sunlight 7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimesLikeThese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2019 at 21:46
Those scorelines are not new in what's usually been a very divided LC2 regardless of the presence of Lancs clubs - Port Sunlight were on the receiving end of a few hammerings like that last season and they weren't even close to the worst team in the league.
And that's the bottom line, 'cause Stone Cold said so!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2019 at 22:29
Originally posted by Camp Freddie Camp Freddie wrote:

They represent Lancashire Clubs who wanted these leagues formed and run.

As far as walk overs and teams giving up are concerned, it happens in the RFU leagues also

Port Sunlight 10 - Orrell 118
Aspull 106 - Port Sunlight 7


They don’t represent Lancashire rugby. They were set up to supposedly put an end to one sided hammerings and provide local competitive rugby, set up to prevent cry offs etc. They’ve not made one jot of difference
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2019 at 18:01
I suggest that we get back to the reality of a very interesting looking couple of weeks.

By the end of March we should have a clearer indication of the "favourite" for the third relegation slot - any thoughts about the key clashes on Saturday? Loo may struggle but Burnage are in  a must win ( preferably with a BP) struggle against DLS.

A few twists and turns likely just to keep us all interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 09:52
Just heard via the Club WhatsApp group that De La Salle's ground is waterlogged.
The game switches from Salford to Stockport and will be played on our 3G.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 11:32
Bit odd that! Although I appreciate DLS already doomed and with fixtures piling up why would a club give up home advantage together with the obvious revenue this brings
Interesting to hear what Burnage's relegation rivals think about this? It's not just about the 2 club's reaching an agreement and I would anticipate the RFU stepping in on this as it is a clear advantage to Burnage in the fight to avoid the drop
Not trying to stir it - just seems a little unfair to the others
Nothing wrong with seeking an alternative venue but "flipping" fixtures is only an option in the first half of the season
As this is no longer an option grounds should be sought by DLS in their area (e.g. local school or college) and should certainly NOT be played at Burnage

Edited by Thatbloke - 22 Mar 2019 at 11:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 13:00
Firstly, I’m just the messenger

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Bit odd that! Although I appreciate DLS already doomed and with fixtures piling up why would a club give up home advantage together with the obvious revenue this brings
Interesting to hear what Burnage's relegation rivals think about this? It's not just about the 2 club's reaching an agreement and I would anticipate the RFU stepping in on this as it is a clear advantage to Burnage in the fight to avoid the drop
Not trying to stir it - just seems a little unfair to the others
Nothing wrong with seeking an alternative venue but "flipping" fixtures is only an option in the first half of the season
As this is no longer an option grounds should be sought by DLS in their area (e.g. local school or college) and should certainly NOT be played at Burnage


I guess that if anyone is concerned they will be in touch with the RFU with a complaint, although I suspect that the RFU have suggested/enforced this move.
We'll have to see what Warrington, Waterloo, Manchester and Stockport think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 13:11
Lots of messengers been shot in the past!!😂😂 The onus is not on your rivals to lodge a complaint before the game is played - they may not even be aware of your plans?
Personally I would encourage you to persuade your club NOT to go ahead as planned
Certainly if you escape relegation you will face an appeal from the club who has replaced you in the bottom three on the basis you have gained an unfair advantage by playing 14 home games/12 away - an appeal that would surely be upheld and bring a 5 point deduction at the very least.
The only escape might be perhaps if you managed to finish more than 5 points above the final relegation place but how likely is that given there are only four games left and a big win on Saturday would only bring you level at best assuming your rivals dont win or pick up bonus points
Be warned!

Edited by Thatbloke - 22 Mar 2019 at 13:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Joy of (Level) 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 14:07
Surely the first thing that happens is that the game is postponed until the next available date?
TJOS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 14:45
Mike GC I would suggest that the two previous posters have made good points and Burnage should take note especially as the points made are constructive.

I'd hate to think what the Loo thread would be like if they become the third relegation candidate.

Obvious thing is for DLS to find an alternative.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trident Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 14:54
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Surely the first thing that happens is that the game is postponed until the next available date?

And in addition the regs state:
13.6.4
(e) Home and Away
 
 All League Matches shall be played on a home and away basis unless agreed otherwise by the Committee.

On that basis, i'd be checking with the League secretary and above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 15:16
DLS already have a catch up game to play at Northwich (not been officially rescheduled yet but sure to be 20th April, Easter Saturday, unless the two clubs agree a midweek date before then)
Postponement on Saturday would mean DLS v Burnage would be played on 27th April - surely no pitch issues by then??
The rules really are quite straightforward and there for all to see - whilst probably done in good faith its not upto clubs to come up with their own solutions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maroon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 16:15
The regulations state clubs must find an alternative venue if their pitch is not playable.

They also imply that only the agreement of the two clubs is required, although they do advise that the League Secretary should be kept informed if conditions make the match potentially unplayable.


13.6.6 Postponed Matches

 (b) Where a home Club in Intermediate Cup, Senior Vase, Junior Vase and Levels 5

and below, is concerned or has any cause to doubt the suitability of the Pitch or

Weather Conditions making the match potentially unplayable:

(i) The home Club must as soon as it is aware of the position advise their

opposition and the League Secretary (or relevant Organising

Committee in the case of Cup Competitions) of its concerns and keep

them advised of the position. All steps possible should be taken to

prevent unnecessary travel.

(iii) A Club whose home ground is unfit to play must seek an alternative

venue.  In the event of Clubs failing to agree on the suitability of the

alternative venue, a ruling can be made by the Organising Committee.

During the first part of the season, Clubs playing in home and away

Leagues will be expected in the first instance to exchange the venue to

the one originally scheduled for the second half of the Season.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 16:30
Exactly, two clubs to agree plus League Sec but no "flip" second half of season
Alternative venue but not that of the proposed visiting club, Burnage in this instance, which would give a clear advantage to them over the other relegation threatened clubs
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