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Topic ClosedLW Chairman In The News Again

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Mark W-J View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 07:55
The problem - I think - is that the RFU are making it up as they go along.  Welsh got a five point deduction not for going into administration but for failing to inform the RFU of their intention to go into administration.  I have to say that I think that this was because there weren't yet any rules in place governing the processes around administration - the 15 point deduction had been mentioned, but I don't know at which point the Championship laws were adopted and if they even made provision for teams going into administration outside of the league season.  So Welsh's deduction was more akin to the 'act prejudicial to the game' charge which is arbitrarily applied when the powers-that-be believe that something untoward has happened off-camera but they can't prove it.  And again, until a team goes into administration during the play-offs - or someone at Rugby Times reads this thread and raises the question in this week's issue - the RFU won't have thought about that situation and how to deal with it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 08:31
AFAIR the rule is that after 1st Jan then points deduction can be deferred to the following season.

None of this is pleasant ... but it does seem as though those closest to the situations forget some of the basics ... The CLUBS have develop realistic business plans and spend only what they can afford.  Okay this may mean that you have smaller squads or players/coaches earn less, but you have to cut your cloth to fir your circumstances.   The RFU have to be seen to act in good faith to all parties ... in allowing phoenix clubs to rise as they are it seems to me as though others can be said to suffer. 

A while ago Richmond and Scots were treated incredibly harshly by the RFU and they had to rebuild completely... and they did.  Today, worse infractions attract the mildest slap on the wrists.   


What a blessing it would be if we could open and shut our ears as easily as we open and shut our eyes!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 09:11
It's doubtful whether the RFU will intervene with anything in the Championship before the end of the season. As it is their new 'baby', they will want to see this through in its entirity, warts and all ! There could well be another shake-up in the league structure around Levels 2 and 3 sooner than we think, after the end of this season Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 14:12

Any news on the official statement out of LW??

Given the potential rumours, innuendos and probably downright misinformation that was circulating in the media etc over the last week or so, I personally would have thought it would be in the interests of the club to clarify things for once and all.

Hopefully the delays in issuing the statement are not a bad sign and before anyone accuses me of stirring it, the question is asked out of genuine concern for the supporters/members of our fellow Exiles.

Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 14:25
The Kick Off time for our Cup game at Old Deer Park on the 13th February has been changed to 12 md. Someone is confident on the outcome of the negotiations. Of course the only info was that things would be clearer by Monday, but did not disclose which one Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 18:34

Oh dear just seen this on the LW unoffical site:

LONDON WELSH SEVERS TIES WITH NEIL HOLLINSHEAD

20th January 2010 3.30 pm.

The former shareholders of London Welsh RFC Ltd. have rescinded the agreement, reached in July 2009, by which they sold the shares of the club to Red Dragon Rugby Limited. The club has severed all ties with Red Dragon and its owner, Neil Hollinshead. Mr Hollinshead leaves the board of London Welsh.

John Taylor remains as managing director and the club's main benefactor Kelvin Bryon, who has continued to underpin the club's finances over the past six months also continues as a director. The RFU has been informed.

'Under the deal signed last July, Red Dragon was immediately to provide £1m of funding for the club. No funding materialised from Mr Hollinshead or Red Dragon,' said John Taylor, now a shareholder in the club once more. 'After six months of broken promises we have had no option but to rescind the deal and seek new funding.

'We and others relied upon what appeared to be genuine HSBC documents,' continued Mr Taylor. 'We now have grave doubts about those documents. Our lawyers are continuing with their enquiries and the RFU have also instigated their own investigation.

London Welsh ownership reverts to the original shareholders led by Kelvin Bryon, the former Chairman and owner of Basildon Chemicals, the club's principal sponsor. London Welsh are currently lying third in the Championship, the second division in English rugby, and are now actively seeking new investment and sponsorship with the promotion play-offs beckoning.

'London Welsh is one of the great names in world rugby, the club has a proud tradition and now, once again we have a very strong team, we are capable of winning the Championship,' added John Taylor. 'This is a setback as the club goes into its 125th year but we are confident of raising new funding to take us through the play-offs and into next year. Everything is possible.

Good luck for the future, but does this statement raise more questions than answers??

 


 
 
 
Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 18:54
I don't think that this raises any new questions that haven't already been asked over the course of the last six months...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 18:55
egg on the face for RFU & Tenon - some people must be afraid for their jobs & reputations.

let's hope that the RFU learn some important lessons from this, and act accordingly
RFU Statement on London Welsh
Wednesday January 20, 2010
Issued by Peter Thomas
The RFU has been in regular dialogue with the directors of London Welsh since the New Year about the ownership of the club by Red Dragon Rugby Limited and the issues arising from that including recent personal bankruptcy court proceedings against Mr Hollinshead, owner of Red Dragon Rugby Limited. 

Given those challenges we fully support the decision to rescind the share transfer agreement and revert to the previous ownership structure while they search for new investors. The club's directors have gone through the proper channels to notify the RFU about the change in shareholders. It is important to note that the club is still trading and the team still playing in the Championship so there is no action for the RFU to take regarding the club. 

Francis Baron, RFU CEO, said, "We share London Welsh's concerns over some of the documents presented to the club, the administrators, and to the RFU, during the negotiations over the transfer of the club's shares to Red Dragon Rugby Limited. It is clear that all parties relied on what appeared to be genuine documents in their due diligence processes. The RFU will co-operate fully with the club's lawyer's further investigations. In addition, the RFU has already commenced its own investigation into the authenticity of documents supplied by Red Dragon Rugby Limited and whether Red Dragon Rugby Limited and its officers have brought the game and the RFU into disrepute under Rule 5.12. We will confirm more details on this soon."


Edited by champion - 20 Jan 2010 at 19:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 20:17
Originally posted by champion champion wrote:

RFU Statement on London Welsh
Wednesday January 20, 2010
Issued by Peter Thomas
In addition, the RFU has already commenced its own investigation into the authenticity of documents supplied by Red Dragon Rugby Limited and whether Red Dragon Rugby Limited and its officers have brought the game and the RFU into disrepute under Rule 5.12. We will confirm more details on this soon."
 
Interesting part of the press release - I wonder if those that approved the take over in the RFU could also be charged under Rule 5.12, as IMHO the RFU themselves have brought the game into disrepute by sanctioning the take over in the first place. Insufficent checks or controls to ensure that due diligence was carried out effectively. But, hey ho this part was probably inserted to save the face of the RFU!!
Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 20:59
Does this mean that LW get back their fifteen points deduction? Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 21:14
 they got 5 points deucted, while Bees and Cov got 15.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 21:22
If its back to the same owners as before, do they get another 5 points taken off? Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 21:29
should be 25 to make up for only having got 5 beforehand
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 21:59
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

 they got 5 points deucted, while Bees and Cov got 15.

I know, I know, I was being sarcastic given the Bees and Cov points deductions. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 22:04
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Does this mean that LW get back their fifteen points deduction? Tongue


Richard, would I be allowed to post a picture of Neil Hollinshead and a warning 'Never let this man anywhere near your rugby club! And if you see him at HQ in the hospitality boxes, tell the RFU to chuck him out.' on Rolling Maul?

As he will be there. I virtually guarantee it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 22:18
why notWink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 22:27
Originally posted by dottigirl dottigirl wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Does this mean that LW get back their fifteen points deduction? Tongue


Richard, would I be allowed to post a picture of Neil Hollinshead and a warning 'Never let this man anywhere near your rugby club! And if you see him at HQ in the hospitality boxes, tell the RFU to chuck him out.' on Rolling Maul?

As he will be there. I virtually guarantee it.

No, you can't. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 23:07
I feel for those at LW who have for months been saying that this was a mistake. And I feel for those who tried, completely genuinely, to make the best of things. But really, how on earth did professional companies, charged with (and paid for, presumably) doing this kind of diligence, manage to miss or ignore what other rugby clubs (under the RFU's banner) were saying? Several people somewhere should be hanging their heads in shame over this, if not worrying for their livelihoods. Good luck LW, you're gonna need it. And next time, do your own diligence.
(Hope I haven't said anything too controversial Richard, feel free to delete me if I have!)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 23:11
Why did the RFU not ask HSBC Bank to verify Mr Hollinshead bank statement.The RFU must answer for this fiasco.If they dont clear up the mess they have created then the whole issue could end up in the High Court at the end of the season.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 23:32
Originally posted by ispy ispy wrote:

Why did the RFU not ask HSBC Bank to verify Mr Hollinshead bank statement.The RFU must answer for this fiasco.If they dont clear up the mess they have created then the whole issue could end up in the High Court at the end of the season.


Copied from my DD post:

Who dropped the ball with the due diligence? Was it Tenon or the RFU? Or both? Or neither? Whatever the HSBC documents are (statements of account, an 'escrow letter' or other), if the account was overseas it would take months to ascertain the veracity of the documents. (Just because there's an HSBC in the UK doesn't necessarily mean there's a short cut.) And with limited powers/no gateway, neither Tenon nor the RFU would be able to obtain anything.

So in essence, they couldn't do anything.
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