National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > The Championship
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - London Scottish to move
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

London Scottish to move

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
Exiled_Scots View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
London Scottish

Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2532
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exiled_Scots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 19:13
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

My understanding of how Richmond / London Scottish worked was that there is an independent company that runs the catering and facilities. Not sure who maintains the grounds / pitches. This surely is only viable if the clubhouse and grounds are used to full capacity.

The bills to run the place virtually stay the same and London Scottish leaving surely puts the burden of these running costs on Richmond.

I assume by London Scottish moving on the income is halved.


Correct on all counts and Mond will need new revenue streams to fill the drop in the considerable bar takings etc. Ouch
Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!

Seven down one to go
Back to Top
marigold View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 2019
Location: Eltham
Status: Offline
Points: 213
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2020 at 20:35
According to my Richmond member mate because the Scots did not profit from any bar takings many of their supporters deliberately drank elsewhere in Richmond town so unlikely income halved. I thought  London Scots are tenants and pay rent to Richmond? Perhaps Richmond have a replacement in mind? Sadly could well be some clubs that need a new home.
Back to Top
corporalcarrot View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Location: St Ouen
Status: Offline
Points: 3404
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 08:13
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

According to my Richmond member mate because the Scots did not profit from any bar takings many of their supporters deliberately drank elsewhere in Richmond town so unlikely income halved. I thought  London Scots are tenants and pay rent to Richmond? Perhaps Richmond have a replacement in mind? Sadly could well be some clubs that need a new home.
I suspect this is very near the mark as I have regularly chatted with LS supporters in my own favourite RAG pre match venues - Triple Crown, Sun Inn & Kew Gardens (for food). The main bar at the RAG is inevitably access limited pre-match for the corporate lunch as it is in many clubs including Jersey but the other end towards the shop seems well used. The RAG is really convenient for the train link back to Gatwick for the last flight.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
Back to Top
No 7 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Location: LONDON
Status: Offline
Points: 1356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 09:06
    I am sure that Richmond have a plan and will make it work. There are some very astute people at the top of the club.


Edited by No 7 - 09 Jul 2020 at 09:10
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
Back to Top
Pappashanga View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 2025
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 09:09
In his interview Nick Preston of Richmond presented the situation as an economic opportunity for Richmond, while paying due respect and affection for LS and the hundred year association.
The RAG is in a very good spot and I expect they will fill the gap, as there are all sorts of functions they can put on. They also have a year to plan.
As for going to Esher, whilst it is an expensive leafy place, it's not London and relatively out of the way.
However the motive for the move is obviously commercial and anything more than zero must be good for Scottish.
pappashanga
Back to Top
Mark W-J View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2963
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 09:27
The bit that doesn't quite make sense to me is the timings of the announcement and the actual move.  Why are they staying at the RAG for another 12 months instead of making a clean break now?  Why are they lodging at Esher for a minimum of two years?  Surely better to make concrete plans and then leave the partnership as and when they're ready to start afresh somewhere new.
Back to Top
Richard Lowther View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: 19 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 11:03
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

The bit that doesn't quite make sense to me is the timings of the announcement and the actual move.  Why are they staying at the RAG for another 12 months instead of making a clean break now?  Why are they lodging at Esher for a minimum of two years?  Surely better to make concrete plans and then leave the partnership as and when they're ready to start afresh somewhere new.

The timings do seem strange. 

I presume notice has to be given to RAG/Richmond, but I struggle to understand the Esher ground share in all of this. Surely RAG/Richmond would have been in favour of three more years of revenue unless they have already got a replacement tenant lined up. 
Moderator National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC
Back to Top
Pappashanga View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 2025
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 12:11
Perhaps the covid losses have forced them to look for ways to save costs and earn revenue. It's a big step after over a hundred years and they are so embedded in the RAG they can't just up sticks and go. Maybe they've done a good deal with Esher. Some years ago I was told they were paying £40000 pa rent at the RAG.
The Richmond commercial people are very enterprising and I feel sure the income will be replaced.
pappashanga
Back to Top
JonDee View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 25 May 2007
Location: Nottingam
Status: Offline
Points: 1460
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 12:17
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

The bit that doesn't quite make sense to me is the timings of the announcement and the actual move.  Why are they staying at the RAG for another 12 months instead of making a clean break now?  Why are they lodging at Esher for a minimum of two years?  Surely better to make concrete plans and then leave the partnership as and when they're ready to start afresh somewhere new.


The timings do seem strange. 

I presume notice has to be given to RAG/Richmond, but I struggle to understand the Esher ground share in all of this. Surely RAG/Richmond would have been in favour of three more years of revenue unless they have already got a replacement tenant lined up. 


Agreed there must be a notice period as I said previously when Nottingham left Ireland Avenue it took us a couple of year to find and develop a new ground . Am sure that is the reason
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 12:43
As you say notice period and it stops rumours flying.
It will take time to build Championship level facilities - and we must assume that play will resume and there will be crownds wanting to come and watch Scottisheven if the league goes semi-pro.

It does nto say when the rest of the club will move.
It is probably easier to move the mini and youth onto a new field with temporary facilities  while you build the new main pavilion with all the necessary. 
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
JonDee View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 25 May 2007
Location: Nottingam
Status: Offline
Points: 1460
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 15:20
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

As you say notice period and it stops rumours flying.
It will take time to build Championship level facilities - and we must assume that play will resume and there will be crownds wanting to come and watch Scottisheven if the league goes semi-pro.

It does nto say when the rest of the club will move.
It is probably easier to move the mini and youth onto a new field with temporary facilities  while you build the new main pavilion with all the necessary. 


Planning permission can be the biggest !!! if it isn't already a developed sports ground getting agreement for access for 100s of supporters or mini and juniors , a pavilion with licensed bar and then you have floodlights . Its easier in the middle of nowhere but in a town a lot of people quite rightly object to big lights at 9 o'clock on a winters night. The list is a lot longer so they are being prudent in giving themselves time
Back to Top
Mark W-J View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2963
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 16:01
All the more reason to sit tight until they're ready to move in!
Back to Top
Dave G/w View Drop Down
Academy player
Academy player
Avatar

Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Location: Bexleyheath
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave G/w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 22:36
Rather than play at Esher, surprised LS didn’t try and share grounds with the metropolitan police rugby club at Imber court , Esher. Lovely ground facilities, good bar, big stand , would have helped the met out with rent too. 

Back to Top
JonDee View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 25 May 2007
Location: Nottingam
Status: Offline
Points: 1460
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 08:15
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

All the more reason to sit tight until they're ready to move in!

agreed but that's where the conspiracy theorists will have a field day
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 3152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 09:59
Originally posted by Dave G/w Dave G/w wrote:

Rather than play at Esher, surprised LS didn’t try and share grounds with the metropolitan police rugby club at Imber court , Esher. Lovely ground facilities, good bar, big stand , would have helped the met out with rent too. 



Not sure if this is right, but is it possible that Imber Court wouldn't be able to have the size of crowds Scottish require?

Presumably Esher already has a license/agreement that suits?
RAID ON
Back to Top
High Heidjin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote High Heidjin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 11:16
To get to the nub of why Scottish are moving, one has to wind the clock back to 1999. Both 1st XVs were playing in the Premiership at the time, having just completed the 98-99 season. Both had one major investor; Scottish had Tony Tiarks and Richmond, Ashley Levette. Bear in mind, too, that this was the early days of the professional game. Both 'owners' decided to pull the plug on their backing at the end of the season. As a result, both clubs and the Richmond Athletic Assocation (RAA), which runs the facilities for both clubs went into administration. The RAA was run on a 49% - 49% share by both clubs, the remaining 2% owned by the Bowling Club (no longer there) and small investors. The RAA chairman was appointed by Scottish and Richmond on a rotating basis. This all worked very well and very amicably until the administrators were appointed.

We all know about the 'law of unintended consequences'. This could well be what happened here. The administrators obviously wanted to get the highest offer they could get. One that came into the frame, temporarily, was Chelsea FC who wanted to use the Athletic Ground as their training base !

It seems that both clubs had pulled together a consortium of investors and ended up having to outbid each other. Richmond pipped Scottish at the last minute and took 100% control of the RAA. There were many accusatons in the backgroundof 'underhand practices' attributed to both clubs. Despite Richmond gaining control of the RAA, a great deal of acrimony still resides within a small band of the Richmond membership.

The next pivotal moment came in 2016, when the Crown Estate lease came up for renewal. Scottish had hoped that this process could, potentially, gain back some equity in the ground enabling future redevelopment etc. Those negotiations have been going on ever since. Add into the mix the RFU funding withdrawal / reduction and the impact of Covid-19, the ensuing consequences for both clubs in the short-term is not great from a commercial perspective. Scottish went back to the table one last time. What they asked for (equity back in the RAA of 50%) was rejected. Hence the announcements made last week.

Many members of both clubs are very upset about the situation. Having shared the ground for 126 years, one could ask, 'if you can share a ground for 126 years, why not for another 126' ? Other folks will need to answer that. Personally, I think it's a real shame, but for the sake of London Scottish's future, it's time to move away from the bitter acrimonies and it's time to move on .
The Inner Game Will Win Every Time
Back to Top
billesleyexile View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Location: North Oxon
Status: Offline
Points: 1076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 11:25
Originally posted by High Heidjin High Heidjin wrote:

To get to the nub of why Scottish are moving, one has to wind the clock back to 1999. Both 1st XVs were playing in the Premiership at the time, having just completed the 98-99 season. Both had one major investor; Scottish had Tony Tiarks and Richmond, Ashley Levette. Bear in mind, too, that this was the early days of the professional game. Both 'owners' decided to pull the plug on their backing at the end of the season. As a result, both clubs and the Richmond Athletic Assocation (RAA), which runs the facilities for both clubs went into administration. The RAA was run on a 49% - 49% share by both clubs, the remaining 2% owned by the Bowling Club (no longer there) and small investors. The RAA chairman was appointed by Scottish and Richmond on a rotating basis. This all worked very well and very amicably until the administrators were appointed.

We all know about the 'law of unintended consequences'. This could well be what happened here. The administrators obviously wanted to get the highest offer they could get. One that came into the frame, temporarily, was Chelsea FC who wanted to use the Athletic Ground as their training base !

It seems that both clubs had pulled together a consortium of investors and ended up having to outbid each other. Richmond pipped Scottish at the last minute and took 100% control of the RAA. There were many accusatons in the backgroundof 'underhand practices' attributed to both clubs. Despite Richmond gaining control of the RAA, a great deal of acrimony still resides within a small band of the Richmond membership.

The next pivotal moment came in 2016, when the Crown Estate lease came up for renewal. Scottish had hoped that this process could, potentially, gain back some equity in the ground enabling future redevelopment etc. Those negotiations have been going on ever since. Add into the mix the RFU funding withdrawal / reduction and the impact of Covid-19, the ensuing consequences for both clubs in the short-term is not great from a commercial perspective. Scottish went back to the table one last time. What they asked for (equity back in the RAA of 50%) was rejected. Hence the announcements made last week.

Many members of both clubs are very upset about the situation. Having shared the ground for 126 years, one could ask, 'if you can share a ground for 126 years, why not for another 126' ? Other folks will need to answer that. Personally, I think it's a real shame, but for the sake of London Scottish's future, it's time to move away from the bitter acrimonies and it's time to move on .

Totally agree, and there has been a lot of moving of grounds since the game went pro, and overall most clubs are better off for it.

With Mose, we had a decade in the wilderness and the god awful university years, but actually (quietly - and it's still rare that people will say it out loud) I reckon that other than the history and the location Billesley Common is now a better ground, with better facilities, than the Reddings.
keep the faith
Back to Top
Pappashanga View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 2025
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 12:20
Very interesting. Delving into history puts things into perspective.
pappashanga
Back to Top
Dave G/w View Drop Down
Academy player
Academy player
Avatar

Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Location: Bexleyheath
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave G/w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 12:26
Raider999 when they reached the national leagues , the stand itself can hold 600 . Then there is the rest of the ground . Shame as they stand is a lot bigger than Richmonds, but they must have their reasons to share with Esher 

Edited by Dave G/w - 10 Jul 2020 at 12:32
Back to Top
JonDee View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 25 May 2007
Location: Nottingam
Status: Offline
Points: 1460
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2020 at 12:49
Originally posted by Dave G/w Dave G/w wrote:

Rather than play at Esher, surprised LS didn’t try and share grounds with the metropolitan police rugby club at Imber court , Esher. Lovely ground facilities, good bar, big stand , would have helped the met out with rent too. 


Would Imber Court be able to cope with the mini's juniors, girls, colts and the other Scottish teams as its multi use and other sports may object if they have to give up ground
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.