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Hopping Mad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hopping Mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 14:57
Whilst "some" of the players called up have questionable international pedigree, I would suggest that G Davies, Francis and Russell were all in within a shout of the original squad when it was being selected.
 
The argument about taking 46 or more players from the start is a non-starter. This was the problem is 2005. Too many players means you don't get time to nail down your test side in the pre-test games as everyone needs a chance to impress. Hence the tough calls to leave out the likes of Launchbury, Hartley and anyone else who it is felt is hard done to at the time of the original selection.
 
Once the Test matches start then the midweek games become of almost a complete irrelevance. If the Lions win the 1st Test and have little or no injuries then it is more than likely the same 23 will play in the second test. Those players will need to be fully rested.
 
If they get tonked in the 1st Test then selection for the 2nd test will generally revert to those fringe selections that didn't make the first test but were the close calls. But then again you can't make sweeping changes. Recall Woodward's mass changes between 1st and 2nd tests last time?
 
Previous tours have been de-railed by a lack of focus once the main starting XV started to become apparent. Think Lions in NZ in 1993 when the entire Scottish front five plus Stuart Barnes basically went on the lash the moment they knew they were not going to play the Tests. They went "off tour" and the midweek defeats became heavier and more embarrassing.
 
It was the same in 2005. Too many players with the feeling of nothing to play for. In NZ there are no easy games and from listening to players on previous tours (be it Lions or Home Countries), NZ can be a pretty dispiriting place for rugby tourists.
 
Whilst I am sure professional players strive to maintain the right mentality, it is only human nature that disappointment will be evident in their psyche once they are not in the Test 23.
 
The whole Tour has been a bit of dogs breakfast. I mean who really can expect players to play within 72 hours of landing and then have 5 games in 13 days? The travel alone has been huge and meant preparation time is minimal.
 
I doubt front line internationals such as Hartley would have stood for being called up to come and sit on the bench for a couple of midweek games. They could easily have just disrupted the tour flow. The guys brought in have been done so to do a specific job and no doubt are thankful for the opportunity.
 
The bottom line about whether it has been the right decision depends on whether the Test series is won or not.
 
My feeling is whatever they do it is unlikely to be good enough. In future if not enough of a window is going to be given to Lions Tours to be done seriously then the itinerary needs to be reduced. Three warm up games and then three tests. Ensures two weeks preparation on NZ soil. Squad will then only need to be circa 32/33 players that can all hit the ground running and able to have a decent chance of making test starts.


Edited by Hopping Mad - 19 Jun 2017 at 14:59
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 15:42
I know absolutely nothing about jet lag - but I am sitting looking at the bird's nest stadium having flown out catle class on Saturday evening-> Sunday afternoon and done a full day's work involving speaking at a conference and meeting clients today.

So I cannot see how flying business class and staying in a 5* hotel you could possibley manage to play rugby the day after you land.

The bigger prolbem is playing a game and then sitting on the bench for a game less than seven days later  - which is obviously beyond any Lion's capabilities.

Not that the Barbarians have a problem.

Frankly I think the problem is with the size of the bench - I see no reason why International rugby should not be restricted to a bench of 5 and use interchanges, as per National 1. 
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Remember Izal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Remember Izal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 16:50
FB says he is picking some more random players like Tom Jones and Shirley Bassey.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 07:50
The issue is that 46 players is too many, especially with so few warm-up matches before the test series, but 40-41 is too few when you get to the business end of the tour.  An awful lot of people would complain if their players were expected to play 80 minutes on a Wednesday and then be selected on the bench on Saturday - player welfare is the hottest topic in the sport right now.  So while I disagree with the selection of the likes of Hill and Dacey, I understand the rationale behind picking cannon fodder to sit on the bench for the final two midweek games - although under no circumstances should they ever be referred to as Lions in any future press or biographies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pristine Shorts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 08:34
Well here we go again, starting with another stupid haka. Why do we put up with this rollocks ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 09:11
Originally posted by Pristine Shorts Pristine Shorts wrote:


Well here we go again, starting with another stupid haka. Why do we put up with this rollocks ?


I'm all haka'd out. It's diluted the main all blacks one. Not watching & can't even listen since talksport have it on a digital station so they can talkfootball transfers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 09:14
Originally posted by Loo fighters Loo fighters wrote:

Originally posted by Pristine Shorts Pristine Shorts wrote:


Well here we go again, starting with another stupid haka. Why do we put up with this rollocks ?


I'm all haka'd out. It's diluted the main all blacks one. Not watching & can't even listen since talksport have it on a digital station so they can talkfootball transfers.
 
LF, try this...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 10:58
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Originally posted by Loo fighters Loo fighters wrote:

Originally posted by Pristine Shorts Pristine Shorts wrote:


Well here we go again, starting with another stupid haka. Why do we put up with this rollocks ?


I'm all haka'd out. It's diluted the main all blacks one. Not watching & can't even listen since talksport have it on a digital station so they can talkfootball transfers.

 
LF, try this...
 


Have tried that before, not too good on the move, keeps buffering etc, but thanks all the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 11:00
Have just watched the 2nd Nowell try...what a belter. How many hands did that go through & Young Nowell has had his critics so far on tour but I thought he finished it brilliantly.

Edited by Loo fighters - 20 Jun 2017 at 11:01
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Bigmal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 12:06
Some excellent points made by Hopping Mad earlier.
 
Pleased for Nowell and the rest today but was it just me that thought the Chiefs to be the poorest opposition to date?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 13:01
Originally posted by Hopping Mad Hopping Mad wrote:

Whilst "some" of the players called up have questionable international pedigree, I would suggest that G Davies, Francis and Russell were all in within a shout of the original squad when it was being selected.
 


I'd agree with you.
Looking at the bigger, seasonal picture, Davies and Francis are regulars for their teams who've won their leagues.

I've heard the argument that more Scots than Welsh should've gone as 'Scotland hammered Wales in the 6N', then conveniently forgetting how Scotland were then taken apart by England a few weeks later. Also, Wales could've had 2 more wins and a potential 2nd table place, save for literally 2 minutes of concentration lapses.

Plus, I don't think we've seen the last of these call ups either. There's still 4 matches to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 13:19
Originally posted by CharlieP CharlieP wrote:

 
If you want to protect your best 23 by not playing them on Tuesday (which isn't something I agree with), then the 23 turning out in Hamilton should be the next best 23. 

All entitled to our opinions, obviously. Mine is that you'd be mad to play any of your starting XV, and the majority of your bench, four days before a test. Are any of the NZ players playing mid-week games this week?
 
Originally posted by Stoatgobbler Stoatgobbler wrote:



Plus, I don't think we've seen the last of these call ups either. There's still 4 matches to go.
 
WG didn't want to field test players today, and won't want to do so next Tuesday either. But once the Hurricanes game is over, I'd have thought there'd be enough players on tour to cover the last two tests, unless there's a real plague of injuries. I think there's even the prospect that some of the auxiliary players might be released at that point.
 
Good win today, nice little morale booster ahead of the very stiff test(s) to come.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamrose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 14:32
Daly did himself no harm today, the inside pass at speed which led to Nowell's second try was top drawer but it was the way he backed himself to take someone on the outside today, as he did for the winning try against Wales in the 6N's that I liked. A bit of X factor which the AB's will be wary of and he also has an excellent kicking game.
Think he will at least be on the bench on Saturday but if North is ineffective again, he could well start the next test 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 15:39
Originally posted by Shamrose Shamrose wrote:

Daly did himself no harm today, the inside pass at speed which led to Nowell's second try was top drawer but it was the way he backed himself to take someone on the outside today, as he did for the winning try against Wales in the 6N's that I liked. A bit of X factor which the AB's will be wary of and he also has an excellent kicking game.
Think he will at least be on the bench on Saturday but if North is ineffective again, he could well start the next test 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 21:30
1st Test Team:

Quote

Backs: Liam Williams (Wales); Anthony Watson (England), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Ben Te'o (England), Elliot Daly (England); Owen Farrell (England), Conor Murray (Ireland).

Forwards: Maka Vunipola (England), Jamie George (England), Tadhg Furlong (Ireland); Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), George Kruis (England); Peter O'Mahony (capt, Ireland), Sean O'Brien (Ireland), Taulupe Faletau (Wales)

Replacements: Ken Owens (Wales), Jack McGrath (Ireland), Kyle Sinckler (England), Maro Itoje (England), Sam Warburton (Wales), Rhys Webb (Wales), Jonathan Sexton (Ireland), Leigh Halfpenny (Wales).



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 21:39
Williams for Halfpenny is a surprise, and WG resists the temptation to play Sexton and Farrell (altho' they might link up in the latter stages). I guess if Farrell's the chosen place-kicker, Halfpenny's strongest suit isn't in play.

No George North - form ahead of reputation?

AWJ ahead of Itoje is a big call, in that case it seems to be reputation counting for more than form.

Generally I'm fairly happy that the form players have been selected, and there's some potentially really good impact from the bench, although I might have gone for a more explosive game-changer at 23.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldExile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 21:47
Given what Gatland has, that's pretty decent. I would question AWJ as a starter and I'm not at all convinced by Halfpenny on the bench. Time will tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geralltrugby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 22:50
Will be nice to hear the apologies from those accusing Garland of bias. Majority of English and four Welsh about what I expected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 07:30
Every coach has a hiding place since old Eddie called his subs "finishers". Made up for Jamie George even though one of his "go to" targets is missing, bit surprised with AWJ but would have it this way around as the last thing the AB's want is a fired up Itoje coming off the bench after 50/60. My biggest surprise though is Nowell not making the bench, coming to form at just over the right time & would have replaced 1/2p.Hopefully his time will come. Really excited now...COYL.

Edited by Loo fighters - 22 Jun 2017 at 13:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 12:56
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Williams for Halfpenny is a surprise, and WG resists the temptation to play Sexton and Farrell (altho' they might link up in the latter stages). I guess if Farrell's the chosen place-kicker, Halfpenny's strongest suit isn't in play.

No George North - form ahead of reputation?

AWJ ahead of Itoje is a big call, in that case it seems to be reputation counting for more than form.

Generally I'm fairly happy that the form players have been selected, and there's some potentially really good impact from the bench, although I might have gone for a more explosive game-changer at 23.


Alyn Wyn will be the most experienced of the starting front 5.
Stick Itoje in there from the start and it'd be quite an inexperienced front 5.


Edited by Stoatgobbler - 22 Jun 2017 at 13:05
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