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Level transfers from North to South

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Oldman1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldman1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 10:54
Tiger Dome 2, I think you are right.
I suspect (hope) that Lions decide to stay south as their style of playing, moving the ball with a fast set of backs and speed out wide suits the better playing style of the south.
But who knows anyone have any inside news?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allan Foster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 10:57
I don't really understand the position of Luctonians. Kingsland is quite a lot further south than Hinckley. Is their absence from this discussion due to their distance from the majority of N2S clubs clustered in the SE?

Just asking!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 11:14
Originally posted by Allan Foster Allan Foster wrote:

I don't really understand the position of Luctonians. Kingsland is quite a lot further south than Hinckley. Is their absence from this discussion due to their distance from the majority of N2S clubs clustered in the SE?

Just asking!
 
 
Aggregate mileage travelled is considered I believe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allan Foster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 11:19
Originally posted by Oldman1 Oldman1 wrote:

… their style of playing, moving the ball with a fast set of backs and speed out wide suits the better playing style of the south ...


Hhmnn … but of a stereotyping here Oldman1. It's difficult for the huge majority of us to comment on the old chestnut of the quality and style of N2S v N2N clubs as we don't see enough (any?) of both. Play-off results in recent seasons aren't a sound guide on which to make such generalisations

If you had seen N2N clubs such as Caldy, Sedgley P, Loughborough S, and Fylde in 2019-20 then you might have a different impression. But, overall, as we've seen over many years on this Forum, it's a pretty sterile debate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 13:08
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Luctonians get a mention each year as geographically, they appear closest.  They are however, serial escapees due to the average mileage calculation.  

Allan....as to the 'old chestnut'........although it is far from enough to generalise, Nat2S posters do get to see one northern team a year and will likely see two next year.  So we have a tiny bit more to work with.

Just a personal opinion, but all of the northern sides I have watched, have been forwards based sides. 

I was not going to contradict Oldman, but the stereotyping he mentions is in fact the polar opposite of reality in this instance.
Lions are an excellent side defensively and have a very good pack......a tremendous unit but with a few outstanding individuals. Those were their strengths this year. 
It is also true from the one time I saw them, that they DO try to play a balanced game and move the ball wide.  It is just that (by southern standards at least), they lack pace and penetration in their backs.  If they they do choose to stay south and can fix this weakness to a degree, they might push for a top 4 place (IMO).
The numbers backing up this assertion are pretty comprehensive...
Only the bottom 4 sides in Nat2S scored fewer points than Lions.
Only the bottom 4 sides recorded fewer TBP's.

If you (or anybody) wants a clear idea as to the relative strength of the two divisions, I think that 
taking a look at the composition of level 3 next year would be a fair indication......I think it is 14/4 now and the trend is troubling ? 

Lastly.....I (well) remember your side from the  brief visit to Nat1 by our lads in 2013......also describing Fylde on this forum as the Harlem Globetrotters of level 3.  I think you finished top 4 that year and managed to impose your playing style on some huge packs.  It is a shame we could not learn from that in time as we were in many respects a similar side in playing style.  You might recall our visit to your place where you put 8 tries past us ?  But we scored 9 ?  Quite a game.  Not one for the defense coaches LOLWink

Who was that big lad in your pack.....maybe skipper ?......great hands and prolific tryscorer ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saturnate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 13:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 13:39
Originally posted by Tiger Dome 2 Tiger Dome 2 wrote:

So in short

If lions decide to come back north  = 
Hinckley & Bournville go

If lions stay south = 
Lions & Hinckley go

Lions get the option to stay or come back as they were forced to go last year ..... after first season they can choose to come back or stay. 

That's why they went this time, as Hinckley  went last time so they had the choice and stayed .... now roles reversed.

Correct ?????


No, Hinkley came south some years ago so that didn't count.

Although Hinkley mileage was marginally below Lions there is a rule that says if the difference is below 2% then they are treated as equal in which case the team that finished lower of those teams has to transfer, hence Lions came south
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 13:42
Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:


If you (or anybody) wants a clear idea as to the relative strength of the two divisions, I think that 
taking a look at the composition of level 3 next year would be a fair indication......I think it is 14/4 now and the trend is troubling ? 


I believe N1 next season will have 5 'northern' (in fact N + Mids) teams: Leeds, DMP, Sale, Mose & Caldy... + 11 SW/LSE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 14:27
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Thanks Saturnate......pretty sure that's right. Arnold......... outstanding rugby footballer for a long time. 

Islander......quite right of course.....I forgot Leeds in and Richmond out.......the long term trend still an issue methinks ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 14:42
Hence it will be hinkley's turn this year ? 

If lions want to come back and it was lions that went last time .... This time Hinckley ???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 14:55
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Tiger Dome.......I think another poster mapped it out above somewhere ?  The collective opinion here is that Hinckley are definitely going south next year.....the only variable is all of us waiting to hear Lions decision.
It is either Lions and Hinckley or.....
Hinckley and Bournville
Personally, I hope it is the former.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harvey47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 15:57
If it is south for Hinckley then we will embrace the new challenge and hopefully get a local derby back . It will be sad to say goodbye to our friends in the North leaving only Loughborough students flying the flag for Leicestershire....................     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 17:31
I guess the big thing next season will be finance, if National sides and Premiership sides are screaming in financial pain, then lower down the crumbs that fall from the top table will be less.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isithalftimeyet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 20:43
Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

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Tiger Dome.......I think another poster mapped it out above somewhere ?  The collective opinion here is that Hinckley are definitely going south next year.....the only variable is all of us waiting to hear Lions decision.
It is either Lions and Hinckley or.....
Hinckley and Bournville
Personally, I hope it is the former.

From what I have seen of Bournville (albeit limited), I think their brand of rugby would be equally well suited to North or South
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 23:17
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IIHTY........i was not suggesting that Bournville's style of rugby might be unsuitable to the South.....I know nothing of their playing style.  But selfishly, I would like our division to be as strong as possible and in the past, teams that have been recently promoted to Nat2N and then level transferred, have struggled badly.  Broadstreet and Birmingham and Moseley the most recent teams to transfer and be relegated with few points.  I think Hinckley themselves only got 24pts back in 10/11 on their last visit. .

That said...I perhaps incorrectly assume that Hinckley are a stronger side than Bournville, but having finished third last season, that is an not unreasonable assumption ?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 07:19
Think you meant Solihull rather than Moseley !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 11:16
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That I did Fatbear.......late night error......likely beer induced Wink  The Moseley boys only escaped relegation themselves by the skin of their teeth......a fair chance Rotherham would have caught them IMO.

Here is a ridiculous flight of fancy to help while away the hours of isolation.  

In both of the next two seasons:

A southern side is relegated from the Championship.  Not an outrageous possibilty ?  there are plenty of them.

All three sides relegated from Nat1 are from the North.  This is less likely I know, but there have been two in each of the last 4 yrs and very nearly three in 15/16 when Cambridge went down on games won......level on points for 13th place.  Least likely.

The Nat2S representative wins the playoff for Nat1.  The south are 14-4 up historically and have won the last 4........so not a huge stretch ?

I think if ALL of these scenarios came to pass there would be:

15 sides in Nat1 would be from the south.  The promoted Nat2N side the only northern rep. 

I think there would be 6 northern sides in Nat2S.

Although this exact scenario is unlikely to be reached,  we have been moving toward it for some years now.....in increments.  
The implications for travel costs in the respective leagues (i think you would agree) are quite bizarre ?

I suspect that all of this should have a bearing on deliberations for future league structure, though I confess I have no idea how,

I have been following the league structure debate on the Nat2S status thread.  I have not contributed myself but might now dip my toe in.  My own concern is quality.


 
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Fudgepacker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fudgepacker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 13:36
I can confirm that the NCA has now contacted the northern clubs who could reasonably be expected to transfer seeking 2 volunteers. They have asked for an early response.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldman1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 14:06
Fudgepacker, can you confirm the clubs contacted are the four (Hinckley, Lions, Bournville and Stourbridge) are those contacted?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fudgepacker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 16:11
Originally posted by Oldman1 Oldman1 wrote:

Fudgepacker, can you confirm the clubs contacted are the four (Hinckley, Lions, Bournville and Stourbridge) are those contacted?

We (Bournville) have not been told who else has been contacted, but I know that last year it was the three you mention plus (I think) Luctonians. I cannot imagine Stourbridge or Luctonians will agree to be transferred voluntarily, so my working assumption is that it will either be Lions and Hinckley or Hinckley and Bournville to move. We would prefer to stay in the North as it gives us a local derby against Stourbridge and we also know Luctonians well.
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