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Level 3 & Below. New League Stucture.

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Halliford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 14:46
It was the Survey of Players at Level 6 and below that asked for Cup matches. Players wanted the excitement of one-off wins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 15:33
But that is not what they are being given at level 5 - they get four weeks of pool matches all round the country.

Level 6 do get a knock out cup - apart from the top 16 who get a silly pool based competition to make the numbers work.

It is at the end of the season - so unless you win your season is going to end on a loss.

Also your season could end in March

But the players wanted fewer games, so I doubt they would be up for freindlies hastilly arranged in the off weeks. I'm betting that when push comes to shove that is what will happen.

I am sure clubs will want a fixture at the end of April with a beer festival and the opportunity to hand out caps to the mini and youth.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 16:26
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:


raider, " The last cup finals were not played at Twickenham....."
Yes, none of the 19/20 Finals were played...….at all, you know because of Covid Lockdown.
 
The 18/19 finals were played at HQ.
 
 


I think I am correct in saying 18-19 season county championship finals were not at HQ despite previous years being so. I remember the complaints at the time (or at least I think I do)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote front5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 20:05
I have to say I love the cup competitions, I will never forget as a "young fan" the trip to Harlequins in 2000s with DMP round 5 i believe which was amazing for a North East 1 club at the time.

The round before beating Rosslyn Park at home in front of 2000 people at Yiewsley Drive... i even recall the announcer (my old man for his syns) DMP 7 RP 0 - DMP 14 RP still nil...

Our fullback at the time even picked up a trial at quins (Norpeda Stewart) spelling may be off but had the side step that Jason Robinson would be proud of...

1500 away supporters cheering at the the stoop who needs Jona Lomu when we have Micky Kent.. cup competitions make for dreams to come true bring back the Tetley Bitter Cup
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote French Connection Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 20:07
The Bill Beaumont Division 1 and 2 were definitely at Twickenham - same day as England v Barbarians as usual.  Not sure about the Shield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 21:15
It's understandable that cups aren't always popular higher up the leagues, but at the lower levels a cup is a great day out for supporters and players. A chance to play at a bigger regional ground or even at Twickenham in the intermediate cup for example.

I don't see any reason why teams within 1 level of each other can't participate in a tournament together, afterall some of those teams could be playing each other the season after.

You could have level 3-4 Cup, level 5-6 cup, Level 7-8 etc....and if they got their act together a level 1-2 cup 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 22:02
Originally posted by front5 front5 wrote:


Our fullback at the time even picked up a trial at quins (Norpeda Stewart) spelling may be off but had the side step that Jason Robinson would be proud of...



Norpera Stewart. Played for Wakefield too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Golden Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2020 at 07:31
Not sure cups are popular lower down the leagues either....witness how many call offs / walk overs happen. Clubs arent interested unless they are at Home and believe they will win! Times have changed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2020 at 10:52
Originally posted by Golden Jackal Golden Jackal wrote:

Not sure cups are popular lower down the leagues either....witness how many call offs / walk overs happen. Clubs arent interested unless they are at Home and believe they will win! Times have changed!

I don't know. Birstall RFC reached the Semi-final of the Shield or Vase, forget which, in the season just gone and a potential trip to HQ for a final is something that players at that level could only dream about.   

I struggle to understand the mentality around cups. 

In most leagues a maximum of six teams are either battling for promotion or to avoid relegation. For the rest they are mid table fodder with the season having little meaning. 

In this instance you would think they would want to have something to aim for? The prestage of a possible final at Twickers, the right to call yourself Cup winners, medals to remember for when you retire, and the resultant publicity (and possibly increased sponsorship on the back of it) should mean something. 

Maybe even a version of the Ranfurly Shield in each league - make each game have a meaning. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Puli. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2020 at 11:34
Richard I agree that the carrot of an appearance in a cup final at Twickenham is a strong factor in teams wanting to play cup matches, however am saddened by the demise in what was once a great cup competition.... T’owd Tin Pot ... the Yorkshire Cup. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2020 at 14:59
Originally posted by Puli. Puli. wrote:

Richard I agree that the carrot of an appearance in a cup final at Twickenham is a strong factor in teams wanting to play cup matches, however am saddened by the demise in what was once a great cup competition.... T’owd Tin Pot ... the Yorkshire Cup. 


It appears people are not interested in cups, well in Yorkshire anyway
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2020 at 15:59
The RFU have allocated 6 weeks to cups which means no more than 64 teams in a single elimination knockout. So you cannot even include all of level 6 - they get split into three. The top 16 gets silly pool based competition and the rest get a knock-out.

You could play the cup earlier in the season and combine levles 5 and 6.

The preliminary round would feature the 24 terms promoted from levle 7 and the 40 teams with the worst playing record he previous year. Then the 112 teams left play in the first round and have the 72 level 5 teams join for the last 7 rounds.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2020 at 17:25
Clubs will be given the choice of entering the cup mid-season. If they do that and the fail to fulfill a cup fixture (no doubt an away one) they should receive an automatic five point deduction for the following league season.Otherwise there will be lots of walk overs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2020 at 17:25
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The RFU have allocated 6 weeks to cups which means no more than 64 teams in a single elimination knockout. So you cannot even include all of level 6 - they get split into three. The top 16 gets silly pool based competition and the rest get a knock-out.

You could play the cup earlier in the season and combine levles 5 and 6.

The preliminary round would feature the 24 terms promoted from levle 7 and the 40 teams with the worst playing record he previous year. Then the 112 teams left play in the first round and have the 72 level 5 teams join for the last 7 rounds.




I still don't see the point in cups - the number of teams is being reduced at all levels (with the exception of Premiership and possibly the Championship).

We are told the reduction is wanted by the coaches & players, but then we add more fixtures on in the form of cups - where is the logic?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Golden Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 09:43
Agree Raider...The RFU insist reform is about player welfare and that there are too many games...Result, reduce the size of leagues but introduce cups and persist with the county championships...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 14:45
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The RFU have allocated 6 weeks to cups which means no more than 64 teams in a single elimination knockout. So you cannot even include all of level 6 - they get split into three. The top 16 gets silly pool based competition and the rest get a knock-out.

You could play the cup earlier in the season and combine levles 5 and 6.

The preliminary round would feature the 24 terms promoted from levle 7 and the 40 teams with the worst playing record he previous year. Then the 112 teams left play in the first round and have the 72 level 5 teams join for the last 7 rounds.




I still don't see the point in cups - the number of teams is being reduced at all levels (with the exception of Premiership and possibly the Championship).

We are told the reduction is wanted by the coaches & players, but then we add more fixtures on in the form of cups - where is the logic?


Logic? RFU!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 19:37
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Puli. Puli. wrote:

Richard I agree that the carrot of an appearance in a cup final at Twickenham is a strong factor in teams wanting to play cup matches, however am saddened by the demise in what was once a great cup competition.... T’owd Tin Pot ... the Yorkshire Cup. 


It appears people are not interested in cups, well in Yorkshire anyway

Isn't that because they have coops there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 20:54
No chickens have coops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2020 at 11:52
Originally posted by Puli. Puli. wrote:

Richard I agree that the carrot of an appearance in a cup final at Twickenham is a strong factor in teams wanting to play cup matches, however am saddened by the demise in what was once a great cup competition.... T’owd Tin Pot ... the Yorkshire Cup. 

Yes it is sad about the demise of the Yorkshire Cup and the reasons for the demise are well documented and debated.
I believe that the majority of Clubs do want a credible County Cup but the CB 'powers that be' seem to be only interested in staging a Cup Final rather than the route to the final. The date restrictions imposed on Clubs to have games played by are ridiculous. The best York's Cup years where when we played mid-week evening Cup matches but the CB aren't interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Surreyben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2020 at 11:56
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:


raider, " The last cup finals were not played at Twickenham....."
Yes, none of the 19/20 Finals were played...….at all, you know because of Covid Lockdown.
 
The 18/19 finals were played at HQ.
 
 


I think I am correct in saying 18-19 season county championship finals were not at HQ despite previous years being so. I remember the complaints at the time (or at least I think I do)
No - the 2018/19 final was most definitely at Twickenham - Trelawny's Army travelled up for the occasion and over 3,000 of them saw Cornwall lift the Cup after a seriously dramatic ending against Cheshire.
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