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Pappashanga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 17:11
Wonder what jobs they’re going to do? This is better than any soap opera.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 18:16
So far at least the recruits are coming from premiership clubs and not from level 3/4 and 5 clubs. I am thankful for that but I am surprised that YC can afford them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 19:26
Thanks Leeds for nicking our player. Work your heart out fundraising and getting sponsors and you flash the RFU cash. Bunch of radishs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 19:29
Who have they nicked?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 21:33
Tim Bitrim ex England 7s. 
Exercised his release clause 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 21:47
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Tim Bitrim ex England 7s. 
Exercised his release clause 

I have to say this whole debacle is now becoming completely out with the spirit and values of rugby. As FLH said Cambridge work hard to raise the funds to employ exciting young talent and then a desperate Yorkshire Carnegie aided and abetted by the RFU entice him away.

I am shocked...........is it legally Ok ? I presume so. Is it morally right? Of course it isn't, it stinks to high heaven.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 21:49
Yes, ‘deplorable’ is the only word for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 07:01
It is suggested on the Yorkshire Carnegie supporters forum that James Tinknell from Hull Ionians has also now been recruited by Yorkshire Carnegie prompting a furious reaction from another long standing YC supporter who has declared "This stinks I am out"

I am just appalled that the RFU are complicit in all of this enabling Yorkshire Carnegie to raid other clubs players just 3 weeks before the start of the season.

Some may scoff at the suggestion but from my point of view this collusion with Yorkshire Carnegie marks the absolute low point in the RFU's governance of rugby union. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 07:39
And still no clue from the RFU as to how they arrived at this decision. Surely if they feel the decision is the correct one they should be confident enough to share some or all of the reasons, in order to allow the interested rugby public to at least try to understand where they are coming from. Had this been a 'normal' season ie Championship matches starting on Sept 7th -could they have agreed to YC staying in the Championship when with only 3 weeks until the first league match they have nowhere near enough players? I understand some people stating we should all just move on, but ultimately the RFU's so far refusal to explain the decision  makes that very difficult. And then what happens when the tiny squad they cobble together gets significant injuries due to most of the players not being up to Championship standard/physicality levels, the dual reg players dry up due to post World Cup injuries and Premiership Shield matches and YC cannot put out  a team?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 07:47
....and in the meantime marigold clubs at level 3 and below like Hull Ionians and Cambridge have lost some of their best players to the Carnegie Raiders just 3 weeks before the season starts.................why and how have they lost them?.............because the Carnegie Raiders are using the RFU's money to tempt them away.....

.....and the money the Carnegie Raiders took off last season's players when they used the device of a CVA  to tear up the 2nd year of their contracts'

It beggars belief that any right thinking player would go to the Carnegie Raiders after all that has happened.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 09:00
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Tim Bitrim ex England 7s. 
Exercised his release clause 


I have to say this whole debacle is now becoming completely out with the spirit and values of rugby. As FLH said Cambridge work hard to raise the funds to employ exciting young talent and then a desperate Yorkshire Carnegie aided and abetted by the RFU entice him away.

I am shocked...........is it legally Ok ? I presume so. Is it morally right? Of course it isn't, it stinks to high heaven.


An earlier post suggests the player exercised a release clause, so clubs must have an expectation of this kind of event happening , a player stepping up levels.

If he went to any other club would you be saying the same things abour morals and legality or would you just be wishing him good luck for the future?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 09:08
Richard, it is disgraceful. Most clubs are usually happy to help players move up a level or more. But not with 3 weeks to the beginning of the season to a club that could not pay its players or medical bills and was effectively bankrupt . The only reason YC can cause this mayhem is because they are now centrally funded by RFU. The playing field is anything but level!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teddy1981 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 09:12
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Tim Bitrim ex England 7s. 
Exercised his release clause 


I have to say this whole debacle is now becoming completely out with the spirit and values of rugby. As FLH said Cambridge work hard to raise the funds to employ exciting young talent and then a desperate Yorkshire Carnegie aided and abetted by the RFU entice him away.

I am shocked...........is it legally Ok ? I presume so. Is it morally right? Of course it isn't, it stinks to high heaven.


An earlier post suggests the player exercised a release clause, so clubs must have an expectation of this kind of event happening , a player stepping up levels.

If he went to any other club would you be saying the same things abour morals and legality or would you just be wishing him good luck for the future?

I think the shock is linked to the fact that YC have basically chucked their morals in the bin and treated so many players and staff with utter disdain, written off all of their debt and then started afresh, with a 85% clean slate, to start picking players up out of already settled squads.

If it was a club who hadn't decided this was the easiest route out of a shed load of debt, I could stand there and wish any departing player the best. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 10:04
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Tim Bitrim ex England 7s. 
Exercised his release clause 
 
If he exercised a release clause, that would suggest he had signed a contract for next season with Cambridge RUFC. If he was contacted directly within 6 months of signing a contract with such a break clause, the Leeds DoR has acted within the regs.
If any other situation exists, the matter should be referred to David Barnes, the RFU Head of Discipline.
Disruptive, selfish and immoral but, within the RFU regs and, there lies the problem.
 
I believe that the Leeds situation was primarily responsible for the NCA Secretary sending an e-mail to all of the National League Clubs on 30/07/2019. The e-mail is headed 'Approaches to Contracted Players', and quoted RFU reg. 7.5.
Obviously the NCA were expecting the problems some Clubs are now facing.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 10:10
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Tim Bitrim ex England 7s. 
Exercised his release clause 


I have to say this whole debacle is now becoming completely out with the spirit and values of rugby. As FLH said Cambridge work hard to raise the funds to employ exciting young talent and then a desperate Yorkshire Carnegie aided and abetted by the RFU entice him away.

I am shocked...........is it legally Ok ? I presume so. Is it morally right? Of course it isn't, it stinks to high heaven.


An earlier post suggests the player exercised a release clause, so clubs must have an expectation of this kind of event happening , a player stepping up levels.

If he went to any other club would you be saying the same things abour morals and legality or would you just be wishing him good luck for the future?

A fair point Richard but there are very considerable differences between the two sets of circumstances

The expectation in the scenario you quote is where a player at say level 3 is approached by an established club at level 2 or level 1 because his talent has attracted such an approach. It happens but hopefully not just before the season starts ......but I accept it could happen just before the season starts. Would I be pleased for a player going to a higher ranked club in such circumstances probably as long as it was real progression to a club that could offer a better playing environment and a platform to perhaps improve the player. My view would be dependent on each set of circumstance and the why for the player.

However in the case of Yorkshire Carnegie this outfit has:
- torn up the 2nd year of playing contracts for a significant number of players 
- entered insolvency proceedings (as far as I am concerned a CVA is an insolvency event)
- obtained £500k of funding from the RFU to enable it to go raiding other clubs for players
- set about building a Championship squad from absolutely nothing for no apparent purpose

At present there is no Yorkshire Carnegie team to aspire to and no compelling reason to go there other than the RFU's money. I cannot find any merit in such a decision by a player to move from an established well run club like Cambridge or Hull Ionians
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 10:12
In answer to  the point made by Richard Lowther, if this was one isolated incident, there would be little criticism. However the indications are that it's  a concerted effort to poach players from other clubs en masse, by a club that failed to pay a raft of previous payers, with the help of money obtained from the sport's governing body.
Even the most devout apologist for YC would have to admit that the reaction is justified.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 10:22
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

In answer to  the point made by Richard Lowther, if this was one isolated incident, there would be little criticism. However the indications are that it's  a concerted effort to poach players from other clubs en masse, by a club that failed to pay a raft of previous payers, with the help of money obtained from the sport's governing body.
Even the most devout apologist for YC would have to admit that the reaction is justified.

That puts the whole sorry saga in a nutshell. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guinness John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 10:28
There is not much that can be added to this absolute farce, except, looking forward, it seems to me the only practical way of showing how most of us feel is to stay well clear of the place. Give them nowt. Don't attend matches there, and if by some chance you are compelled to go, simply keep your money in your pockets (or purses) don't purchase ANYTHING in the ground. Make the £500,000 have to go a very long way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fenboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 10:46
The sad fact is that YC put out a poor squad at the start of last season, too, and look where it led them.

It is time for the RFU to clear up once and for all as to whether there is going to be relegation from the Championship at the end of this season. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 11:11
So presumably there is nothing to stop them repeating this exercise again and again as long as it is within the existing rules until ringfencing occurs and they get pulled up into the Premiership ?
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