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Bigmal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 16:54
Bottom line is can YC put together a competitive Champ side within the clubs financial limitations? Most posters seem to be suggesting/stating that the answer is NO therefore the RFU need to be careful.

Is their any evidence to support the various statements regarding the RFU's desire to maintain a Prem team in RL's heartlands?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Member728 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 17:08

Statement On Behalf Of Richmond Rugby 

 

“Following the agreement to Yorkshire Carnegie’s CVA by their creditors which has resulted in the players who saved them from imminent relegation being paid only 15p in the pound for the remainder of their contracts, the RFU have decided that Yorkshire Carnegie will remain in the Greene King IPA championship without any sanction whatsoever.

While we, together with much of the rugby community it would seem, are surprised and disappointed with this decision, we look forward to renewing our friendship with the clubs in National 1 in what should be a very competitive and enjoyable season. We regularly have 90 players training during the summer and a large number of new recruits have joined the club. All five of our men’s sides will be as strong as ever.”


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Big Eddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 17:16
Richmond is a proper rugby club
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldNick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 17:38
Richmond have clearly decided that legal action would be pointless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 17:41
Everyone needs to get on with playing rugby, if they ‘re good enough they’ll get promoted. I hope we’re in for a good season .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 17:48
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Richmond is a proper rugby club
Proper rugby club that 20 yrs ago overspent and went into administration.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 17:52
everyone makes mistakes, it is particularly bitter to hold a grudge against a club for a mistake 20 years ago.  Since then Richmond have been a model club for what they aim to achieve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 18:07
Richmond have been pragmatic but they clearly agree with the rest of us that this will be a stain on Yorkshire Carnegie and the RFU for a very long time. I think by and large Yorkshire Carnegie's supporters think the same.

No one outside of the Yorkshire Carnegie insiders and the RFU is going to be sorry to see Yorkshire Carnegie fail which is a very poor state of affairs for everyone concerned. If Yorkshire Carnegie had been relegated they would have had people pulling for them.............this will never happen now and there will be no joy if by some miracle Yorkshire Carnegie are competitive and manage to stay in the Championship next year.

I think the RFU and Yorkshire Carnegie have made a terrible rod for their own backs and the backs of their players (when they get some)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 18:08
SK88 - Let he who is without sin......  20 yrs isn't exactly a lifetime
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 18:18
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Richmond is a proper rugby club
Proper rugby club that 20 yrs ago overspent and went into administration.   

...and went down to the very bottom of the rugby pyramid and then slowly built back up again over very many years. I don't know the circumstances of Richmond's insolvency but I am sure it was probably over reaching at the start of the professional era and there were quite a few clubs who did that. 

However you have to credit Richmond for learning from their mistake and not repeating it when they managed to get back to level 2.....as I said a proper rugby club


Edited by Big Eddie - 12 Aug 2019 at 18:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 18:20
backrowb you are quite right about Richmond. However the punishment they, London Scottish and latterly London Welsh received due to their financial mismangement, was to be dropped to the bottom of the league structure, not as in the case of Yorkshire Carnegie be allowed to continue in the same league, with no points penalty, and then potentially receive over £500,000 having shafted a whole load of businesses and players only a couple of weeks ago. I struggle with your comparison.

However what  I am really struggling with is that no particular person/persons at the RFU have the moral fibre/balls to stand up and be counted. All announcements about YC have come via the RFU PR machine. Who is accountable for this decision? is it the new CEO? Is it the Yorkshireman who was acting CEO? is it the Professional Game Board? Is it a small number of the RFU Council? If they make such an unpopular and unexplained decision surely there should be some personal accountability and responsibility? Or do the top dogs receive six figure salaries to hide behind the name RFU? They seem very quick to put their names to any perceived positives that appear. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 18:46
YORKSHIRE TYKES LIMITED were as of June 2018 living with a balance sheet deficit of over  £2,000,000 and were being kept trading by the generosity of a number of rich benefactors. In the year prior Saracens had a balance sheet Deficit of over £45,000,000.

For many clubs, their success only lasts as long as their benefactors. Leeds' model was not unique, but if the RFU change the rules to prevent a situation like we are in happening again then we will lose many of the top clubs in the country.

The only reason the RFU isn't technically insolvent is because of the ridiculous valuation placed on the unsaleable asset know as Twickenham Stadium. 

What do we as supporters want?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fenboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 19:01
I'd quite like Leeds to drop down to the bottom of the Yorkshire leagues, find their own plot, and build from that.

They would gain a great deal of goodwill if they did. I'd buy into them.

Or they could rattle round an empty stadium knowing that they are keeping their landlords from paying winter mothballing costs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Joy of (Level) 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 21:39
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

YORKSHIRE TYKES LIMITED were as of June 2018 living with a balance sheet deficit of over  £2,000,000 and were being kept trading by the generosity of a number of rich benefactors. In the year prior Saracens had a balance sheet Deficit of over £45,000,000.

For many clubs, their success only lasts as long as their benefactors. Leeds' model was not unique, but if the RFU change the rules to prevent a situation like we are in happening again then we will lose many of the top clubs in the country.

The only reason the RFU isn't technically insolvent is because of the ridiculous valuation placed on the unsaleable asset know as Twickenham Stadium. 

What do we as supporters want?




Therein lies the question.

Apparently Roman Abramovich’s loans to Chelsea amount to £1.2BN but it’s not unreasonable to think that when he sells he’ll see a decent percentage of that back?

Leicester Tigers were being marketed for a fraction of that fairly recently but what was the outcome (I really don’t know) and how much will the owners see back relative to their “investments” and sponsorships of the past?

The custodians of the so-called professional game need to re-assess things. Perhaps in the same way that all the money in football goes to the Premier League, too much of the money that goes to the RFU, after the onerous Premiership contract is spent on the national side?

We’re a minority sport spending money that isn’t generated by the sport itself, and never will be. Ealing Trailfinders might be promoted to the Premiership at the end of the season and yet only 1000 people want to watch them each week, and there are plenty of other Championship sides that don’t get many more but have far fewer effective income streams.


Edited by The Joy of (Level) 7 - 12 Aug 2019 at 22:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 23:28
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

YORKSHIRE TYKES LIMITED were as of June 2018 living with a balance sheet deficit of over  £2,000,000 and were being kept trading by the generosity of a number of rich benefactors. In the year prior Saracens had a balance sheet Deficit of over £45,000,000.

For many clubs, their success only lasts as long as their benefactors. Leeds' model was not unique, but if the RFU change the rules to prevent a situation like we are in happening again then we will lose many of the top clubs in the country.

The only reason the RFU isn't technically insolvent is because of the ridiculous valuation placed on the unsaleable asset know as Twickenham Stadium. 

What do we as supporters want?




Therein lies the question.

Apparently Roman Abramovich’s loans to Chelsea amount to £1.2BN but it’s not unreasonable to think that when he sells he’ll see a decent percentage of that back?

Leicester Tigers were being marketed for a fraction of that fairly recently but what was the outcome (I really don’t know) and how much will the owners see back relative to their “investments” and sponsorships of the past?

The custodians of the so-called professional game need to re-assess things. Perhaps in the same way that all the money in football goes to the Premier League, too much of the money that goes to the RFU, after the onerous Premiership contract is spent on the national side?

We’re a minority sport spending money that isn’t generated by the sport itself, and never will be. Ealing Trailfinders might be promoted to the Premiership at the end of the season and yet only 1000 people want to watch them each week, and there are plenty of other Championship sides that don’t get many more but have far fewer effective income streams.


Clubs work on the basis that the higher they go more will watch them as the quality of rugby and players on show increases.

It wasn't that long along that Saracens or Worcester or Exeter were attracting low four figure crowds but the support increased over time.

The same would happen to Ealing or any other club who could survive for a while in the top flight. The only question is, would the increased numbers mean more money through the gate and less reliance on a sugar daddy?

Generally the answer is no as clubs are in a no win arms race against each other which will end in a explosion.

The CVC investment into the game, to me, is a strange one. They must have a plan but I fail to see how they can get a decent return on their investment. The only part of the game that derives a return on the sort of money invested by CVC is international rugby. Club rugby, including the Premiership and European Cup is still hanging off their coat tails.

This isn't F1 when you can get countries to pay silly money to stage extra races or TV companies to bid silly amounts; it's a fixed season with a finite amount of teams. I struggle to see how much tinkering around you can do to that to get a return on your investment.

But what do I know?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rothman2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 00:49
They built a new big stand at Headingley but there is one major blunder with the design......it’s facing the pitch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 07:19
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

 

The CVC investment into the game, to me, is a strange one. They must have a plan but I fail to see how they can get a decent return on their investment. The only part of the game that derives a return on the sort of money invested by CVC is international rugby. Club rugby, including the Premiership and European Cup is still hanging off their coat tails.

This isn't F1 when you can get countries to pay silly money to stage extra races or TV companies to bid silly amounts; it's a fixed season with a finite amount of teams. I struggle to see how much tinkering around you can do to that to get a return on your investment.

But what do I know?

I completely agree with you Richard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 08:50
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

 

The CVC investment into the game, to me, is a strange one. They must have a plan but I fail to see how they can get a decent return on their investment. The only part of the game that derives a return on the sort of money invested by CVC is international rugby. Club rugby, including the Premiership and European Cup is still hanging off their coat tails.

This isn't F1 when you can get countries to pay silly money to stage extra races or TV companies to bid silly amounts; it's a fixed season with a finite amount of teams. I struggle to see how much tinkering around you can do to that to get a return on your investment.

But what do I know?

I completely agree with you Richard.

It probably isn't, at the moment. Just wait until they get what they really want and have a franchise model like in Super Rugby or like the lesser code used to have. This is an occasion where those "old fuddie-duddies" (as we characterise them) at the RFU for everything that we say about them, have got it right in blocking the removal of promotion and relegation. Because they know it will be a slippery slope towards a franchise model where CVC own all the teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 09:36
The clubs lose money - why would CVC want to own them, all they want is the TV contract.

Edited by Camquin - 13 Aug 2019 at 09:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teddy1981 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 17:07
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