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Haywards Heath Withdraw

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workerbee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 10:46
The cost of coach travel is High and going higher, The problem with any journey is not the distance but the time , relating to drivers hours. a driver may not drive more than 4h30m without a break of 45 minutes which can be split into 15 and 30 minutes. over that time the driver will need a further break and then factor in the return journey it can lead to having to have two drivers which drives up the cost even further. Or alternatively an overnight stay which again increase the cost. It is interesting when looking at planning journeys sometimes a journey of 95 miles can take longer than 150 if it requires to go onto A and B roads where coaches are stuck at 30 miles an hour. 

Edited by workerbee - 23 Aug 2021 at 10:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camp Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 13:35
CC - Both LoganAir and EasyJet fly from Liverpool. Easyjet lands on the Island at 14:05 and takes back off at 14:35.

LoganAir lands at 08:55 and takes off at 16:45, not ideal but maybe a change of kick off time might work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 13:09
Originally posted by Camp Freddie Camp Freddie wrote:

CC - Both LoganAir and EasyJet fly from Liverpool. Easyjet lands on the Island at 14:05 and takes back off at 14:35.

LoganAir lands at 08:55 and takes off at 16:45, not ideal but maybe a change of kick off time might work.

What size aircraft is the Loganair?

You are looking at ideally a 12.30pm kick off.

Get to ground before 11am so not waiting around aimlessly, game finishes by 2pm to allow shower, some food and dash to airport.

Just hope it’s not foggy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 20:16
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Canterbury to Redruth is one of the longest trips in English sport. It is further than Canterbury to Darlington.

Of course, Redruth make trips nearly that long most weeks.

But assuming RFU do the sensible thing of dividing level 4 as North, South East and South West -  then unless both get promoted, it will not happen again.

Redruth will still probably have of the longest travel - some things are immutable.


Strange from a club that was in N1 last season?

Has the National League got any policy in place to cover that sort of situation? Or indeed any cancellation due to Covid?

Covid cancellations are bound to happen, there is very little chance of playing them at a later date.

I would hope any team refusing to travel would be punished beyond the obvious conceding of the points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HAVANT TONY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 07:41
Scrumtime 
Which London south east premier club has notified kent of possible  pull outs ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 07:53
It is usually loss of points, however this season that is meaningless, it would need to either carried over to next season or converted into relegation.

Canterbury do not travel to Redruth until March, or Guernsey until April.
They do, however, have to travel to Barnstaple on 9th October - a mere 256 miles one way.




Edited by Camquin - 25 Aug 2021 at 08:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 10:32
I have travelled to the IOM by plane and we sat on the tarmac waiting until the wind dropped below 50mph to the plane could take off, There were a number of players looking very green when we arrived at Douglas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 10:44
Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

The Manchester case is a good one. 

Even if the hotel costs were funded why should someone playing community rugby be expected to be away for a whole weekend?

Obviously some lads would enjoy it but others simply couldn’t do it.

Unless there’s a better solution then unfortunately Douglas can’t take any part in any competition that wants to keep its integrity


Last time we played Douglas away (in March iiirc) we made it clear from the beginning of the season that the playing party would fly out Saturday morning and return Sunday early afternoon. This was in 2019 before we lost Flybe.
The first XV squad and their partners bought into the concept and a great short weekend was enjoyed by all of us.
- especially as we won !!
The lads funded their hotel accommodation (we negotiated a discount though) and beer tokens.
The old farts and their partners flew Friday afternoon and returned late Sunday.

Edited by MikeGC - 25 Aug 2021 at 10:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thunderbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 10:55
Having done the planning for the last few years
Bury St Edmunds to Redruth 375miles. No funding this year.
In the past the transport has cost £2000+ and the accommodation 1500. I estimate this year the trip will be just shy of £5000.

Bury St Edmunds to Barnstaple 301 miles . No funding this year.
Again can't do that in a day!!! So hotel overnight. So that's another £3000for the whole weekend. 


Bury St Edmund's to Guernsey. We have to fly from Gatwick and are expected to get there and back in a day. We get £2000 for flights. Every time we have a fixture with Guernsey the RFU try to get us to fly there and back on the day. We haven't done it yet to our cost . I have explained that we are not there just to make up the numbers. Which usually results in an agreement to a hotel stay. But no funding for the return bus. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 11:22
I assume you are sticking to the motorway, there is a shorter route via Milton Keynes, Oxford and Swindon - though taking the coach through Milton Keynes would be a right pain. The plan to put in a dual carriageway from the M1 to the A34 got canned.

I think travel funding for these trips is essential, as there is no reason Redruth, Guernsey, or Douglas should not play at this level  just because they are geographically isolated. But it is a financial strain for the visiting clubs, and even more so for them.

Personally, I think it is much more important than giving money to Premiership clubs to pay ageing South Africans, or for hospitality at Twickenham.  Though I know Thunderbird's and my County Chairmen well and I know how much commitment he put into the job. So maybe he should be permitted to wear his kilt to the Calcutta Cup match as a reward.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thunderbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 11:44
CC I have researched all routes . Often shorter routes result in longer travel times. Then factoring in drivers hours just to add a bit of variety. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 12:07
Yes, I am coming.
Always had a good time when we come over - win or lose.
Fortunately, the loss in 2016 was not important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thunderbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 12:46
See you there 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camp Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 13:32
The thought of AB in a kilt is terrifying.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkermentality Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 12:14
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

It is usually loss of points, however this season that is meaningless, it would need to either carried over to next season or converted into relegation.

My understanding is that if a team withdraws from competition then the result is that the team must re-enter the leagues at the bottom. (Ask Richmond, London Welsh etc to verify.) Defaulting on fixtures causes a loss of points with an (unofficial) three strikes and out rule which triggers withdrawal from competition.

However this season is covid-special and new regulations are included which state that if a team can justify withdrawal being due to covid then the penalty is to be placed in bottom place for their league. Bottom place means that the team is now subject to relegation rules but for this season all relegations from L3 to L7 are waived. So no penalty at all in reality. Does this suggest that the RFU haven't quite thought this last point through?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 12:32
There is relegation planned from L3, but that assumes that the Championship stays at 11.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2021 at 07:20
Originally posted by Bunkermentality Bunkermentality wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

It is usually loss of points, however this season that is meaningless, it would need to either carried over to next season or converted into relegation.

My understanding is that if a team withdraws from competition then the result is that the team must re-enter the leagues at the bottom. (Ask Richmond, London Welsh etc to verify.) Defaulting on fixtures causes a loss of points with an (unofficial) three strikes and out rule which triggers withdrawal from competition.

However this season is covid-special and new regulations are included which state that if a team can justify withdrawal being due to covid then the penalty is to be placed in bottom place for their league. Bottom place means that the team is now subject to relegation rules but for this season all relegations from L3 to L7 are waived. So no penalty at all in reality. Does this suggest that the RFU haven't quite thought this last point through?

Technically London Welsh cheated a little because London Welsh Amateur were already in Herts/Middlesex 1 as a legally separate club so when the pro side went down, the Amateur side just took up the name and ground. Haywards Heath are also slightly cheating because their 2nd XV is already in Sussex 1 so they get to start one year ahead of where they should be
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2021 at 13:41
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Bunkermentality Bunkermentality wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

It is usually loss of points, however this season that is meaningless, it would need to either carried over to next season or converted into relegation.

My understanding is that if a team withdraws from competition then the result is that the team must re-enter the leagues at the bottom. (Ask Richmond, London Welsh etc to verify.) Defaulting on fixtures causes a loss of points with an (unofficial) three strikes and out rule which triggers withdrawal from competition.

However this season is covid-special and new regulations are included which state that if a team can justify withdrawal being due to covid then the penalty is to be placed in bottom place for their league. Bottom place means that the team is now subject to relegation rules but for this season all relegations from L3 to L7 are waived. So no penalty at all in reality. Does this suggest that the RFU haven't quite thought this last point through?

Technically London Welsh cheated a little because London Welsh Amateur were already in Herts/Middlesex 1 as a legally separate club so when the pro side went down, the Amateur side just took up the name and ground. Haywards Heath are also slightly cheating because their 2nd XV is already in Sussex 1 so they get to start one year ahead of where they should be


The London Welsh club in the Premiership never played at Old Deer Park.

As you mentioned, they were a legally separate club.

There was no cheating, little or otherwise.


Edited by Stoatgobbler - 27 Aug 2021 at 13:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigChief Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2021 at 14:09
Most Clubs have an amateur/lower level/social level which is vital for that club, that particular community and the sport in the wider context.  Rugby for all?

There are several clubs still in existence (well done to them Clap ) that have fallen on dark times only for their '3rds/4ths' etc to then somehow consolidate and continue playing lower down the pyramid. 

To say "they just took the name" etc  (err the 'lesser side/XV' already had 'the name') or "cheated" (a lot or a little) is a pretty ill informed low blow IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2021 at 14:59
Originally posted by BigChief BigChief wrote:

Most Clubs have an amateur/lower level/social level which is vital for that club, that particular community and the sport in the wider context.  Rugby for all?

There are several clubs still in existence (well done to them Clap ) that have fallen on dark times only for their '3rds/4ths' etc to then somehow consolidate and continue playing lower down the pyramid. 

To say "they just took the name" etc  (err the 'lesser side/XV' already had 'the name') or "cheated" (a lot or a little) is a pretty ill informed low blow IMO.

Totally agree. If your senior side goes (and let's be honest, given they're salaried they usually do go when the wheels come off*) then absolutely your next most senior side becomes the senior side - whether that's in the Zoo League, level 9, or whatever. 

*speaking as a supporter of a club that basically once played out a season with the 2nd XV. Heroic failure about covers it. Though I accept that's a bit different because the seconds were fulfilling the firsts' league fixtures. 


Edited by billesleyexile - 27 Aug 2021 at 15:08
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