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Haywards Heath Withdraw

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Halliford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 13:16
It is interesting to contrast OEs and HH as the Clubs that have withdrawn from the Leagues. HH own their ground and clubhouse, OEs do not. Clubs with their own ground and clubhouse should have been better positioned to survive the last two seasons because of the ability to earn other income. OEs were reliant on one sponsor, HH were not. OEs had the classic position of the sponsor withdrawing, sadly through death in his case, which has seen other Clubs fold (e.g. Mounts Bay). Both Clubs have good feeder set-ups, HH their Minis and Juniors, OEs their school. Those feeders should enable them to rebuild over time as London Welsh have done. 

This RFU article may explain some of it https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/ambition-on-and-off-the-pitch-at-haywards-heath-rfc 

I feel sorry for everyone at HH which was my first playing Club, there are some happy memories of that Club. I wish them all the best in turning things round.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 13:54
I thought HH’s ground was council owned?

I may have been misinformed though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 17:04
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

It is interesting to contrast OEs and HH as the Clubs that have withdrawn from the Leagues. HH own their ground and clubhouse, OEs do not. Clubs with their own ground and clubhouse should have been better positioned to survive the last two seasons because of the ability to earn other income. OEs were reliant on one sponsor, HH were not. OEs had the classic position of the sponsor withdrawing, sadly through death in his case, which has seen other Clubs fold (e.g. Mounts Bay). Both Clubs have good feeder set-ups, HH their Minis and Juniors, OEs their school. Those feeders should enable them to rebuild over time as London Welsh have done. 

This RFU article may explain some of it https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/ambition-on-and-off-the-pitch-at-haywards-heath-rfc 

I feel sorry for everyone at HH which was my first playing Club, there are some happy memories of that Club. I wish them all the best in turning things round.


On the contrary, I would have thought that clubs with their own ground/clubhouse would be in a worse position as they have overheads to find without income. Don't forget hospitality has been virtually non-existent for 18 months.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delamas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 18:35
HH have struggled to retain players (and coach Ross Chisholm) since nearby Horsham received the RFU 4G pitch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 20:07
Stroud RFC have withdrawn from South West 1 (West) for season 2021/22 stating lack of players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 20:39
I think that is the issue at HH. Nephew knows some of the players from his Uni days and the chat is promotion…..no rugby for 12 months….players deciding too much of a jump up in standard for them. I guess Covid will have also made a few reflect (or maybe wives and girlfriends decide for them!) on their Saturday afternoon activities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 08:52
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

[QUOTE=Maroon]


And yet the regulations regarding promotion published yesterday state that there will be no relegation from Level Six, so they would effectively retain their place for next season.  Don't shoot the messenger!

Where can I find this regulation please? Searched high and low for it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Free Fall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 09:35
Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

[QUOTE=Maroon]


And yet the regulations regarding promotion published yesterday state that there will be no relegation from Level Six, so they would effectively retain their place for next season.  Don't shoot the messenger!

Where can I find this regulation please? Searched high and low for it. 

I believe this is the document Mark is talking about?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 09:54
Thanks FreeFall - I only had a screenshot of the relevant clause from our Fixture Sec, but it's Regulation 13 Adult Competitions - 13.2.6 Principles of Promotion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 10:13
And as important 13.2.7 Principles of Relegation which says:

at Levels  4  to  7  there will  be no  relegation,  and  at  Level  7  only  (unless  otherwise approved  by  the Committee)  the  Level  Transfer  Regulations  may  apply;   

That might upset one Level 4 Club!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 10:44
Many thanks. Lot to read there I’ll take a week off and go through it 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 11:01
Bear in mind, it is written with the situation as it - that is with the Championship remaining at 10 teams.
If they decide to increase the number of Championship side, the number of sides relegated from national 1 goes down, if it goes to 14 or 16 there could be no relegation at all. And of course, more sides will need to be promoted to fill the gaps lower down - but that gets diluted quite quickly as the number of leagues goes up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 13:52
I would suggest that the probable decision will be for Championship to go to 12 which would have 2 promoted from Na1 1 leaving them with 13 so to get to 14 the option would be 2 relegated and 3 promoted from Nat N and S. The logical thing would be to increase the Championship to 14 which would make all national leagues the same size , including the Premiership, then promotion from Nat 1 could be conditional on Ground Criteria being up to the standard of the Championship. But being logical is not something we expect from the RFU. Hopefully this will be made before we start the season which is only 2 weeks away. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 13:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 14:43
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

I would suggest that the probable decision will be for Championship to go to 12 which would have 2 promoted from Na1 1 leaving them with 13 so to get to 14 the option would be 2 relegated and 3 promoted from Nat N and S. The logical thing would be to increase the Championship to 14 which would make all national leagues the same size , including the Premiership, then promotion from Nat 1 could be conditional on Ground Criteria being up to the standard of the Championship. But being logical is not something we expect from the RFU. Hopefully this will be made before we start the season which is only 2 weeks away. 

The Chair of National League Rugby, John Inverdale, is on the RFU Working Party looking at how to restructure the Championship from 22/23 and is open to constructive opinions and views. He monitors this site! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 15:05
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

I would suggest that the probable decision will be for Championship to go to 12 which would have 2 promoted from Na1 1 leaving them with 13 so to get to 14 the option would be 2 relegated and 3 promoted from Nat N and S. The logical thing would be to increase the Championship to 14 which would make all national leagues the same size , including the Premiership, then promotion from Nat 1 could be conditional on Ground Criteria being up to the standard of the Championship. But being logical is not something we expect from the RFU. Hopefully this will be made before we start the season which is only 2 weeks away. 


I totally agree, logically 14 teams per league throughout would be the best option - so logical it will probably not happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 15:29
The Champ had 11 sides next season last time I looked
Am I missing something? A withdrawal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 15:35
14 is possibly a good number for an amateur or semi-pro league - as it allows more time off.

But if any side has ambitions to play in the premiership, it should be close to fully pro so might want a 30 match season, which is easiest to arrange with a 16 team league.

If you have a 14 team league, with 26 games, you would probably want to add a cup - and 14 is an awkward number for a cup competition.

With Championship players not being included in the County Championship, it the Championship season could even continue past May 1, if they felt they needed more breaks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 16:35
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

The Champ had 11 sides next season last time I looked
Am I missing something? A withdrawal?

From the 11 you get 1 promoted to the Premiership, that leaves 10. 2 or 4 up from National 1 - then the knock-on starts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 17:06
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

The Champ had 11 sides next season last time I looked
Am I missing something? A withdrawal?

From the 11 you get 1 promoted to the Premiership, that leaves 10. 2 or 4 up from National 1 - then the knock-on starts!
Ah, after the promotion. Fair enough - that'll teach me to skim-read LOL
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