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Final League Placings

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Pirate Pig View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 10:41
The RFU have released the following statement regarding the final placings for the Championship and all levels below tier 2.
The final leagues are not going to be available for viewing until 6pm tomorrow evening which seems a very strange time. Call me cynical but the timing suggests that they are expecting a 'backlash' from a number of very unhappy clubs.
RFU Statement;
"It was agreed that final standings for the Greene King IPA Championship and men’s and women’s community game would be calculated on a best playing record formula maintaining promotion and relegation for those leagues. The Tyrrells Premier 15s season has been declared null and void as there is no promotion or relegation in this league.

RFU President, Peter Wheeler, said: “We believe that the decisions made provide fair and balanced outcomes for the game and maintain the integrity of the competitions. We have listened to recommendations from the heart of the game and the approach has been ratified by the RFU Council.

“This has been a difficult decision to make in the most unprecedented of circumstances. There is no single solution that will suit every club, but the approach taken is one that we believe best reflects the nature of league rugby in England.

“With 80% of the season complete for the community game, we believe our approach is fair and the right one for our leagues. We have clubs that are clear league leaders and those who have said they would benefit from relegation to play more meaningful rugby.”

Final league tables will be available on www.EnglandRugby.com by 6pm, Friday 3 April.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isleonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 11:07
Help. What, please, is a "...best playing record formula..."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isleonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 11:09
Second bite, please. Does this mean that Leeds disappear into oblivion?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blutarsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 11:12
Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:

Second bite, please. Does this mean that Leeds disappear into oblivion?

Just relegated one level. 

I believe this means average points per game is used. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 11:23
Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:

Help. What, please, is a "...best playing record formula..."
 It was used during the foot & mouth season. A bit like the cricket Duckworth Lewis system, a winning and score predictor calculation tool used in to predict scores and possible results based upon recent results, league positions, home and away record and recent fixtures between clubs. 

But they won't tell us how it works!! lol

Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 11:35
Originally posted by Cannon Cannon wrote:

Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:

Help. What, please, is a "...best playing record formula..."
 It was used during the foot & mouth season. A bit like the cricket Duckworth Lewis system, a winning and score predictor calculation tool used in to predict scores and possible results based upon recent results, league positions, home and away record and recent fixtures between clubs. 

But they won't tell us how it works!! lol


Not long to wait I suppose but with a bit of help from others I read it the other way as they are *not* going to Duckworth Lewis future fixtures this time but rather just stick average points per match onto each club's totals.

As I say, not long to find out...
keep the faith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 11:56
Presumably points difference average?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 12:20
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by Cannon Cannon wrote:

Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:

Help. What, please, is a "...best playing record formula..."
 It was used during the foot & mouth season. A bit like the cricket Duckworth Lewis system, a winning and score predictor calculation tool used in to predict scores and possible results based upon recent results, league positions, home and away record and recent fixtures between clubs. 

But they won't tell us how it works!! lol


Not long to wait I suppose but with a bit of help from others I read it the other way as they are *not* going to Duckworth Lewis future fixtures this time but rather just stick average points per match onto each club's totals.

As I say, not long to find out...
Not long to wait? Why, though? I'm sure they know already.
Surely they're not expecting a s41tstorm and have delayed it so they can sit there with their fingers in their ears over the weekend?
Surely?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 12:25
My thoughts exactly Kimbo - if a decision has been made, then announce it!

The only poss reason I can imagine is that they're waiting for 6pm when they think the lawyers will have gone home for the weekend.....haven't they heard they're already at home and have a digitised writ generation app available 24x7?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hrplaneman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 12:36
Leeds website is showing an interview with Phil Davies saying they have been relegated and that next season they will be playing under a new name. Wonder what happens academy wise? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isleonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 12:39
Hopefully it will result in huge High Court claims and counter-claims Then we can put all the law firms in a hat and ask the RFU to produce a league table? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 12:51
These are the 'workings' I've seen:

The average number of points (including Bonus Points) gained for all ‘Home’ games played up to 16th March was calculated.  This amount will be added to the Club’s points total for each outstanding ‘Home’ game.
The average number of points (including Bonus Points) gained for all ‘Away’ games played up to 16th March was calculated.  This amount will be further added to the Club’s points total for each outstanding ‘Away’ game.

The standings aren't actually affected as i understand it, other than LS (currently 10th) are set to leapfrog Donny (currently 9th). Falcons promoted, Carnegie relegated, I assume 'Mond' coming up but that last one isn't confirmed...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 13:01
Originally posted by hrplaneman hrplaneman wrote:

Leeds website is showing an interview with Phil Davies saying they have been relegated and that next season they will be playing under a new name. Wonder what happens academy wise? 


I think the academy is the least of their problems.

1 Will they exist without any RFU money to bail them out?
2 where will they play if they do exist?
3 will all contracts be honoured this season or another CVA?
4 what are they going to call themselves next year?

For what it's worth, my opinion on the Academy - it should move to Doncaster
RAID ON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 13:10
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

These are the 'workings' I've seen:

The average number of points (including Bonus Points) gained for all ‘Home’ games played up to 16th March was calculated.  This amount will be added to the Club’s points total for each outstanding ‘Home’ game.
The average number of points (including Bonus Points) gained for all ‘Away’ games played up to 16th March was calculated.  This amount will be further added to the Club’s points total for each outstanding ‘Away’ game.

The standings aren't actually affected as i understand it, other than LS (currently 10th) are set to leapfrog Donny (currently 9th). Falcons promoted, Carnegie relegated, I assume 'Mond' coming up but that last one isn't confirmed...


Is that the same as "table stands 'as is' unless you've not had chance to replay a game postponed"?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 13:13
Originally posted by Bill Sley Bill Sley wrote:

Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

These are the 'workings' I've seen:

The average number of points (including Bonus Points) gained for all ‘Home’ games played up to 16th March was calculated.  This amount will be added to the Club’s points total for each outstanding ‘Home’ game.
The average number of points (including Bonus Points) gained for all ‘Away’ games played up to 16th March was calculated.  This amount will be further added to the Club’s points total for each outstanding ‘Away’ game.

The standings aren't actually affected as i understand it, other than LS (currently 10th) are set to leapfrog Donny (currently 9th). Falcons promoted, Carnegie relegated, I assume 'Mond' coming up but that last one isn't confirmed...


Is that the same as "table stands 'as is' unless you've not had chance to replay a game postponed"?



No it is average points for all unplaced games then work out the table (same as current table unless teams have outstanding cancelled games)

There is no way any postponed games are going to be played - the season has been over for weeks
RAID ON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 13:22
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Bill Sley Bill Sley wrote:

Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

These are the 'workings' I've seen:

The average number of points (including Bonus Points) gained for all ‘Home’ games played up to 16th March was calculated.  This amount will be added to the Club’s points total for each outstanding ‘Home’ game.
The average number of points (including Bonus Points) gained for all ‘Away’ games played up to 16th March was calculated.  This amount will be further added to the Club’s points total for each outstanding ‘Away’ game.

The standings aren't actually affected as i understand it, other than LS (currently 10th) are set to leapfrog Donny (currently 9th). Falcons promoted, Carnegie relegated, I assume 'Mond' coming up but that last one isn't confirmed...


Is that the same as "table stands 'as is' unless you've not had chance to replay a game postponed"?



No it is average points for all unplaced games then work out the table (same as current table unless teams have outstanding cancelled games)

There is no way any postponed games are going to be played - the season has been over for weeks

Thanks - I've not heard the expression 'unplaced games' before, so not sure I'm any the wiser. Ref postponed games - I was referring to games that were postponed (originally....then subsequently cancelled).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 13:48
Bill - sorry, but you've made this unnecessarily complicated IMHO. No major* changes to tables, but yes in some cases teams may move up or down a place or two as a result of the uneven number of games played. R999 meant to type 'unplayed' rather than 'unplaced'...

The updated table now on Twitter, can't post here right now, but includes (P) and (R) next to the 1st and 12th-placed sides. Well done Falcons & good luck Leeds, as it seems you are now to be called again...

My 'no major' comment refers to GKIPAC - there will no doubt be cases where promotion or relegation issues are decided in this way. My home club in London/SE may be relegated as a result of team below having had an unexpected BP win in a rearranged game on the Saturday before shutdown that bumped them up a place... them's the breaks Cry but I believe it remains the best/fairest solution. A game of rugby is deemed 'complete' if it has to be abandoned for unforseen reasons after 'three-quarter time' (60 min) so believe the same approach for the season is the correct call...


Edited by islander - 02 Apr 2020 at 14:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 15:09
It's an almost impossible call. Call the season null and void and it is grossly unfair on the team at the top (in this case Falcons) and disproportionately 'fair' to the team at the bottom (YC). So, what other choices are there?...Possibly delay the end of this season and the start of next? What does that then mean for contracts and players changing clubs?
This has to be the only option. Islander is right, the real problems lay below the Championship. Some seriously bitter pills there.
Football I know, but Jersey Bulls had won 100% of their games this season and the weekend before everything stopped they had secured promotion. They have now been told that the season is null & void!!...ouch!   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dropout22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 15:10
Originally posted by hrplaneman hrplaneman wrote:

Leeds website is showing an interview with Phil Davies saying they have been relegated and that next season they will be playing under a new name. Wonder what happens academy wise? 

Academy is not run by them anymore - renamed the Yorkshire rugby academy, basically as a representative of the catchment area. Believe Leeds Beckett are taking it over from what I heard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dunc999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 15:26
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