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backrowb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 19:38
Originally posted by Full Bodied Red Full Bodied Red wrote:

Maybe the RFU or England Rugby will follow Scotland RFU? Cancel all upcoming games and set up a hardship fund for clubs in trouble having lost income from their remaining home games. 
 good one.. 
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Thatbloke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 19:44
Courgeoust - God knows how you pronounce that and I've probably spelt it wrong aswell!?!?! 
I'm afraid your suggestion for deciding final league positions is fraught with inaccuracies and unfairness, as is another suggestion elsewhere that all remaining games are registered as 0-0 draws and see where that gets us
Surely if we have to apply some arbitrary way of "forecasting" what results might have been then surely there should be some weighting in favour of the form teams rather than those who started well back in September/October
As an example
North Prem - Billingham won their first 13 games but have only won 3 of their last 8  - they are currently 4th some 10 points behind the leaders albeit with a game in hand. If your criteria were applied they would take the title - does that seem fair or indeed likely?
Mids Prem - Newport (my club admittedly) currently 3rd, 4 points behind Sheffield in 2nd with a game in hand. We've won every game since our last loss in the middle of December including the only defeat of champions Bournville (whereas Sheffield have lost 3 of their last 6) but would clinch 2nd ahead of Newport if your criteria were applied - is that fair or likely?
I'm sure there are similar instances across the leagues
I appreciate your efforts in putting forward a possible solution but I fear it is neither practical or fair - having said that I have no idea at this stage how it could be done in a more analytical way where probabilities come into play rather that historical results going back to the early season
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Courgeoust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 23:00
Hi Thatbloke,
Well done you have spelt it correct - though there is also another spellling - Courgeoût- it is pronounced (cor - jus) it is a small and delightful hamlet close to Mortagne Au Perche in Normandy - anyway I digress.
My proposal was based on what has actually happened between the two sides not an arbitrary hypothetical outcome,there are all sorts of reasons why teams can be “in form” players returning from injury,or becoming injured, playing surfaces could suit certain teams,new players etc etc.
Apparently according to today’s Rugby Paper - there are provisions within the RFU laws that a “pools panel” would determine the outcome of results based on previous matches - whether this takes into account current form I am unsure,
Whatever is decided will be fraught with difficulty that’s for sure !


Edited by Courgeoust - 15 Mar 2020 at 23:01
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Albert Fishwick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 06:21
And, no doubt, a feeding frenzy for the lawyers.
That's easy for you to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DICKON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 06:38
There is another solution, not so fraught with lawyers and that would negate the need for Play Offs, and that wld be to bring forward the implementation of the ACR recommendations. At a stroke, this wld promote the top few clubs at each level, and protect those who have had tougher seasons. I have my reservations about the reasons for the re-org, but if one has to happen, this may be a sensible route out of a no win situation for the RFU. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote @boatyjames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 07:41
Originally posted by DICKON DICKON wrote:

There is another solution, not so fraught with lawyers and that would negate the need for Play Offs, and that wld be to bring forward the implementation of the ACR recommendations. At a stroke, this wld promote the top few clubs at each level, and protect those who have had tougher seasons. I have my reservations about the reasons for the re-org, but if one has to happen, this may be a sensible route out of a no win situation for the RFU. 

Decent idea Dickon - us teams who can still get into the top 2 if we win all our games will otherwise feel a bit miffed (though it is what it is I guess).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 08:58
I am not sure that helps - it merely moves the points at which decisions need to be made. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DICKON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 09:04
Can you build on that comment Camquin? Which decisions and which points?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote French Connection Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 10:24
My guess would be that they'll do as here in France - season finished, null and void. Start again in the autumn (hoipefully). It's the simplest, easiest and will lead to fewer complaints from clubs that are quite rightly hard done by. It'll just mean business as usual - absolutely everyone will hate the RFU, rather than just a few who may actually have a point. That's not necessarily my view - just what I think will happen.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 10:52
Say you reduce National 1 to 14 teams (if that is the agreed solution).
You still need one team up from ational 2 N and S - Caldy obviously, but which side from South.There are four within six points with five games to go.

And now you need to demote 4 sides. OK that one is pretty clear cut as Mose are 17 points behind Stortford who hae a game in hand.

I think they went for three of four National 2 diisons - so some sides will be promoted. There will be cut offs in each of the Premier leages and they will be being decided by the odd point.

If you declare the season  null and void - then the Championship get another season of beating Yorkshire. Given their playing budget is alledgedly just the £600k they were getting from the RFU, cutting that in half is going to hurt them proportionally more than the other Championship sides. So I suspect the mismatches will be even bigger.

And Caldy deserve to be promoted as they are unbeaten.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 10:58
FC whilst i do not think you are wrong, over here we have a very different situation to that in France. Saracens are down already, no-one will argue Newcastle should not go up. Would the RFU dare allow YC to stay in the Championship getting another £400k to waste-i cannot see that happening. If not clear at top of Nat 1 promote Richmond , Park, and Chinnor  (Rams do not really want promotion) turn Champ into league of 14 with 26 meaningful league matches and get rid of the useless Champ Cup comp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 12:15
My understanding (based upon a conversation with our fixture secretary over the weekend) is that RFU regs state that games not played will be recorded as 0-0 (like the games that didn't happen in the World Cup).  However, if the games would have an impact on promotion or relegation then the results would be determined by a 'pools panel'.  How they determine which games definitely would have an impact on promotion and relegation is unclear, given that for a team fighting to get out of the bottom two every game has a potential impact.

As for play-offs - would it be unfair to scrap them for one season, so an extra team at the higher level is saved?  I'm sure the two teams likely to finish second in the lower league would have issues, but if the league season isn't going to be concluded I'm not sure how you can justify any further fixtures between teams who may not have actually earned the right to make the play-offs (without wishing to offend any club currently battling for the top two!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 12:33
From where I am looking at it, promotion from Championship and relegation from AP already decided. Relegation from Championship already decided. 2 relegation places in Nat 1 already confirmed. N2N promotion place confirmed. So from that I guess it’s only games in Nat 1 involving Richmond and RP to decide promotion issues and at the bottom games involving Rotherham and Moseley become key although if you bin the Nat 2 playoff then it’s only the top of N2S that are required. There are lots of reorganising scenarios that could come into play. There are also a couple of clubs on the brink so those could also affect any possible outcome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donnyladinsheffield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 12:43
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

FC whilst i do not think you are wrong, over here we have a very different situation to that in France. Saracens are down already, no-one will argue Newcastle should not go up. Would the RFU dare allow YC to stay in the Championship getting another £400k to waste-i cannot see that happening. If not clear at top of Nat 1 promote Richmond , Park, and Chinnor  (Rams do not really want promotion) turn Champ into league of 14 with 26 meaningful league matches and get rid of the useless Champ Cup comp.


Are Saracens down already? I thought the reason for the additional points dedection was to make sure they fnished bottom as the 'accepted relegation' was deemed not to be within the rules.  If season abandoned rhen Saracens (and Leeds) potentially stay up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tyke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 12:51
As a result of the foot & mouth epidemic of 2001, the RFU developed a formula for use in circumstances where the season cannot be completed normally. presumably they will be dusting that off as we speak.
If only Webb-Ellis hadn't given them the ball back!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 13:07
Originally posted by Tyke Tyke wrote:

As a result of the foot & mouth epidemic of 2001, the RFU developed a formula for use in circumstances where the season cannot be completed normally. presumably they will be dusting that off as we speak.


I am sure the senile old g*ts have forgotten that so will thank you for the timely reminder
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backrowb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 18:37
All rugby suspended until April 15th
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoo The Zoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 18:50
Where has this advice come from? No official announcement as far as I can see.
All these ideas and theory's are like the national news spreading unnecessary "false news" lets wait and see what the RFU decide before reacting. Bearing in mind the RFU's record this may be after any threat has gone.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 18:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 19:06
Does this RFU announcement mean "all rugby" or just the rugby they're really bothered about?? 
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