National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > National League 2
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Consistency Players and Officials
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Consistency Players and Officials

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
omnes Paviores View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: West of Hull
Status: Offline
Points: 108
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnes Paviores Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Consistency Players and Officials
    Posted: 12 Sep 2021 at 18:59
I notice that posters on this forum and also reporters in The Rugby Papers are mentioning the usual criticism of match officials and their lack of consistency. A subject generally ignited by Directors of Rugby and Coaches. Why do people not think that a game is a good one when all parties from the touchline, the Officials and Players show consistency. Officials can make errors in decisions but Dor's, Coaches and Players rarely make the headlines about their inconsistency.

Last week I attended the Hull v Luctonians game. The Hull report read that the game did not take shape for the first 30 minutes. It states that in that time Luctonians missed their opportunities by not making use of the numerous penalties given away by Hull. 

Then you turn to today's Rugby Paper and the Stourbridge report where the last 3 paragraphs just talk about Hull giving away 4 penalties in the final minutes which allowed Stourbridge to take the game by a narrow margin.

The loss gave Gary Pearce the Hull DOR the chance to state that the penalty count against them was absolutely ridiculous and the referee  gave Stourbridge 4 chances to win the game and he was disappointed with that (not his side giving away penalties). He states all he wants is consistency.

Gary for two weeks you have received consistency from your players. They have given away penalties. For two weeks the referees of each of those games have shown consistency by awarding penalties for infringements.

Look at your performance as a coach and look at the performance of your players. I wonder if you only have one poster on changing room door with one bold word printed on the poster.  Consistency
Maybe the players have misunderstood the poster.

The Football Association would be looking at comments made about Officials and considering reprimand will the RFU do same


Back to Top
Even Older Hooker View Drop Down
Academy player
Academy player
Avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2020
Location: Horsham
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Even Older Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2021 at 19:37
You have opened a box of complaints. Referees and their officials ignore crooked feeds into scrums wonky Lines  outs, hookers in field when they throw  in. Players in font of the ball in drop outs.  What do you expect from Refs who have probably not played rugby at any decent level . The demands of the schedule is so demanding for refs to officiate let alone be good. It is what it is. I do not like it but that is life.
I had many questions about the decisions of the ref at Worthing. Slow resets yaaaawn and silly yellow cards at the end. But we won !!


Another one against the head
Back to Top
Sid James View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1355
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2021 at 23:13
 "the referee gave Stourbridge 4 chances to win the game"
'gave' - sounds like another DoR who prefers to come up with a contrived conspiracy theory rather than pay attention to his own teams consistent indiscipline. 
All Knwoing All Seeing
Back to Top
backrowb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Location: Gods own county
Status: Offline
Points: 1477
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 09:21
On Saturday I witnessed a 90 degree attempt at a tackle that ended up as a violent swinging arm to the head in open player and a player being concussed - A yellow card was given.  Losing 3 points is one thing, losing players is another.
Back to Top
Redted View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 982
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 16:13
Read the Camborne report about their game against Royal Wooton Bassett, Camborne only lost due to mistakes by the officials. 
Back to Top
Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2855
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 16:20
While officials decisions may influence the result, it’s ultimately the players that give them the opportunity. 
So many Christians not enough Lions
Back to Top
Elijah Cadman View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elijah Cadman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 16:22
O how I have missed the Nat2 board,with its compliments about officials. 

Referees work very hard to improve their accuracy, and game awareness.  On review they also review each penalty for accuracy and whether or not they needed to be given etc. 

Yes they will make errors and yes they will also be unsighted at times.  On the whole their accuracy is much higher than many players.  DoRs should assess why their players are giving away penalties, after all if they didnt concede them they wouldnt need to be penalised would they?

Communication is also vital.  Provided players know why the pen has been given they they should alter and or amend their behaviours accordingly.  I do think however that the vantage points on the sidelines are often not ideally placed 30-40m away from the play when the referee is only 2-3metres?  Just a thought.


Back to Top
Elijah Cadman View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elijah Cadman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 16:22
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

While officials decisions may influence the result, it’s ultimately the players that give them the opportunity. 

Clap
Back to Top
Even Older Hooker View Drop Down
Academy player
Academy player
Avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2020
Location: Horsham
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Even Older Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 16:54
If Refs are so good why the hell can they not see a crooked feed into the scrum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Another one against the head
Back to Top
omnes Paviores View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: West of Hull
Status: Offline
Points: 108
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnes Paviores Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 17:48
As I started this post I might as well chuck another couple of logs on the fire.

Elijah is perfectly correct in so much as the players might be better off listening to the reason why they have been penalised. They should then correct their wrong ways.

People on the touch line don't always see the offence from the correct angle and therefore miss the real offence.

Not straight in the scrum. Come on let's get the game flowing again we don't want to watch just the grunt and groan of the forwards let us see some flow from the backs although they could easily drop the odd pass and bring the whistle into play again

Then of course there are the DOR's who stand behind the posts berating the officials. What can they see from there, they can never coach players to avoid giving away penalties from that angle. The DOR named in my original posting is one of those DOR's operating from behind the sticks. I bet in his international playing days his coach never took up that position.

The DOR in question did take up the whistle for a short spell but he was often caught out behind play but became a good guesser. I think he might have stuck at being the man in the middle if he had been coached by Elijah and listened to ElijahLOLLOL
Back to Top
Halliford View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 19:58
A few points from me:

1. When I coached I asked my players to push the limits to see what they could get away with. Opensides push the offside line, backs push the offside line, forwards try to jump early in line-outs, etc. In many areas of the laws it is the referee's interpretation that enables them to apply the laws of the game.

2. At all home matches I have the benefit of listening to the ref mike, as a result I have always heard why a penalty is given and can then understand clearly what the referee has decided and why. Rarely do I disagree.

3. On the other hand, referees need to be more definitive in using the agreed signals for offences. Look at Owens, Barnes, et al and their decisions are clearly explained by their signals.

4. Referees are more concerned with safety than applying some laws due to directives from above. Feeding the ball in the scrum reduces the chances of the scrum collapsing because one or either hookers are on only one leg and thus potentially destabilising the scrum.

5. Scrums and Line-outs are methods for restarting play, how strict do we want to be on technicalities?
Back to Top
Even Older Hooker View Drop Down
Academy player
Academy player
Avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2020
Location: Horsham
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Even Older Hooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 20:53
Sorry Haliford, In all my Days from 66 to 92 as a Hooker in club rugby I had props who could stay on their feet if I was only on one. At all levels they trained as props firstly not bulldozers.  Peter Wheeler Et al were great hookers because they had great Props and refs who understood the role of the scrum in the gameThumbs Up
Another one against the head
Back to Top
tigerburnie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 1884
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 22:01
Originally posted by omnes Paviores omnes Paviores wrote:

As I started this post I might as well chuck another couple of logs on the fire.



Not straight in the scrum. Come on let's get the game flowing again we don't want to watch just the grunt and groan of the forwards let us see some flow from the backs although they could easily drop the odd pass and bring the whistle into play again




I was nearly with you until this crass statement, the scrum is not a means of restarting a game for girls to run around dropping the ball. It used to be a contest, a ball taken against the head was something knowledgeable crowds used to applaud. The game went to the dogs when too many backs were allowed to have an opinion.............................................(I might be joking, but then again I just might not.........)
Back to Top
Elijah Cadman View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elijah Cadman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 16:28
Originally posted by omnes Paviores omnes Paviores wrote:

As I started this post I might as well chuck another couple of logs on the fire.

Elijah is perfectly correct in so much as the players might be better off listening to the reason why they have been penalised. They should then correct their wrong ways.

People on the touch line don't always see the offence from the correct angle and therefore miss the real offence.

Not straight in the scrum. Come on let's get the game flowing again we don't want to watch just the grunt and groan of the forwards let us see some flow from the backs although they could easily drop the odd pass and bring the whistle into play again

Then of course there are the DOR's who stand behind the posts berating the officials. What can they see from there, they can never coach players to avoid giving away penalties from that angle. The DOR named in my original posting is one of those DOR's operating from behind the sticks. I bet in his international playing days his coach never took up that position.

The DOR in question did take up the whistle for a short spell but he was often caught out behind play but became a good guesser. I think he might have stuck at being the man in the middle if he had been coached by Elijah and listened to ElijahLOLLOL

O Ive missed all my educated friend :) We all stil love the fun of the game :) 
Back to Top
omnes Paviores View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: West of Hull
Status: Offline
Points: 108
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnes Paviores Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 22:15
Hope you are well Elijah, fingers crossed we will meet up this season at sometime.

I will be routed to games in Yorkshire for the foreseeable. I am in recovery from Surgery and having to keep my travels fairly local

I was persuaded to make this post by a reformed poster who know has two eyes. The first still to his club and the second more towards the game as a whole
Back to Top
Elijah Cadman View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elijah Cadman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 15:50
Originally posted by omnes Paviores omnes Paviores wrote:

Hope you are well Elijah, fingers crossed we will meet up this season at sometime.

I will be routed to games in Yorkshire for the foreseeable. I am in recovery from Surgery and having to keep my travels fairly local

I was persuaded to make this post by a reformed poster who know has two eyes. The first still to his club and the second more towards the game as a whole

It would be good to get to some of the real clubs, although I must confess to being somewhat concerned as to the perilous position so many find themselves in.  In the mean time I will continue swanning around the high echelons where of course everything is so secure! WinkWink
Back to Top
Sid James View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1355
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 18:44
I believe that this thread was started following The Rugby Paper report  on the Stourbridge v Hull match last weekend and in particular, the comments from the Hull DoR regarding the number of penalties given against his players and, his suggestion that the ref was wrong to do so.

It is therefore refreshing to read that one of the Hull players believes that they,  as players, must be more disiplined and, that 10 penalties in the first half alone, puts pressure on the team.
Maybe he should have a chat with his DoR who seems to be less aware of the possible source of the problem.
All Knwoing All Seeing
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.