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Championship clubs in shock over RFU’s decision

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Whistle watcher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whistle watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 09:40
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

I was told at a Tynedale match earlier this season they had no ARs as there were none available within the expenses cap area so the ref took along his father and a friend to ensure he had at least touch judges

It is true, though it should be said that the two pewople "roped in" were at least qualified referees at local level and not just a couple of passers by.  Expenses had nothing to do with it either, there simply weren't enough people available.


Edited by Whistle watcher - 23 Feb 2020 at 09:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trailfinder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 10:02
Sounds like there is a split in the views of the Championship clubs if they are not responding to the RFU with one voice...

I saw this quote at the end of an article about the knock on impact to League clubs, completely unsubstantiated but does tie back to some comments made last year:

There is speculation that Ealing and London Scottish are considering leaving the Championship for the multinational Pro-14 instead.

So far Ealing have remained virtually silent on the funding cuts, admittedly they are probably the least impacted but it's interesting none the less.

However the article then goes on to say the following which is just not going to happen:

What price Ealing deciding to partner the Broncos in a bid to reach Super League and pulling up a seat around at least one of rugby’s top tables?




Edited by Trailfinder - 23 Feb 2020 at 10:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 10:27
Originally posted by BP BP wrote:

QI We went through the teams from the Prem games last weekend. There were 10 ex Nottingham players within their ranks.
Assuming other Champ teams have players in there, not too bad for a league not producing prem players

The Jersey Reds 'Graduates' XXIII - details HERE - includes 14 players playing regularly in the Prem, 2 current Pro14 players, a French Top 14 player, 3 in the Championship (including 2 likely to be promoted with Falcons), 1 who's gone semi-pro and moved to Rosslyn Park + 1 who's just left his Prem club to move to Super Rugby in his native Oz.

Bedford, meanwhile, have more than 50 players who've moved up to the top tier, enough for two 'dream-team' squads - HERE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 10:27
Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

Sounds like there is a split in the views of the Championship clubs if they are not responding to the RFU with one voice...

I saw this quote at the end of an article about the knock on impact to League clubs, completely unsubstantiated but does tie back to some comments made earlier in the year:

There is speculation that Ealing and London Scottish are considering leaving the Championship for the multinational Pro-14 instead.

So far Ealing have remained virtually silent on the funding cuts, admittedly they are probably the least impacted but it's interesting none the less.

The article then goes on to say the following which is just not going to happen:

What price Ealing deciding to partner the Broncos in a bid to reach Super League and pulling up a seat around at least one of rugby’s top tables?



The Pro 14 would be a good fit for The Pirates, with our Celtic heritage games against Irish, Welsh and Scottish teams would be a proper job!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 10:37
Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

Sounds like there is a split in the views of the Championship clubs if they are not responding to the RFU with one voice...

I saw this quote at the end of an article about the knock on impact to League clubs, completely unsubstantiated but does tie back to some comments made earlier in the year:

There is speculation that Ealing and London Scottish are considering leaving the Championship for the multinational Pro-14 instead.

So far Ealing have remained virtually silent on the funding cuts, admittedly they are probably the least impacted but it's interesting none the less.

The article then goes on to say the following which is just not going to happen:

What price Ealing deciding to partner the Broncos in a bid to reach Super League and pulling up a seat around at least one of rugby’s top tables?



Yes, the silence from Ealing on this has been deafening. I do wonder if Mr. Gooley has continued his discussions with the pro14 following last year's ringfencing kerfluffle. Not a peep on social media or at Vallis Way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 10:40
Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

Sounds like there is a split in the views of the Championship clubs if they are not responding to the RFU with one voice...

I saw this quote at the end of an article about the knock on impact to League clubs, completely unsubstantiated but does tie back to some comments made earlier in the year:

There is speculation that Ealing and London Scottish are considering
leaving the Championship for the multinational Pro-14 instead
.

So far Ealing have remained virtually silent on the funding cuts,
admittedly they are probably the least impacted but it's interesting
none the less.

The article then goes on to say the following which is just not going to happen:

What
price Ealing deciding to partner the Broncos in a bid to reach Super
League and pulling up a seat around at least one of rugby’s top tables?





The Pro 14 would be a good fit for The Pirates, with our Celtic heritage games against Irish, Welsh and Scottish teams would be a proper job!

I remember similar talk some years ago when Mose were in Level 2. On the face of it, this sounded attractive to me then - given our history with Welsh matches being the 'big games'. I recall some major issue to do with the RFU being able to veto matches in their jurisdiction.....perhaps I'm getting confused with L Scottish being linked at one stage with being the 3rd Scottish club in Pro 14/15?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 18:39
Ellis Genge - Hartpury to Bristol
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 19:44
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by BP BP wrote:

QI We went through the teams from the Prem games last weekend. There were 10 ex Nottingham players within their ranks.
Assuming other Champ teams have players in there, not too bad for a league not producing prem players


The Jersey Reds 'Graduates' XXIII - details HERE - includes 14 players playing regularly in the Prem, 2 current Pro14 players, a French Top 14 player, 3 in the Championship (including 2 likely to be promoted with Falcons), 1 who's gone semi-pro and moved to Rosslyn Park + 1 who's just left his Prem club to move to Super Rugby in his native Oz.

Bedford, meanwhile, have more than 50 players who've moved up to the top tier, enough for two 'dream-team' squads - HERE


A proper Jersey squad too with 4 front rowers on the bench.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 20:43
4 props selected to reflect recent wet weather! We were a bit short in a couple of specialist positions although could have gone for Charlie Clare (10 games for us in 12/13 season)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlangentThrowback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 10:31
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Ellis Genge - Hartpury to Bristol

You could equally say Ellis Genge - Old Reds to Hartpury!

This idea that somehow Championship clubs are the exclusive breading ground for players who go on to the Premiership is a little odd.  Players move from the Premiership clubs to the Championship (and back again).  Players move from the Championship to the Premiership.  Players move from the National Leagues to the Championship and so on.  No league exclusively develops players.  Using Genge as an example he signed for Bristol at age 18.  Did Old Reds develop him?  Hartpury?  Or was it Bristol who converted him to prop?  Or Leicester or even England?

But I'm pleased to see that, as I suspected, the initial cut was just the opening gambit in a negotiation and we'll now see a much smaller reduction, presumably still phased in.  I hope this has prompted both the RFU and Championship to get together and finally sort out what they actually want the Championship to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 10:53
Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Ellis Genge - Hartpury to Bristol

You could equally say Ellis Genge - Old Reds to Hartpury!

This idea that somehow Championship clubs are the exclusive breading ground for players who go on to the Premiership is a little odd.  Players move from the Premiership clubs to the Championship (and back again).  Players move from the Championship to the Premiership.  Players move from the National Leagues to the Championship and so on.  No league exclusively develops players.  Using Genge as an example he signed for Bristol at age 18.  Did Old Reds develop him?  Hartpury?  Or was it Bristol who converted him to prop?  Or Leicester or even England?
All true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 13:15
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Ellis Genge - Hartpury to Bristol


You could equally say Ellis Genge - Old Reds to Hartpury!

This idea that somehow Championship clubs are the exclusive breading ground for players who go on to the Premiership is a little odd.  Players move from the Premiership clubs to the Championship (and back again).  Players move from the Championship to the Premiership.  Players move from the National Leagues to the Championship and so on.  No league exclusively develops players.  Using Genge as an example he signed for Bristol at age 18.  Did Old Reds develop him?  Hartpury?  Or was it Bristol who converted him to prop?  Or Leicester or even England?

All true.


The point is though without a strong 2nd tier then there is a lack of a decent stepping stone to bounce back to a Premiership squad or develop further to make it from a ND1. Decent players could be lost, as they can't prove themselves to get "2nd" chances. Each division plays its part but the Championship is most critical being the closest level to the Premiership for those late developers discarded or not picked up by an RFU funded academy.

Take Edwards - was at London Irish but dumped from the academy, went to Rosslyn Park, Blues, then back to Sale at 28 years of age and now in Bordeaux French Top 14.

Twelvetrees - deemed not good enough at Leicester. went to Blues, back to Leicester (with a bit of bouncing to Nottingham), before becoming an England international.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 13:33
Also where do referees learn to officiate.
All the top referees came up through Divisional panels and then Nat1 and the Championship games before being let loose on the Premiership.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 14:13
I thought Edwards was at Rosslyn Park.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 14:27
The Championship and lower leagues provide a fail safe to the Premiership. They allow them to test out players, have 'junior' clubs develop them, possibly to the detriment of their own club results and then pick up the improved player.

The interesting analysis for me is how many players do the Premiership clubs take direct from their academies and into their first team in actual meaningful Premiership games? I suggest it is lower than the Academy players they loan out to other clubs to develop as point 1. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 16:53
Players Donny helped along the way, not as many as other championship team.
I could have listed more Dr or loans but these players weren't with us long so only a Glenn Young as a 2 year loaner from Newcastle and Curtis Langdon One year DR

Exeter
Tomas Francis and Jack Yeandle
Quin's
Glenn Young
Wuss
Michael Heaney
Saints
Paul Hill and Piers Francis
Sale
Will Griff John and Curtis Langdon
Bristol
Will Hurrell, Lewis Thiede and Jake Armstrong



Edited by KnightsBoy - 24 Feb 2020 at 16:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 17:13
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

The Championship and lower leagues provide a fail safe to the Premiership. They allow them to test out players, have 'junior' clubs develop them, possibly to the detriment of their own club results and then pick up the improved player.

The interesting analysis for me is how many players do the Premiership clubs take direct from their academies and into their first team in actual meaningful Premiership games? I suggest it is lower than the Academy players they loan out to other clubs to develop as point 1. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cherub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 17:29
I apologise if the following link has already been posted:

https://bedfordrugby.co.uk/news/2020/02/open-letter-chairman-geoff-irvine-rfu

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 20:17
The Pro 14 would be a good fit for The Pirates, with our Celtic heritage games against Irish, Welsh and Scottish teams would be a proper job!

Zero funding from the RFU though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 22:09
Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Ellis Genge - Hartpury to Bristol

You could equally say Ellis Genge - Old Reds to Hartpury!

This idea that somehow Championship clubs are the exclusive breading ground for players who go on to the Premiership is a little odd.  Players move from the Premiership clubs to the Championship (and back again).  Players move from the Championship to the Premiership.  Players move from the National Leagues to the Championship and so on.  No league exclusively develops players.  Using Genge as an example he signed for Bristol at age 18.  Did Old Reds develop him?  Hartpury?  Or was it Bristol who converted him to prop?  Or Leicester or even England?

But I'm pleased to see that, as I suspected, the initial cut was just the opening gambit in a negotiation and we'll now see a much smaller reduction, presumably still phased in.  I hope this has prompted both the RFU and Championship to get together and finally sort out what they actually want the Championship to be.

It is an odd idea, one that I haven't heard advanced at any point so far. Who was it said this PT?
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