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Bees Collapse?

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kingsheathlad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 20:44
Originally posted by Fudgepacker Fudgepacker wrote:

Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Who is currently in the Greater Birmingham Merit League.




Thanks for that info.That is is a big drop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 22:03
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Originally posted by Fudgepacker Fudgepacker wrote:

Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Who is currently in the Greater Birmingham Merit League.




Thanks for that info.That is is a big drop.

It includes the second team of our amateur arm. Just saying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 23:04
A very amateur arm. Their website says you are still in the Champ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 11:43
All the amateur clubs who manage to ply their trade at level 5 including my own must be somewhat bemused by all this. Why don't Bees just aim to put out the best team they can and let the results decide? 

Am I missing something or is this 'club' just the sum of its paid players?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 13:18
How could I friendly Prop, keep our place warm in Nat 2 North we want it back next year!!!!!LOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 13:31
Penda:
1. 'The Bees' simply do not currently have an adult side (inc. coach). The adult rugby side was indeed the sum of its paid players & coaches, all of whom have left. As regards 'the Bees' being a 'club', please see my posting on page 4 regarding 'the Bees' recent history & legal status. 
2. Player safety in particular (& also demoralisation), if a team can be assembled, is the reason for dropping out of the league structure. (In the case for example of Old Halesonians who, I think it fair to say, went through a similar process a few years ago, they had I believe a well-established second team to fall back on, 'the Bees' do not.)
 
 


Edited by Jez - 06 Jun 2019 at 13:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote One For The Ditch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 13:41
Originally posted by Jez Jez wrote:

Penda:
1. 'The Bees' simply do not currently have an adult side (inc. coach). The adult rugby side was indeed the sum of its paid players & coaches, all of whom have left. As regards 'the Bees' being a 'club', please see my posting on page 4 regarding 'the Bees' recent history & legal status. 
2. Player safety in particular (& also demoralisation), if a team can be assembled, is the reason for dropping out of the league structure. (In the case for example of Old Halesonians who, I think it fair to say, went through a similar process a few years ago, they had I believe a well-established second team to fall back on, 'the Bees' do not.)
 
 
Those clubs feeling the need to pay players should perhaps only pass over funds (other than travelling costs) on the Monday following a win i.e. "No Win = No Fee". Incentive compensation will allow the club to achieve value for money and mitigate being without a pot to urinate in if relegated.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 13:41
Where have all the players gone? Seems very poorly managed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 13:51
Mainly Bournville & Moseley.
I intend to contribute no further to discussions (unless I believe a particularly fundamental error has been made in a posting that needs correcting) as I believe that all that can be usefully said regarding 'the Bees' has been said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LockNLoader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 13:53
Totally agree.

My club, Newbury which i'm sure a lot of the senior RM members will know suffered similar circumstances some time ago, nose dropping from the Championship all the way down to level 6. However, it was the best thing that could of happened to them. They played the best available team they could plug together, suffering some very heavy defeats along the way but find themselves off the back of one of their best seasons for some time, winning 25/26 games smashing a lot of records along the way with the same core group of boys who were fresh faced experiencing level 3 rugby at the ages of 17/18. 
Very rarely do you see such loyalty from a group, all very local who could have gone elsewhere for the money. 
Money is one thing but as an aspiring young rugby talent who would turn their nose up at an opportunity in the Bee's scenario to play at level 5 rugby?! It does baffle me sometimes. 
Late to the party on this one and subsequently the powers who be at the club have decided to drop out all together which is a great shame!    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bin Licker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 14:06
Shame for Bees always good entertainment but you did always wonder how sustainable it all was.
There will be a few other clubs worrying that have put their faith in imported mercenaries at the behest of one or two ego driven wealthy members who then as per Bees find they have no players and are losing volunteers to fall back on when the money inevitably dries up.
Clubs always think they can avoid the pit falls but the evidence is clear.
Hope Bourneville get value for money out of their investment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 18:44
Originally posted by LockNLoader LockNLoader wrote:

My club, Newbury,suffered similar circumstances some time ago, nose dropping from the Championship all the way down to level 6. However, it was the best thing that could of happened to them. They played the best available team they could plug together, suffering some very heavy defeats along the way..
Newbury took a battering on the way down with some very heavy lossses on that relegation nosedive. It wasn't Sugar Daddy money that dried up, it was Sponsorship money... and the semi-pros disappeared soon afterwards. Four succesive relegations and in the 2010/11 season the boys suffered the ignominy of having an article dedicated to them in The Rugby Paper titled "Is this the worst team in England?" just to rub salt in the wounds. Falling from Level 2 to Level 6 is quite different from the position Bees are in and you would have thought they would have young lads willing to step up, but if they aren't there they aren't there. One thing Newbury had at the time of the fall was a good Colts team who got through to the semi final of the National Cup to fall back on and those boys still form the core of the team to this day

Edited by Dobber - 07 Jun 2019 at 00:22
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Bill Sley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 06:15
Originally posted by Dobber Dobber wrote:

Originally posted by LockNLoader LockNLoader wrote:

My club, Newbury,suffered similar circumstances some time ago, nose dropping from the Championship all the way down to level 6. However, it was the best thing that could of happened to them. They played the best available team they could plug together, suffering some very heavy defeats along the way..
Newbury took a battering on the way down with some very heavy lossses on that relegation nosedive. It wasn't Sugar Daddy money that dried up, it was Sponsorship money... and the semi-pros disappeared soon afterwards. Four succesive relegations and in the 2010/11 season the boys suffered the ignominy of having an article dedicated to them in The Rugby Paper titled "Is this the worst team in England?" just to rub salt in the wounds. Falling from Level 2 to Level 6 is quite different from the position Bees are in and you would have thought they would have young lads willing to step up, but if they aren't there they aren't there. One thing Newbury had at the time of the fall was a good Colts team who got through to the semi final of the National Cup to fall back on and those boys still form the core of the team to this day
 

Lots of echoes from the past - same fate happened to Mose back when (2003 ish?). Lost most of the 1st team squad but a good Colts team stepped up to fulfil the fixtures..... resulting in inevitable heavy defeats at level 2 but the club survived. The key seems to be having either a good 2nd XV or junior players committed to the future of the club.....which it sounds like Bees didn't have. 

The exodus to Bournville (not sure how many players have/are coming to Mose....maybe to the amateur arm Moseley Oak in Midlands 2) might be as much connected with their new ground/facilities/location as much as anything else. https://www.pitchero.com/clubs/bournvillerfc 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bin Licker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 08:54
Agree with a lot of what you say Bill.
Bourneville are well placed to become major force in Bham with their facilities.
What I would say is that many clubs have neglected their 2s and colts in pursuit of the short term dream and will be in trouble when the dosh dries up.
As for players going to Bville they would play on a cow field if there was more money in it for them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote LockNLoader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 10:08
I recall it very well Dobber! Yes when Vodafone HQ pulled the plug you certainly saw what loyalty really was! 
And as you say, very fortunate that the Blues are well known for a very talented youth set up which to this day is still going strong seeing some of the crop of the colts from 10/11 now senior members of the team supporting some real special talent from the current crop of colts, who from what i hear a few are being lined up for dual reg with a level 3 team.
Given the numerous threads and the history around some great clubs collapsing, it does scream out for clubs to invest in their facilities, local talent, youth set up and looking after your squad as best as possible ultimately delivers sustainability and an attraction to remain at the club.
If players do eventually leave for the paid ranks then surely the club takes some pride in being a part of that players development and career in the process. 
I would much rather see that with my club than see another episode of yester-year!   
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kingsheathlad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 10:48
Originally posted by Jez Jez wrote:


Mainly Bournville & Moseley.
I intend to contribute no further to discussions (unless I believe a particularly fundamental error has been made in a posting that needs correcting) as I believe that all that can be usefully said regarding 'the Bees' has been said.


No news of players joining Moseley as yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 11:24
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Originally posted by Jez Jez wrote:


Mainly Bournville & Moseley.
I intend to contribute no further to discussions (unless I believe a particularly fundamental error has been made in a posting that needs correcting) as I believe that all that can be usefully said regarding 'the Bees' has been said.


No news of players joining Moseley as yet.

A couple of coaches, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S1ggers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 17:07
Afternoon all, our website (Bournville) and social media pages are all up to date regarding signings and resignings.

Last season our average age most weeks was between 21 and 24, we have been fortunate and picked up a few (five players) from Bees who will help bring the youngsters through.

For those questioning our strength and depth, last season we produced 3 teams weekly, on a couple of occasions we had a 4th team. We would very much like to make the 4th team a little more regular this season in addition to our Vets.

As for resources, we have a bank of 7 or 8 coaches who are there every Tuesday and Thursday and 2 coaches specifically working with the 2s (or “The Blues” as we call them) along with a physio and/or sports therapist.

This year we will have our first “home grown” crop of players that started in our mini and juniors (circa 400 in number) 12 years ago, who last season played Under 18s.

With the new ground and partnerships we have established the club is in a great place.

I hope that has answered some of the questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 22:36
Originally posted by Bill Sley Bill Sley wrote:

not sure how many players have/are coming to Mose....maybe to the amateur arm Moseley Oak in Midlands 2)
 
Well now you have your answer on the Moseley website Bill Sley; seven Bees players are going to the 'mighty' Mose (& not the cheating Oak as you so condescendingly suggested). With the two ex-Bees coaches perhaps your 'club' should be renamed Bees Moseley rather than Birmingham Moseley? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 05:38
Originally posted by Jez Jez wrote:

Originally posted by Bill Sley Bill Sley wrote:

not sure how many players have/are coming to Mose....maybe to the amateur arm Moseley Oak in Midlands 2)
 
Well now you have your answer on the Moseley website Bill Sley; seven Bees players are going to the 'mighty' Mose (& not the cheating Oak as you so condescendingly suggested). With the two ex-Bees coaches perhaps your 'club' should be renamed Bees Moseley rather than Birmingham Moseley? 
 
Wasn't intended to be condescending Jez simply that Oak & Bees were closer in the league pyramid than Bees & Mose...…….. if it was going to be a mass movement of a squad. 

As it has turned out, it's a (presumably) selective half dozen. I've only seen a couple of those listed as joining but Jolly is a decent 10 so imagine the others are of a similar calibre. Can't see why we'd wish to change our name as it would appear they were unemployed/released when recruited....but they're very welcome. 


Edited by Bill Sley - 19 Jun 2019 at 07:23
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