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B & I - Whats it good for?

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southerngit View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Apr 2018 at 18:29
Watched a cracking game between Leinster and Saracens on Sunday. 

Took be back two years to January 2016 when a good Titans team played Leinster A away and lost 43-24 to a young side which included among others Rory O'Loughlin, Nick McCarthy, James Ryan, Dan Leavy, Andrew Porter and Joey Carbery. Thought they looked half decent then and even better on Sunday.

It petty obvious what the B & I has done for the Irish Provinces and their national team. Shame the RFU don't think it worthy of proper funding or that the Championship be used as a stepping stone for talent either!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2018 at 19:24
"The RFU already pay for you to go to Jersey every year and yet you want MORE money to play the Irish and Welsh regions to improve future Premiership stars?!"

So shocked, the RFU committee members drop their monocles into their gins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2018 at 20:54
Why should the RFU pay more money into the B&I when the Championship Clubs generally dismiss it as second rate? Briz are winning the Championship by a country mile but demonstrated their interest in the B&I by picking sides that didn't even make it out of the pool. I think they even described the team they fielded as something other than Bristol. Last season Jersey played Irish in the league at St Peter and then played a much changed team a short time later in the B&I. Credit to Wuss they won the league, play-offs and B&I but they have been the exception.  I've seen some brilliant rugby - like a master class by Tommy Bowe in Belfast , some incredible young talent in Wales in places like Llandovery and tasted some glorious Scotch in Ayr and Stout in Dublin & Cork (Jersey lost all those games but I regret none of them) -  When Championship Clubs treat cup competitions seriously the quality goes up and the money and crowds will follow.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2018 at 21:20
The irony is that IMHO the Championship clubs fielded their squad players in the B&I to keep their powder dry for the league. Generally clubs were either trying to gain a top 4 finish for a lucrative play off or avoid relegation. Now that they have scrapped the play offs they also get rid of a cup competition that the clubs would probably take more seriously.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2018 at 21:22
It should probably have a final at one of the national stadiums to increase its prestige. Between Level 7 with the Intermediate Cup and the Championship (barring County finals), there is no chance for clubs to get the opportunity to play on the big stage. If anything, they should make either the B&I Cup or Anglo-Welsh Cup a proper cup competition again with the lower national league clubs getting the chance to play the bigger boys of club rugby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 08:20
Why would clubs risk their main players in a cup competition that gives no reward worth talking about?

I do not blame Bristol et al who don't consider the cup worth chasing. As some have alluded to here and on other posts make the reward worthwhile and clubs will take the competition seriously - at present it is an insult and not worth risking your players if you don't have to. I would love to see the final as the under card to the Prem Final or some such other competition - as it is this is the end for the B&I.
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wing Commander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 12:26
English club winners who presumably did take the competition seriously:
2009/10 - Cornish Pirates
10/11 - Bristol
14/15 - Worcester Warriors
15/16 - London Welsh
Runners up:
10/11 - Bedford Blues
12/13 - Newcastle Falcons
13/14 - Leeds Carnegie
14/15 - Doncaster Knights
15/16 - Yorkshire Carnegie
16/17 - Jersey Reds

In 9 years there have been a total of 10 English teams present in the final with only 6 non-English (Munster A =3, Cross Keys = 1 & Leinster A = 2) 

IMHO that looks like a success for the RFU and shouldn't be scrapped - but what do I know? :-)



Edited by Wing Commander - 03 Apr 2018 at 12:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cricks at 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 14:30
Well the quarter final against Ulster entertained 2323 at GR and stuck (not budgeted) £50K+ in the club bank account. We have the good possibility of a competing in a final, so from the Blues perspective what’s not to like? You just have to want it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 15:25
Sadly Cricks, I think for the Semi Finals and Finals all money above costs goes to the RFU so whoever is hosting needs to be inventive with their book keeping. And good luck.
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 15:56
Interesting

For pool stages and quarter final

Quote Home Club will be entitled to retain the gate receipts, vending receipts, food, beverage and hospitality receipts, programme and advertising receipts and any other income

For semi final and final

Quote ticket sales and hospitality sales, programme sales and car parking at the semi-finals and final stages is owned by and will be paid to (or retained by) the RFU.

But presumably the hosting club does get to keep vending, food, beverage and advertising receipts and any other income as they are not included in the monies retained by the RFU.

Note
Quote
The RFU will ... pay the net receipts from the Competition to the participating teams. 

So if there were TV or sponsorship income, it would be distributed, but as there isn't that would just be the money retained from the semi-finals and final.







Edited by Camquin - 03 Apr 2018 at 15:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cricks at 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 17:02
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Sadly Cricks, I think for the Semi Finals and Finals all money above costs goes to the RFU so whoever is hosting needs to be inventive with their book keeping. And good luck.
Thanks CPK, seems harsh, but there you go. Hope things are gradually returning to (somewhere near) normal up there? Looking forward to cow pie and a tasty match next season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 13:16
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 22:29
Read TRP today, sounds like the RFU still doesn't have a plan around what to replace the B&I with, though a few clubs in the Championship are pushing for an FA cup style tournament. Funny that, as my Ealing season ticket for next year includes B&I cup games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 01:41
Do the clubs pushing for a cup have a source of funds to make it worthwhile for clubs to enter - or is it more castles in spain.

Unless you bring about £2m the National League club treasurers are  likely to tell you some awkard truths.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 07:36
Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Read TRP today, sounds like the RFU still doesn't have a plan around what to replace the B&I with, though a few clubs in the Championship are pushing for an FA cup style tournament. Funny that, as my Ealing season ticket for next year includes B&I cup games.

Excellent idea. Bring back the RFU Club Competition (which should never have become the Anglo-Welsh Cup anyway) to give a chance for the lower league clubs to test themselves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 10:54
Originally posted by Cricks at 2 Cricks at 2 wrote:

Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Sadly Cricks, I think for the Semi Finals and Finals all money above costs goes to the RFU so whoever is hosting needs to be inventive with their book keeping. And good luck.
Thanks CPK, seems harsh, but there you go. Hope things are gradually returning to (somewhere near) normal up there? Looking forward to cow pie and a tasty match next season.

So on this basis, the RFU's preferred choice of venue for the final would probably be Bedford, followed by Jersey, then it would be a coin toss between Ealing and Leinster. I would guess that they would go for Ealing following a crowd of under 1,000 last year in Munster.
So, actually, the seedings mean nothing at this stage of the tournament apart from who plays at home for the quarter and semi final.
I can't see them playing the final at HQ, there would be an even smaller crowd then at a club ground, unless they added the game to the play off finals in the lower leagues (if they still have them).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 11:12
I suspect you are right Brizzer. Financial matters are covered in paragraph 13 of the regulations:
The final will surely be at one of the semi-final winners grounds and if Bedford beat Ealing imo they would be strong favourites to host the final. 
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 12:21
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

I suspect you are right Brizzer. Financial matters are covered in paragraph 13 of the regulations:
The final will surely be at one of the semi-final winners grounds and if Bedford beat Ealing imo they would be strong favourites to host the final. 

Hospitality sales? Does that mean that they receive the profits from our members and club sponsors having lunch before the semi final (and final if we were to get there)?....seems a bit harsh if my understanding is correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 13:48
Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

I suspect you are right Brizzer. Financial matters are covered in paragraph 13 of the regulations:
The final will surely be at one of the semi-final winners grounds and if Bedford beat Ealing imo they would be strong favourites to host the final. 

Hospitality sales? Does that mean that they receive the profits from our members and club sponsors having lunch before the semi final (and final if we were to get there)?....seems a bit harsh if my understanding is correct.
I read it that way Brizzer but the poor RFU have to raise money somehow. Interestingly the advance tickets for the match down South at St Peter are £10.84 including a booking fee which is a lot less than for a normal league match and compares favourably with the Ealing v Bedford match which is £16.50 including a booking fee. I assume hospitality includes bar takings but the RFU should do well if Sean sells out the upstairs club class tables of 10 at £850. The supporters marquee lunch seems like a good deal at £10 a head. It would be great to have a bumper partisan local crowd behind the team on Saturday and if the RFU get the beer money that's fine by me. I bet there is a cracking crowd following the Blues at Vallis Way.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trailfinder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 14:37
I'm really looking forward to the semi against Bedford on Saturday, I think it really is too close to call between two great sides. Should make for a great spectacle in the sunshine at Vallis Way!

We've bemoaned the loss of the playoffs but knockout rugby still has a place especially at the tail end of the season. It's a shame the Welsh and Irish sides are not participating next year. I hope that the Premiership clubs can be convinced to enter sides be it A teams or weakened 'Anglo Welsh' teams.
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