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Alun Wyn Jones

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Sid James View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 10:33
Alun Wyn Jones - Great player, great captain and leader, must be one of the best 2nd rows to play for Wales & the Lions.
However, is it me or is Alun becoming a bit of a sad old moaner? I ask for 2 reasons:
 
a) I know Alun is the Captain but, after every single decision the ref makes the ref has to explain himself to Alun. Once the ref has satisfied Alun for the umpteenth time, or not, Alun walks backwards with that look of disbelief on his face or, with that smile that says I am tired of your incompetence but I will live with it. He must add 10mins to the game with his persistent enquiries to the ref.
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b) IMO, Alun appears to have really let himself down with his complaints about a 'tweak' from Joe Marler. The whole situation is now out of hand, courtesy of the media (whats new!) but it was 'grumpy' Alun who has deliberately fuelled the situation. Alun's inability to accept a playful 'tweak' (and it was a tweak rather than the much reported 'grab') may now cost Marler the rest of his season. I just hope Alun is happy with that and doesn't want Marler dragging through the streets and pilloried. Would we have seen the same fuss if Wales had won? I think not.
 
p.s. Gareth Thomas's comment on the matter was 'priceless'. Thankfully, we still have a Wales captain with a sense of humour.
 


Edited by Sid James - 10 Mar 2020 at 10:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GreenThrough&Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 11:36
In response to your points:

a. I agree though it's not just him that does it. IMO, the referees stance should be:

"If you don't understand my decision then the captain and/or the penalised player can politely ask me to explain why i've given it. If you don't like the explanation, or don't like the decision, then tough; i'm the referee and i'll call what i see".

b. Whilst it was funny, Marler should and likely will get a ban. Reason being that there will have been thousands of kids who've watched it and without a ban, could see this as acceptable behaviour. As a coach in a junior setup, i don't want to spend my time having to discipline kids for inappropriate contact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 12:05
Originally posted by GreenThrough&Through GreenThrough&Through wrote:

In response to your points:

a. I agree though it's not just him that does it. IMO, the referees stance should be:

"If you don't understand my decision then the captain and/or the penalised player can politely ask me to explain why i've given it. If you don't like the explanation, or don't like the decision, then tough; i'm the referee and i'll call what i see".

b. Whilst it was funny, Marler should and likely will get a ban. Reason being that there will have been thousands of kids who've watched it and without a ban, could see this as acceptable behaviour. As a coach in a junior setup, i don't want to spend my time having to discipline kids for inappropriate contact.
 
GTT,
I agree with a) but with regard to b) lets be fair, the kids would have had no idea of what had happened had Jones and the media not brought it to the attention of everyone. Which is the point I was making.
It is the easy way out, to hide behind the rules, point to the Kids and take the moral high ground.
Can we not just explain it away as incorrect but naughty/silly/playful banter which I doubt would Lovely anyone's juniors.
Do we need to provide a telephone number with the TV highlights, just in case anyone is effected by the contents of the match?  
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GreenThrough&Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 12:26
I know where you're coming from and it has been blown up in the media, unfortunately it's the world we live in.

There is a fine line between 'banter'/craic/gentle wind-up (whatever word you choose to use) and unacceptable behaviour.

Personally, i don't think i'd be happy with another player copping hold of my bits, no matter how subtlety or innocent/playful they thought they were being.

Ideally, yes, as a parent you'd explain to your child that it's not the done thing and not to copy it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 13:00
I have a different view on this.

In years gone by JM would have had a deserved smack round the face and that would have been the end of it.

These days if AWJ had done that he would be sent off and put his team at a disadvantage, also potentially would have led to a bigger fracas and become even more serious for Marler.

Worse things happen on a rugby pitch...but it was an unbelievably stupid thing to do in such a high profile game.

I fully agree on the constant appealing. Whatever happened to matching teams back 10 metres??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 13:12
I'm not sure how I feel about the Marler incident.  I'm certainly not in the sexual assault/ #metoo/ throw-away-the-key camp, and I'm not even sure that he should be charged with 'grabbing, twisting or squeezing' as it was more of a fondle.  Never thought I'd type any of those words on an internet forum.  Not this one, anyway...

But I can see that Marler thought he was being funny, although I can also see why AWJ wasn't amused by the incident.  Even in his press conference afterwards, he really didn't seem to know how to explain what had happened - he was still completely bemused by it two hours later - and I find it strange that he's getting grief for that.  If one of my mates walked into the pub and rubbed my crotch as a form of greeting I think I'd find that completely bizarre behaviour, so why Marler thinks it's acceptable in front of a TV audience of millions is beyond me.

Maybe the Six Nations should be behind a paywall after all so our children can't be exposed to this filth Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GreenThrough&Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 14:09
To clarify, im not in the throw-away-the-key-camp either. Whilst it was funny, and that was probably Marlers intention, it can't go unpunished.

Doing so is effectively a green light to other players (at all levels) to try the same. God help the referees if that were to happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 14:39
It's OK GT&T, I wasn't referring to you specifically - but some of the comments I've seen on social media and in the comments sections of various news sites have been bordering on hysteria.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 16:45
I agree MW-J, it was a bizarre thing to do. Silly but not malicious.
I too want to avoid the hysteria that follows the media latching on to anything these days, which is why I feel that had Jones simply dismissed the incident and Marler as ridiculous, the media would have had nowhere to go with it.

But, Jones did not dismiss it and we are now faced with mountains of unecessary scrutiny by the press, Disciplinary Committees and everyone jumping on the moral high ground. What a waste of everyone's time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 16:59
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

But, Jones did not dismiss it and we are now faced with mountains of unnecessary scrutiny by the press, Disciplinary Committees and everyone jumping on the moral high ground. What a waste of everyone's time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 17:11
If you did that in any other context you'd be in real trouble. In certain contexts you might get knifed. It was deliberate and being over 18, Marler deserves to take the consequences.
What would be the attitude in women's rugby if another player fondled someone's breasts? Hell to pay I would think. A rugby match is not a licence for Indecent Assault.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GWJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 17:31
Absolutely correct.  Whilst I am getting fed up with AWJ (and many others) continually harping on about decisions that go against them, what Marler did was inexcusable.  It wouldn't have mattered whether AWJ had kept quiet, the matter would have been picked up post-match and a citing was inevitable.

Marler has a history of acting like a tool and knew exactly what he was doing.  What's worse is that there was no need to do what he did.  He now has to accept the consequences which will probably be a ban or a fine at best.  And rather than be remembered as a decent prop, he'll probably be remembered as the player who fondled another player during a match.  If I had done that in my day job I would have been suspended immediately, disciplined (and probably sacked) and would most likely have to face a sexual assault charge in Court.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BP Youth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 17:46
I think I would rather have received Joe Marler's "assault" than that meted out by Mohamed Haouas. it will be interesting to see who receives the most severe punishment.
Gareth Thomas' re-action had it spot on, in my opinion
It's only a game
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 17:58
My old school in Cape Town has recently had a scandal in that an extremely attractive female schoolteacher has had at least four relationships with hunky 18 year old water polo players.
The reaction has ranged from 'lucky sods' to 'disgraceful' She's resigned and lost her career. 
Also a very foolish person.
The reactions to Marler's foolery show a similar variation, but he must know he plays with fire.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 18:01
It was the sort of thing you did in practice matches at school to wind your mates up. 
I think if Wales were in control of the game Jones might have laughed it off but at that stage a red or yellow card would have come in handy. 
They did play as team mates on the 2017 Lions Tour




Edited by tulip - 10 Mar 2020 at 18:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acro prop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 18:59
This all come to light with a question from a English reporter asking AWJ about the incident. His answer was dumbing down of the actual offence but more to do with the official’s missing it even calling Marlor a great guy. Maybe if it wasn’t mentioned we wouldn’t be having the over reaction in the media. Every post match interview AWJ has given i always thought his answers have been in the spirit of the game we all love.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GWJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 19:05
Originally posted by tulip tulip wrote:

It was the sort of thing you did in practice matches at school to wind your mates up. 
I think if Wales were in control of the game Jones might have laughed it off but at that stage a red or yellow card would have come in handy. 
They did play as team mates on the 2017 Lions Tour



But it wasn't in a practice match at school ... it was during a major international match played out in front of 80,000 people and with millions, including kids, watching on live TV.

To put it into context, a male pensioner ended up in our local Court recently having groped the female paramedic who had been called to assist him.  The pensioner thought he was having just a bit of fun and told her that 'you've got to have a laugh'.  He wasn't laughing when he ended up being convicted of sexual assault.  Whether Marler thought it was 'just a bit of bants' or not, he should have realised that there would be consequences to his action.  This could end very badly for him.

PS I agree with your other 2 points but it doesn't change what happened!     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exiled in Mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 19:13
Originally posted by acro prop acro prop wrote:

This all come to light with a question from a English reporter asking AWJ about the incident. His answer was dumbing down of the actual offence but more to do with the official’s missing it even calling Marlor a great guy. Maybe if it wasn’t mentioned we wouldn’t be having the over reaction in the media. Every post match interview AWJ has given i always thought his answers have been in the spirit of the game we all love.

I always try and avoid the chat on ITV at half time so I did not watch but I understood that it was highlighted at half time which is when Gareth Thomas made his comment about not retiring if it had happened when he was still playing. It had therefore already been picked up by TV before AWJ had talked to any press.

The act was not malicious but I believe was clearly intended to get a reaction out of AWJ, I nearly said rise rather than reaction, in the hope that AWJ would get carded. On that basis I believe Marler should get some sort of a ban as I am fed up with players trying to get opposition players to retaliate to something they have done in the hope/expectation that the other guy is the one the referee catches and who walks. On the same basis I would have yellow carded the Scottish 6 on Sunday as I thought it was him coming flying in when there was nothing really going on that kicked it all off.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Exiled in Mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 19:18
Should have said I loved AWJ's initial responses when asked about it at the press conference as with a deadpan face he kept asking the reporter to elaborate on the question as the reporter was clearly very unsure how to describe where Joe Marler had touched him 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 19:21
Originally posted by Exiled in Mann Exiled in Mann wrote:

On the same basis I would have yellow carded the Scottish 6 on Sunday as I thought it was him coming flying in when there was nothing really going on that kicked it all off.  
Absolutely agree with this.  I'd have done the same.
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