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A glimmer and signs of club rugby coming back

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Richard Lowther View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 21:06
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

From the telegraph:

Saracens will take 'pre-emptive action' if Championship season is postponed and results in extended exile

Saracens have drawn up contingency plans, which could involve legal challenges, to avoid being exiled from top flight for an extra year

I don't think this would exactly be a surprise to anyone. I'm still not sure the club actually thinks it's done anything wrong


My comments in response to that article. 

What are the grounds for the pre emptive legal challenges?

They have no automatic right to reentry to the Premiership unless they win it. If there are no Championship fixtures this season all existing clubs are in the same boat and presumably have the same legal rights that Saracens think they have.

If there are fixtures and Saracens fail to top the table they would have to stay in the second flight for another season.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 21:10
Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

If a premiership team really do go under I can't see them falling down the bottom of the pyramid, even if the rules do stipulate it. PRL are totally self serving in their interests and have good track record of just making the rules up as they go.

You have a number of scenarios, the most likely being some kind of prepack administration/insolvency and reemergencing of a new holding company rather than death of a club full stop. 

If a club does die, then any new club would have to restart lower down the leagues - possibly not at the very bottom - I don't think Orrell did, but London Scottish and Richmond did. 

As others have said a 'remerger' back with the Amatuer club would be one way of avoiding the snake but that would depend on the members of the amatuer club and whether they gained from it. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimbojetset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 21:14
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Free Fall Free Fall wrote:

Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

If a premiership team really do go under I can't see them falling down the bottom of the pyramid, even if the rules do stipulate it. PRL are totally self serving in their interests and have good track record of just making the rules up as they go.

I expect that will all depend on, if they have an Amateur Club, if it is separate, like in the London Welsh case, if may easier or better for the professional Club to be liquidated and the Amateur to carry on and to then drop Amateur from the title, after a season or two, again as London Welsh (Amateurs) have done, who for information are now playing in London 1 South (having been playing in Herts and Middx 2, before being promoted), once the season starts. 

Very true. Though it does rely on the Premiership club having an amateur team in the leagues already to avoid going to the very bottom. London Irish and Sale are certainly protected and their amateur teams are at a reasonable standard to restart. Wasps, Quins and Sarries Amateurs are all at the same level as LWA were. Newcastle as well could go crawling back to Gosforth. Not sure about the others.

Sale Sharks don't have an amateur team. Sale FC Rugby are a totally separate entity. Sale FC Rugby are owned in its entirety by their members.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 21:31
But you still have connections to the Sharks. I thought you still owned a share.
And don't they rent the Carrington training ground from you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 22:35
I suspect that PRL will find a way of looking after its 13 shareholders, the 12 Prem clubs plus Saracens. I suspect Worcester are at risk as well as Prem Clubs with no single owner - Harlequins and Leicester, for example. However, there could be new investment found which will save them all but see Champ clubs go to the wall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 08:50
So I've just read that the Premier 15s are to resume playing with some law amendments but no testing. Is that a viable option for the Championship or would the lack of crowds still make it an unviable option?

Edited by Count Ford - 06 Oct 2020 at 08:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stadium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 09:46
Should the Championship season get cancelled watch PRL extend Premiership to thirteen clubs. Saracens are a big money earner for all the clubs boosting attendances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 10:14
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

So I've just read that the Premier 15s are to resume playing with some law amendments but no testing. Is that a viable option for the Championship or would the lack of crowds still make it an unviable option?

As posted elsewhere 

Whilst this is good news that this area of the game is restarting. 
The honest question is how long do you think its going to be before one player tests positive and then the rest of that squad have to spend 14 days in Isolation?
Its not an issue if you are a full time pro, but from what I understand not all sides are full time. Many contain sports teachers in their ranks. 
Believe me I want Saturday rugby back as soon as, but I honestly think this is going to become a major issue inside 3 weeks of the restart!

Also have they thought how you travel to ares that are in lock down at present!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimbojetset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 10:17
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

But you still have connections to the Sharks. I thought you still owned a share.
And don't they rent the Carrington training ground from you.
We do have many personal connections. For instance, Dimes and Simon Orange both played for us, albeit one in the professional era and one in the amateur set up. But, they're a totally different club to us.
We don't own a share (not sure whether to be pleased about that or not :-))
They moved out of our Carrington ground over the summer and Stockport County now rent the offices and gym during the week. This means Sale FC now get more usage of our four pitches, gym on the evenings and weekends, also means we are able to put a proper club house set up down there (see our crowdfunding page) etc.
In short, if Sharks were to go belly up (unlikely). Then it would only have a minor impact on us as a club. Potentially, we might see more players who want to play a high level of rugby but don't want to move out of the north west so would join Caldy and Sale FC. But, that's all speculation. Sale Sharks run a financially tight ship. Small squad, large academy etc.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Heidjin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 10:18
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

So I've just read that the Premier 15s are to resume playing with some law amendments but no testing. Is that a viable option for the Championship or would the lack of crowds still make it an unviable option?
This could potentially be a very viable option for the Championship to get started this season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B Cap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 10:21
Have you details of the law amendments?

edit:

The adapted laws mean teams will play 35-minute halves and there will be fewer scrums as, among other changes, free-kicks will be given for a forward pass and there will be no scrum option at a free-kick or penalty.


Edited by B Cap - 06 Oct 2020 at 10:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalesman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 11:49
Presumably the Championship clubs are considering this?
If the Women are allowed to play under these variations, why not Men?
I guess there will be no crowds allowed at these Women's games, though, which is the main sticking point for Championship clubs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 12:57
Originally posted by Dalesman Dalesman wrote:

Presumably the Championship clubs are considering this?
If the Women are allowed to play under these variations, why not Men?
I guess there will be no crowds allowed at these Women's games, though, which is the main sticking point for Championship clubs.

Or it might just be the fact that they are using the women as guinea pigs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 14:33
Originally posted by jimbojetset jimbojetset wrote:

. But, that's all speculation. Sale Sharks run a financially tight ship. Small squad, large academy etc.



Not that financially tight. Last accounts at Companies House show operating loss almost doubled from £1.8 to £3.5 million.  They, like most clubs, are still spending in excess of their income and if the RFU (and/or TV) money reduces they are in trouble. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 14:40
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Dalesman Dalesman wrote:

Presumably the Championship clubs are considering this?
If the Women are allowed to play under these variations, why not Men?
I guess there will be no crowds allowed at these Women's games, though, which is the main sticking point for Championship clubs.

Or it might just be the fact that they are using the women as guinea pigs.

I am just imagining the size of the can of worms you have opened with that suggestion Robb!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 16:42
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

So I've just read that the Premier 15s are to resume playing with some law amendments but no testing. Is that a viable option for the Championship or would the lack of crowds still make it an unviable option?
Perhaps just me - but what are/is 'Premier 15s'? - Forget that, I just googled it Smile

'The RFU said the aim of the law variations, which will be reviewed after nine rounds, is to "reduce in game face-to-face contact" and "mitigate potential transmission risks and to allow competition to start without weekly testing".'

Anyone know what the law variations are? Am struggling to see how this could all work without testing, but who knows........


Edited by Bill Sley - 06 Oct 2020 at 16:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 16:57
See B Caps answer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Puli. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 17:09
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

See B Caps answer.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 19:28
Originally posted by stadium stadium wrote:

Should the Championship season get cancelled watch PRL extend Premiership to thirteen clubs. Saracens are a big money earner for all the clubs boosting attendances.


With no crowds that is an irrelevant argument, also I would not say Saracens have the largest travelling support.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 19:30
Originally posted by jimbojetset jimbojetset wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

But you still have connections to the Sharks. I thought you still owned a share.
And don't they rent the Carrington training ground from you.

We do have many personal connections. For instance, Dimes and Simon Orange both played for us, albeit one in the professional era and one in the amateur set up. But, they're a totally different club to us.
We don't own a share (not sure whether to be pleased about that or not :-))
They moved out of our Carrington ground over the summer and Stockport County now rent the offices and gym during the week. This means Sale FC now get more usage of our four pitches, gym on the evenings and weekends, also means we are able to put a proper club house set up down there (see our crowdfunding page) etc.
In short, if Sharks were to go belly up (unlikely). Then it would only have a minor impact on us as a club. Potentially, we might see more players who want to play a high level of rugby but don't want to move out of the north west so would join Caldy and Sale FC. But, that's all speculation. Sale Sharks run a financially tight ship. Small squad, large academy etc.




Most of their side is South African.
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