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2020/21 Leagues Announced

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fatbear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2020 at 06:35
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Three - Rosslyn Park, Blackheath and Old Elthamians.
Cambridge, Bishop Stortford and Tonbridge are in L&SE Division but outside London.

London and SE is the most populous of the four divisions - so it is unsurprising it has more clubs.

And although part of South West, Rams and Chinnor are closer to London than say, Bristol !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2020 at 09:01
But they are served by the Great Western Railway so can easily get there by steam train - or at least I assume that was the thinking when the divisions were drawn up.

But L&SE population is nearly three times that of SW division. Indeed Greater London on its own has a higher population than the SW division.

Berkshire and Oxfordshire are among the more populous counties in the South West so it is not surprising they have produced senior teams. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2020 at 12:40
As the late, great Chalky White when South West RDO pointed out - the South West stretches to within 10 miles of Twickenham (Berkshire) and 15 miles from the centre of Birmingham (Oxfordshire), oh, and also to Penzance!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2020 at 21:36
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

As the late, great Chalky White when South West RDO pointed out - the South West stretches to within 10 miles of Twickenham (Berkshire) and 15 miles from the centre of Birmingham (Oxfordshire), oh, and also to Penzance!!

Despite the fact you can have a Hampshire club (Havant for example) further west than a Berkshire club and they still get in LSE  while the Berkshire club has to go to Cornwall seems geographically silly to me. As the poster above said, it was originally based on the trainlines. But nowadays, might it not be more prudent to add Berks and Bucks  to LSE to avoid some of the more ludacrous trips?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2020 at 21:47
Because Hampshire is on London and South Western and the train goes to Waterloo - you know it make sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maire23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2020 at 23:43
I am completely confused how three clubs in the same county (Hinckley, Lions and Loughborough) have two teams in the South section and one in the North?! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2020 at 00:22
Well of course they should all be in the North.
But when the leagues were first set up the North was over represented in the upper national divisions.
So as the numbers equalise and indeed we move to having slightly more L&SE clubs in the National leagues.
L&SE has a population of ~24m North of 15m and Midlands of 10m with 8m in SW.

But the only way to reduce the numbers of Northern clubs at level 3 is if one is transferred South and relegated. 
So currently there are too many Northern and Midland clubs at level 4. 
Which means two Midlands clubs get to play in Nat 2 S.

As Nat2 S is dominated by London clubs - the South Eastern clubs Leicestershire are the ones that tend to be transferred South. 

If they were to split level 4 into three the current L&SE is already more than 1/3 the population. So you would possibly want to move Hampshire into SW division and split the Midlands between North and SW.

But I am not sure if that helps with travel.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2020 at 11:30
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Well of course they should all be in the North.
But when the leagues were first set up the North was over represented in the upper national divisions.
So as the numbers equalise and indeed we move to having slightly more L&SE clubs in the National leagues.
L&SE has a population of ~24m North of 15m and Midlands of 10m with 8m in SW.

But the only way to reduce the numbers of Northern clubs at level 3 is if one is transferred South and relegated. 
So currently there are too many Northern and Midland clubs at level 4. 
Which means two Midlands clubs get to play in Nat 2 S.

As Nat2 S is dominated by London clubs - the South Eastern clubs Leicestershire are the ones that tend to be transferred South. 

If they were to split level 4 into three the current L&SE is already more than 1/3 the population. So you would possibly want to move Hampshire into SW division and split the Midlands between North and SW.

But I am not sure if that helps with travel.




It would for teams in LSE.

Obviously the big problem is Devon & Cornwall which are significantly isolated in any National League scenario other than splitting a level into 4 rather than the proposed 3 or cypurrent 2.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blutarsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2020 at 16:00
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Well of course they should all be in the North.
But when the leagues were first set up the North was over represented in the upper national divisions.
So as the numbers equalise and indeed we move to having slightly more L&SE clubs in the National leagues.
L&SE has a population of ~24m North of 15m and Midlands of 10m with 8m in SW.

But the only way to reduce the numbers of Northern clubs at level 3 is if one is transferred South and relegated. 
So currently there are too many Northern and Midland clubs at level 4. 
Which means two Midlands clubs get to play in Nat 2 S.

As Nat2 S is dominated by London clubs - the South Eastern clubs Leicestershire are the ones that tend to be transferred South. 

If they were to split level 4 into three the current L&SE is already more than 1/3 the population. So you would possibly want to move Hampshire into SW division and split the Midlands between North and SW.

But I am not sure if that helps with travel.




It would for teams in LSE.

Obviously the big problem is Devon & Cornwall which are significantly isolated in any National League scenario other than splitting a level into 4 rather than the proposed 3 or cypurrent 2.

Thanks to the M5 us bumpkins down here in Devon & Cornwall can get to the Midlands far more easily than we can to Hampshire.

Barnstaple - Worthing         = 194 miles / 4 hours
Barnstaple - Stourbridge     = 175 miles / 3 hours
Barnstaple - Rotherham(!)  = 264 miles / 4 hours 12 minutes

So actually splitting L4 into North, SW and SE would probably work best for Devon and Cornwall clubs. Although I'd miss going to Worthing.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2020 at 16:09
This season Leicester Lions were obliged to level transfer to Nat2 South, for the next season(whenever that maybe) they have chose to go to Nat2 South, they could have declined.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 14:10
It will be interesting for any club travelling by train taking 30 players and Assorted staff will be an issue with social distancing they will take over half the train unless a vaccine is found. Already a number of coach firms have gone out of business so it will be difficult to hire in the short term. I do not believe we will get any meaningful rugby until the second half of the season. One of the problems is with players deciding to retire and those who travel to training, especially if they live in another country, Wales, Scotland Northern Ireland have to cross boarders. I think until clubs return to some sort of training the full consequences of the epidemic will not become apparent and there may be some big issues within leagues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 17:13
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

...and 15 miles from the centre of Birmingham (Oxfordshire)
When did they move Brum (or was it Oxon?).
You can double that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 17:15
Originally posted by maire23 maire23 wrote:

I am completely confused how three clubs in the same county (Hinckley, Lions and Loughborough) have two teams in the South section and one in the North?! 

Indeed. Living, as I do, a mile or so from the Hinckley ground, does that make me a soft southern bstrd? ShockedWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 19:50
Have you ever been to Redruth? Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 09:51
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

...and 15 miles from the centre of Birmingham (Oxfordshire)
When did they move Brum (or was it Oxon?).
You can double that!
It's more than that from the southern boundary of Brum. 25-30 miles, probably.  But the SW region extends quite a long way north.  Mickleton in Gloucestershire is less than 10 miles from Stratford upon Avon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 10:22
Cropredy is possibly the most northern point.

Bits of Buckinghamshire are within the M25. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 10:24
Seems pointless players isolating to and from a game, when 8 of them spend a fair bit of the game snuggled up in a scrum for 80 minutes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 10:55
Can you catch it from someones backside?

Cropredy is possibly the most northern point.  Cracking village, took a canal boat through there during the folk festival a few years back, my daughter saw some interesting sites! 

More seriously I work in the NHS and locall (Cornwall) the powers to be are predicting a second COVID wave to peak around October/November.

I like the idea of aiming to re-start the season initially with friendly local fixtures ?December and then the leagues in January but only playing half of the teams split on a location basis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 14:39
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Have you ever been to Redruth? Ouch
I grew up on the edge of Wood End, Cov. I know what scary is!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 14:55
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:


Bits of Buckinghamshire are within the M25. 

Mollington is slightly further north - and still around 33 miles from Brum.

And Mickleton is around 28 miles.

The SW rugby region is huge, and contributes to some odd notions as to what part of the country some places are.
And Gloucester, in that region, is also in the BBC W. Mids news catchment.
All quite confusing Big smile

Edit: Having just checked, Claydon is even further north than Mollington - but very little different in mileage. Hell of a stretch from The Lizard, whatever!


Edited by Kimbo - 24 May 2020 at 15:05
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