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2020/21 Leagues Announced

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front5 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote front5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 15:38
Are the bars open in Guernsey, could make for a good 14 day away trip Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 15:39
Red- definite freudian slip re disease. Totally agree especially if playing season delayed more than a couple of months. What would be the point of shoe horning a full season into an already congested timetable, especially as games may be played in front of none/limited numbers of spectators. What would be so bad about a season of more local fixtures and no league promotion and relegation? At the end of season 2020/21 clubs would have a much more detailed view of what level they could continue at if a restructuring takes place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 15:44
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Red- definite freudian slip re disease. Totally agree especially if playing season delayed more than a couple of months. What would be the point of shoe horning a full season into an already congested timetable, especially as games may be played in front of none/limited numbers of spectators. What would be so bad about a season of more local fixtures and no league promotion and relegation? At the end of season 2020/21 clubs would have a much more detailed view of what level they could continue at if a restructuring takes place.


Judging by the percentage of players that normally turn-out for Pre-Season friendlies - I don't see much point.

However, I fear a number of older players may decide to take an early retirement if we cannot play proper league rugby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 15:46
Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by Ex Coach Ex Coach wrote:

Talking Rugby Union suggested yesterday that matches could start in  November. Incidentally if anyone doesn't follow them on twitter it is a great source of Rugby News and interviews with players from all levels of the game. 

Clickbait

not sure why one media organisation gets singled out for criticism by our resident simian sceptic. they are all speculating what might happen regarding resumption, for one simple reason: no-one knows - it remains TBC.

sports journos haven't had any live sport to cover for 2 months, so those still in work are dividing their time between this type of story and retro 'best game/player ever' type features... both perfectly legitimate options, in the circumstances, IMHO. 

They haven’t been singled out. Crack on

I wasn't aware that you'd criticised any other media organisations. Not that I've trawled back through all your posts - can't think of anything more pointless...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 17:43
Any Form of travel will be a problem, Coach , train or plane. Try to get pre bookings for 30, with social distancing on a train. And what about clubs who normally have an overnight pre game. Hotels will be difficult to book. Of course we await the RFU's decision on travel allowances last year they cut it in half and increased to cost of Referees . Most clubs will probably see very little travel support at all. So unless they have got a positive cash balance before the season starts then how are they going to cover the costs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 20:12
The distances travelled in Nat 1, are insane, the sooner Nat 1 is split N and S the better. 12 teams per league, with play off games for top 4 in N and S, winner moves to Champ.

The same could happen for Nat 2 . . . . with 3 up three down play offs

Lots of excitement and lots of crowds . .post Covid!
Run with it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 22:03
Sorry run it back it’s called National for a reason, if a club doesn’t want to be National stay local
So many Christians not enough Lions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 22:09
I get what your saying  Rabbie, but it is unsustainable and all clubs know it, also National 2 is already regional so it does make sense and would make for better player welfare, more derbies, bigger crowds, more players staying playing and a very exciting end to the season for most clubs.

It would also stop Nat 1 becoming a London League!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 22:24
Fewer games means fewer tickets, lunches, match sponsors etc.
Yes that is balanced by less travel and fewer match fees.
However -fixed costs like mortgage on new club house do not go away and spreading that over fewer games means it eats a larger proportion of the income.

Fewer matches means less exposure for sponsors - which may reduce sponsorship money.
Given we will be in a recession with less sponsorship money we do not want to give people a reason to withdraw.

Which means much less money left from each game for match fees.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 06:14
I suspect we have plenty of time to discuss - I can't see rugby returning outside the Prem/Pro/Top 14 until a vaccine arrives.

I guess there's an outside chance of some if/when a reliable cheap test appears and there's certainty regarding immunity. Could we envisage both sides lining up to have their studs and certificate checked by the ref?

Not sure what the latest is on vaccine (there seems to be the occasional optimistic headline) but unless there's some big breakthrough we likely won't see rugby until pre-season 2021.

My hunch is that the hospitality facilities at clubs will be open before there is any safe way to prevent super spreading in a scrum.

Edited by Bill Sley - 11 May 2020 at 06:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 08:40
Originally posted by Redted Redted wrote:

Is teams travelling all over the country by coach, a great form of transport for transmitting the decease, the best thing to do next season?
Would the game not be better served by having local leagues next season?
In my area for instance a decent top league would be Cornwall & Devon which could easily be covered using car travel.

Given the financial uncertainty this would save a massive amount on travel money for both the RFU and the club's.  National Leagues could then restart In the new format in 2021/2022.

Guernsey currently have a 14 day quarantine for anybody travelling from the UK.

They'd have to just force Guernsey to play all their games in the UK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 11:18
Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

I get what your saying  Rabbie, but it is unsustainable and all clubs know it, also National 2 is already regional so it does make sense and would make for better player welfare, more derbies, bigger crowds, more players staying playing and a very exciting end to the season for most clubs.

It would also stop Nat 1 becoming a London League!!!


Why not go the whole hog and regionalise the Premiership and Championship.

If N1 is predominantly Southern then that is because the best teams are in the South. Regionalise N1 means artificially promoting a number of Northern teams to balance the numbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 11:21
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Redted Redted wrote:

Is teams travelling all over the country by coach, a great form of transport for transmitting the decease, the best thing to do next season?
Would the game not be better served by having local leagues next season?
In my area for instance a decent top league would be Cornwall & Devon which could easily be covered using car travel.

Given the financial uncertainty this would save a massive amount on travel money for both the RFU and the club's.  National Leagues could then restart In the new format in 2021/2022.

Guernsey currently have a 14 day quarantine for anybody travelling from the UK.


They'd have to just force Guernsey to play all their games in the UK.


Guernsey playing in UK wouldn't work as presumably they would have to quarantine when they returned to the island - doubt they could afford to base in UK for 3 months?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hills17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 11:22
Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

The distances travelled in Nat 1, are insane, the sooner Nat 1 is split N and S the better. 12 teams per league, with play off games for top 4 in N and S, winner moves to Champ.

The same could happen for Nat 2 . . . . with 3 up three down play offs

Lots of excitement and lots of crowds . .post Covid!
 
Good post Runitback, I'm a Plymouth supporter, the year Taunton promoted at 75 miles left wondering when/ if the season will start. Redruth could have snuck in too, only 60 miles, exciting thought. Once the nearest games were Moseley and Rosslyn at 5 hours on a coach. Cinderford/ Rams and Chinnor have filled that distance over the last two or three years. It was a breeze to Reading back in December, my derby couldn't make Cinderford and on day we lost but Rams played really nice rugby so can appreciate that.
 
I love doing these trips been to Darlington via weekend in York few times now, our furthest North, enjoy visiting Cambridge in the East and boy that can feel quite a journey on a Friday. Caldy a great club. These just a few, can't go through each memory but get good memories at each. Streets of Canterbury on the Friday so good to be there. Rotherham were as friendly as when they beat us another memory.
 
The heart says keep this great league as it is, so many good clubs out there but head says is it really sustainable, visited one or two clubs over the years during it who have been in relegation trouble so their supporters have said if it came to it would happy to be relegated etc. Look at Hull other week, saying six derbies now and won't miss the journey to Plymouth.
 
Definitely an interesting one, Redruth in Division 2 South, another hour down road from Plymouth in deepest darkest Cornwall have similar I guess. What keeps me going is my enjoyment for the game in the safe surrounding rugby brings. I see why a regionlised league would be beneficial.


Edited by hills17 - 11 May 2020 at 11:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 11:56
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Redted Redted wrote:

Is teams travelling all over the country by coach, a great form of transport for transmitting the decease, the best thing to do next season?
Would the game not be better served by having local leagues next season?
In my area for instance a decent top league would be Cornwall & Devon which could easily be covered using car travel.

Given the financial uncertainty this would save a massive amount on travel money for both the RFU and the club's.  National Leagues could then restart In the new format in 2021/2022.

Guernsey currently have a 14 day quarantine for anybody travelling from the UK.


They'd have to just force Guernsey to play all their games in the UK.


Guernsey playing in UK wouldn't work as presumably they would have to quarantine when they returned to the island - doubt they could afford to base in UK for 3 months?

I suspect it was probably tongue in cheek, but that appears to be the plan for Catalans and Toronto in SuperLeague, and potentially Toulouse in the Championship. Come over here, stay here for the season, play every fixture as an away match, worry about going home at the end.

Of course the two points to note on that are:

1) in the case of Toronto most of the team are English anyway, so would be at "home"
2) just because that's what's being talked about it still won't (IMO) happen!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 15:14
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Redted Redted wrote:

Is teams travelling all over the country by coach, a great form of transport for transmitting the decease, the best thing to do next season?
Would the game not be better served by having local leagues next season?
In my area for instance a decent top league would be Cornwall & Devon which could easily be covered using car travel.

Given the financial uncertainty this would save a massive amount on travel money for both the RFU and the club's.  National Leagues could then restart In the new format in 2021/2022.

Guernsey currently have a 14 day quarantine for anybody travelling from the UK.


They'd have to just force Guernsey to play all their games in the UK.


Guernsey playing in UK wouldn't work as presumably they would have to quarantine when they returned to the island - doubt they could afford to base in UK for 3 months?


I suspect it was probably tongue in cheek, but that appears to be the plan for Catalans and Toronto in SuperLeague, and potentially Toulouse in the Championship. Come over here, stay here for the season, play every fixture as an away match, worry about going home at the end.

Of course the two points to note on that are:

1) in the case of Toronto most of the team are English anyway, so would be at "home"
2) just because that's what's being talked about it still won't (IMO) happen!


The difference is Catalans and Toronto are professional clubs whereas I suspect Guernsey are not (please advise if they are) so will need to be at home to work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 16:52
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Sorry run it back it’s called National for a reason, if a club doesn’t want to be National stay local

Correct, if you don't want to play nationally albeit with associated costs then don't. 

Level 3/4 could rationalise into wider regions but then the jump to Level 3 becomes greater.

I think back to amateur days when winning was great but not the be all and endall, when players volunteered for maintenance during the summer, when coach trips were the highlight of the season and there were some great local derbies - perhaps 4 in a season. The only income was bar, subs, discos and the Christmas draw. When games were watched by one man and his dog.

Believe it or not, it was great fun.


Edited by FHLH - 11 May 2020 at 17:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jester10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 17:30
Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

I get what your saying  Rabbie, but it is unsustainable and all clubs know it, also National 2 is already regional so it does make sense and would make for better player welfare, more derbies, bigger crowds, more players staying playing and a very exciting end to the season for most clubs.

It would also stop Nat 1 becoming a London League!!!

Only two of the sides in Nat 1 next season (if it happens) are in London. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 17:39
Three - Rosslyn Park, Blackheath and Old Elthamians.
Cambridge, Bishop Stortford and Tonbridge are in L&SE Division but outside London.

London and SE is the most populous of the four divisions - so it is unsurprising it has more clubs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote strent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 20:11
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

[QUOTE=Runitback] I get what your saying  Rabbie, but it is unsustainable and all clubs know it, also National 2 is already regional so it does make sense and would make for better player welfare, more derbies, bigger crowds, more players staying playing and a very exciting end to the season for most clubs.

It would also stop Nat 1 becoming a London League!!!


Why not go the whole hog and regionalise the Premiership and Championship.

Runitback
Let the professionals play nationally and everyone else regionally. Seems sensible. 
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