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2018-2019 Nat2S Status

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Welshie7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 11:02
Interesting finding/reading there Tyke
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Darth Raider View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 16:06
Good information Dave .....a couple of points.

Your 'home grown' definition is obviously precise and correct.   From an emotional perspective though, when local lads join the club in their mid-to-late teens, play academy and A team for a few years before getting into the front side.....they feel pretty home grown to me.   As opposed that is, to attracting players from other counties or even countries,  due to the enviable ability to pay them for their services.
We do still have a commendably large number that started in the minis though  !   Well done us.

Secondly......I can't for the life of me name 5 first team squad players who played Nat1.  Got McLean, Perkins, Maslen and Richards.  So who please, is the other one ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dummyH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 16:30
@Darth Raider 

Matt Walsh, although not for Worthing to be fair


Edited by dummyH - 22 Nov 2018 at 16:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 17:58
Originally posted by dummyH dummyH wrote:

@Darth Raider 

Matt Walsh, although not for Worthing to be fair



So therefore should not be included in your figures.
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Tyke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tyke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 18:06
I have counted all those who played Junior and or Colts rugby. If you include those who arrived at 18 years of age and played A's there are at least three more to add in. No. 5 was Jon Whittall.

If only Webb-Ellis hadn't given them the ball back!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 20:40
Originally posted by Tyke Tyke wrote:

I have counted all those who played Junior and or Colts rugby. If you include those who arrived at 18 years of age and played A's there are at least three more to add in. No. 5 was Jon Whittall.



During your research, did you note the number of appearances in the N1 season by those 5?

From memory, I suspect Perkins, Richards and McLean played most of the games, Whittal a few less ( might have a number of bench starts) and Maslen less than half (serious injury at Doncaster).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 21:16
Thanks Dave,,,,I recall what seem to be a few appearances by Jon. I wondered who it was.  

Anybody else, ?  Others teams got any interesting numbers ?  Care to share and join the debate ?Obviously,  the Raiders R-M crew are now, and have been for a while, quite proud of our production line.  I recall a few years back of us being accused by a number of Redruth fans of being a much moneyed club.  Hah.  I wish. 

Hawks for example ?  How goes the home grown product there ?  I can imagine it might have got worse of late, what near neighbours Chinnor, perhaps, becoming a preferred destination ?  WElshie ?   I don't have an insider, unless you count the 'gone missing' Mr Burden.....who is now a closet Choppers fan of course Wink  So we must rely on you ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Hawks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 23:19
Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

Thanks Dave,,,,I recall what seem to be a few appearances by Jon. I wondered who it was.  

Anybody else, ?  Others teams got any interesting numbers ?  Care to share and join the debate ?Obviously,  the Raiders R-M crew are now, and have been for a while, quite proud of our production line.  I recall a few years back of us being accused by a number of Redruth fans of being a much moneyed club.  Hah.  I wish. 

Hawks for example ?  How goes the home grown product there ?  I can imagine it might have got worse of late, what near neighbours Chinnor, perhaps, becoming a preferred destination ?  WElshie ?   I don't have an insider, unless you count the 'gone missing' Mr Burden.....who is now a closet Choppers fan of course Wink  So we must rely on you ?


Oh Darth my old fruit!!

Home grown players, the late James Comden came through the juniors, so did Alec Hepburn, through Henley college, Wasps academy then Henley Hawks now Exeter & England. There are more but our coaches will know more than me!!
I will try and find out more!!
'Go The Hawks!'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 21:27
Some outstanding away wins this week.  V well done to Dings, Redruth, Wild Geese and Clifton.   None of which I saw coming Embarrassed   That said.....it was another shocking week for scores on Rolling Maul prediction.  

The City Side came up with another very good away win.  Interesting to see the two very contrasting styles I would have thought, with the backs team coming out on top, despite a hat-trick from the opposing hooker.

I have not seen Canterbury yet,  but it seems likely that almost anyone could grab the second spot this year,  It may come down to luck with injuries ?  TJ's and even OA's might be looking at the prospect of a playoff ?
Titans I suppose, MUST have several injuries and not much squad depth ?  Three consecutive losses and shipping 132 points in those games does not augur well. 

If Rams keep their discipline and stick to their (mostly) forwards based game, the title should be theirs and by a significant margin. 

There are four sides locked into the relegation battle at the mo, though the Wild Geese seem to be on a bit of an uptrend of late ?  I thought Guernsey would do better as winter arrived and they got players back ?  Birmingham are now definitely suffering from that 5pt penalty.....it could prove fatal. 

If that battle goes much as it has in most recent years, then Clifton,  BSE and even Raiders might get pulled into it Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2018 at 16:56
A request......Tyke/Dave......I don't have the details so can't know, but on the subject of young teams that was deliberated earlier in this thread,  I suspect that Raiders may have fielded their youngest ever starting pack against the outstanding Rams 8 on Saturday ?  

Do you have that information to hand ?   It looked outrageously young to me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dropout22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 17:15
Hawks, are really starting to benefit with lads joining them at 18, from the AASE Programme they have with Wasps. 3 that play for their 1s, all coming from there in the last 2 years.

Also believe they've started a new Under 20s programme, although not strong as of yet if they continue to develop links with the college and the club potentially make the step up to L3 I see the programme becoming very strong as an interesting option for those coming out of the AASE Programme and requiring a club at a reasonable level with not bad pay.  


Edited by dropout22 - 28 Nov 2018 at 17:17
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Tyke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tyke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 07:39
Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

A request......Tyke/Dave......I don't have the details so can't know, but on the subject of young teams that was deliberated earlier in this thread,  I suspect that Raiders may have fielded their youngest ever starting pack against the outstanding Rams 8 on Saturday ?  

Do you have that information to hand ?   It looked outrageously young to me. 
 

I am sure you are correct Darth, the average age of the starting pack was 21, ranging from 18 to the "ancient" Birch at 25, I cannot recall a pack that young starting before. It was not however our youngest front row, Head, Grief and Litterick last season, with a total of 57 years between them, take that prize.
If only Webb-Ellis hadn't given them the ball back!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 10:33
Originally posted by Tyke Tyke wrote:

Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

A request......Tyke/Dave......I don't have the details so can't know, but on the subject of young teams that was deliberated earlier in this thread,  I suspect that Raiders may have fielded their youngest ever starting pack against the outstanding Rams 8 on Saturday ?  

Do you have that information to hand ?   It looked outrageously young to me. 
 

I am sure you are correct Darth, the average age of the starting pack was 21, ranging from 18 to the "ancient" Birch at 25, I cannot recall a pack that young starting before. It was not however our youngest front row, Head, Grief and Litterick last season, with a total of 57 years between them, take that prize.
 
Accepting that one of the current lot is a Quin, if the others can be retained its fantastic for the future. Litterick was showing great potential before being injured. hopefully he is back soon.
My only fear in the short term is they have a very steep learning curve when coming up against the more established older players fielded by others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweatysock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 17:17
a good fighting draw for Worthing today 18-18. Scored a fantastic try in the first half too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 19:12
Originally posted by sweatysock sweatysock wrote:

a good fighting draw for Worthing today 18-18. Scored a fantastic try in the first half too



Worthing showed great spirit today.
Well worth the draw againstTJ’s and could have nicked it at the end.
Two cracking try’s in the first half that were top quality scores. If Cipriani made the passes that Matt made to set up those scores it would be all over the back pages.
Well done to all involved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 19:39
Especially good how the young pack turned it round after a difficult start, in the last 20 minutes they were well on top of the TJs 8, so much so that TJs chose a line out rather than a scrum for the last play of the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jester10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 20:45
It's starting to look like the bottom four as losing ground on the clubs above. Clifton getting 5 points today will give them a boost ahead of their match with Rams next weekend. 
The top three look like they'll compete for the title this season, albeit we're not 1/2 way through yet. Taunton being 16 points behind Rams must surely be too far adrift? 

Enjoying life!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 16:58
Hi Jester ........I don't see the battle for the title as being between the top 3......Rams would need to find some pretty inventive ways of throwing games away ?   They just need to play some pragmatic rugby over the next 6 weeks or so......I suspect a big gap will develop back to second place quite soon.

The real battle will be for that playoff place and as I may have said before, I would not be surprised if whoever clinched it lost 8 or even 10 games on the way.

No disrespect intended to any side, but although Nat2S this year has again got great strength in depth, we are to my mind missing any obvious candidates for Nat1.  In fact, it is possible that second place this year might be a bit of a poisoned chalice  ?  That said, there is a fair chance that our second placed side will end up with an away playoff that they might lose ?  So could be a moot point.

I suspect that as things stand, the City Side might be the 'best of the rest',  but other teams might yet decide to spend a few bob on recruitment and make a late dash for the line ?

I would agree that it is already most likely that three of the existing bottom 4 will go down.  Can old Reds pull off the escape act again ?  They are better positioned than last year and might be my favourites to escape the drop.
 
Lastly.....I too watch the TJ's game, but thought the visitors had the better of possession and territory, so was pleased with a draw.  Also, the last play of the game was actually a Raiders lineout throw-in......horrendously not straight as it happens so a great chance to nick it was lost, not for the first time either.  Ouch 
An observation rather than a criticism, but although TJ's have done outstandingly well since their promotion to level 4 AND, have recruited well, they still struggle to convert possession and territory into tries.  They defend with great organisation but just 4 TBP's so far ......another poor return for an ambitious outfit ?   And fewer forwards tries scored than any other team in the league ?  A good side methinks but still a work in progress.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 17:49
Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

Hi Jester ........I don't see the battle for the title as being between the top 3......Rams would need to find some pretty inventive ways of throwing games away ?   They just need to play some pragmatic rugby over the next 6 weeks or so......I suspect a big gap will develop back to second place quite soon.

The real battle will be for that playoff place and as I may have said before, I would not be surprised if whoever clinched it lost 8 or even 10 games on the way.

No disrespect intended to any side, but although Nat2S this year has again got great strength in depth, we are to my mind missing any obvious candidates for Nat1.  In fact, it is possible that second place this year might be a bit of a poisoned chalice  ?  That said, there is a fair chance that our second placed side will end up with an away playoff that they might lose ?  So could be a moot point.

I suspect that as things stand, the City Side might be the 'best of the rest',  but other teams might yet decide to spend a few bob on recruitment and make a late dash for the line ?

I would agree that it is already most likely that three of the existing bottom 4 will go down.  Can old Reds pull off the escape act again ?  They are better positioned than last year and might be my favourites to escape the drop.
 
Lastly.....I too watch the TJ's game, but thought the visitors had the better of possession and territory, so was pleased with a draw.  Also, the last play of the game was actually a Raiders lineout throw-in......horrendously not straight as it happens so a great chance to nick it was lost, not for the first time either.  Ouch 
An observation rather than a criticism, but although TJ's have done outstandingly well since their promotion to level 4 AND, have recruited well, they still struggle to convert possession and territory into tries.  They defend with great organisation but just 4 TBP's so far ......another poor return for an ambitious outfit ?   And fewer forwards tries scored than any other team in the league ?  A good side methinks but still a work in progress.   



Actually, the last play of the day was the one after Worthing's not straight line-out. TJs chose the line-out rather than the scrum and immediately put the ball out.

Have to agree TJs seem a solid outfit but most weeks have low scoring games, looking at a 4-8 final placing imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 21:36
Ah-ha....quite right Steve.....I was standing behind the lineout and and contributing to an  exercise of pointless pedantry, you are correct, BUT,  TJ's did bravely go through several phases from their own lineout, looking for a breakout and a win, it was only when the ball was passed back to Robinson that he (sensibly I thought) elected to take the draw. 

You going down to Bristol next week ?  
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