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2018-2019 Nat2S Status

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Darth Raider View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 20:55
It is a good thing that the green-eyed-monsters on this site are less prevalent of late.   Much of that may be due to the departure to fields-anew of Chinnor.....the last object of envy in our league.  Just to repeat myself.....there are several revenue streams at all of our clubs.  In almost every case,these streams are supported by our unpaid volunteers.
When one set of volunteers outperforms another, I think it inappropriate to label them as some sort of rich-boys.

Hard work and the success it sometimes brings.....even if it is only short term, are to be lauded IMO.

I confess that it seems to be true, that the teams with the superior infrastructure seem to be the most successful on the park as well, but we are playing a semi-professional game here so financial success is to my mind, an integral part of overall team success ?  WE are a club are we not???  and what happens 0n the field has ever been a reflection of what happens off of it ?

So best of luck from me to all the current overachievers.......a last point though......Fairmile.....you seemed to infer that the existence of one or two bigger sponsors was an (unfair?) advantage. There are probably those among us who would consider Invesco Perpetual a pretty significant sponsor ?  WE will have them if you don't want them Big smile

Best of luck to all with injuries.......I continue to watch on with interest.Smile
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sweatysock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweatysock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 20:08
worthing were well beaten by a better side today - Barnes were more incisive and defended well when they needed to. Seemed to have a few missing today, and maybe that made a difference
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 21:20
Originally posted by sweatysock sweatysock wrote:

worthing were well beaten by a better side today - Barnes were more incisive and defended well when they needed to. Seemed to have a few missing today, and maybe that made a difference


Have to disagree, Worthing were bossing the 1st half until conceding 2 tries in the last 3 to 4 minutes.

Failing to put away a couple of decisive breaks cost them along with a give away try in the 2nd half ( a very good low catch by a Barnes player leading to a try)

Yes Worthing were missing 3 key players and lost several to injuries in the 1st half which obviously limited their substitutions.

Key part of the game was when Barnes held out on their line following a prolonged period in the 2nd half.

On the day Barnes just about deserved the win, but I wouldn't say the Raiders were well beaten.
RAID ON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 21:44
Hi Sweaty......good to see you making a contribution yourself.
A few missing ?  Don't blame you for not knowing but this was a savagely depleted side that did (IMO) a great job against an on form,  probably upper middle table team.

Of course....the opinion as to what is our best side will differ from fan to fan, and the coaches may well differ completely, but in my best Raiders side we were missing......Spurgeon, Perkins, Barnes, Maslen, Walsh, McIlwaine and Dawe.   We had many others playing out of position and then lost two more key players, Price and Forrest......also playing out of position, in the second quarter.  

IMO. with a bit better game management and any sort of decent defence from our back 3, we would still have won the game.  We had some outsanding individual performances IMO and Jack Lee at lock had his best game by a clear margin for me.....my MoM.  Overall.....a pretty decent team effort and for a home grown side, much to enthuse about for the future.....particularly the more unified performance of our very young pack  Big smile   I could bang on for a while.....Harris, Sassone, Birch and Lake also had great games.  Good effort lads.  Wink  
Tragic to see Kemp do his shoulder again.....praying it is not another dislocation Ouch  Great player. 

That said,  this is the best Barnes side I have ever seen and they have a good balance between backs and forwards.  No way they go back down this time. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweatysock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 21:50
yes agree about Barnes - normally can assume a home win each time but they were tough opposition today
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Joy of (Level) 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 22:52
As a neutral it was a great game at Taunton, ultimately turning on the home second-row's red card early in the second period. The hosts were deservedly 24-12 to the good at that point and their scrummage, always under pressure, couldn't then cope with the powerful Rams eight.

They stuck to their task though, and were deserving of at least two points come the end. For me, Rams got the job done but on this showing will need a far better back line if they are to succeed at a higher level.

A great advert for L4 rugby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 22:56
Darth
Out of interest who were playing out of position? And why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 08:20
Originally posted by Welshie7 Welshie7 wrote:

Darth
Out of interest who were playing out of position? And why?


Haha.....
Surely Darths list of 7 senior players missing gives a clue as to why others were playing out of position ???

Edited by Wigwam - 18 Nov 2018 at 08:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 09:37
Wigwam - I see your point so let me be clearer with my questions....

1. Who was playing out of position?

2. Why were they playing out of position? Is this opinion or fact? Could the 'movers' actually be in their best position and regularly play in another position to accommodate the 7 missing? If so many are missing wouldn't you play the strongest players in the positions required and fill around....why 'weaken' team further?

Added question
3. Would the depth of the squad at Worthing be a worry if players are having to play out of position?



The other comment I suppose could be discussed is the young pack - not much different from previous weeks?
This and the 'young backs' that are often quoted means must be a very young team yet if statbunker is correct there are quite a number of the players used this season who played in the National One Worthing team of a few years back????



Just saying
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Hawks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 10:20
Meanwhile....... Henley notched up their seventh win on the bounce, keeping pressure on Rams, but Canterbury are the next visitors to Dry Leas, 2nd vs 3rd place teams, interesting contest indeed, Canterbury are playing well this season, so we have to be on our guard to make it eight wins on the trot!!
Sorry to see our friends from Sussex having a lean spell at the moment 😂😂

Edited by The Hawks - 18 Nov 2018 at 10:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honestinjun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 10:39
Just to balance up the Worthing v Barnes game comments, Barnes were missing several keys players yesterday too, the starting XV showcasing a good representation of 2nd XV players, and the lads were not at all happy with their performance at after the game, so you are correct, Worthing could well have won. However the belief in the Barnes team this year is very strong, and whilst they very much respect each of their opposition they don’t fear anyone and we are not aiming to merely survive this season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 19:56
Originally posted by Welshie7 Welshie7 wrote:


The other comment I suppose could be discussed is the young pack - not much different from previous weeks?
This and the 'young backs' that are often quoted means must be a very young team yet if statbunker is correct there are quite a number of the players used this season who played in the National One Worthing team of a few years back????



Just saying


Quite a number ???
As far a I know only two of saturdays side played regularly in the Nat One year and what difference does that make anyway ??? They were only there one year !!! So hardly seasoned Nat One players. Yes a couple of the squad have played elsewhere at a higher level in the past but overall this squad is a homegrown bunch of kids. Clearly when the word “young” is used it rankles with a few on here. No idea why ???


Edited by Wigwam - 18 Nov 2018 at 20:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 21:05
Welshie.......I would echo Wigwams comments.....in that I personally am only aware of two squad players left over from the Nat1 era.....it seems that you are trying to infer that we have a core of ex Nat1 players and that this 'young players' bit is a nonsense.
I personally, would categorise 'young players' as being in the 18-20yr old range and as such......we field many of them each week....not always by choice.

As to the other stuff......well of course it is an opinion.....that is what this forum is supposed to be about.....a sharing of such.  As it happens....I believe it to be fact but that is just me.....each can make their own minds up.

I am not going to go into the exhaustive detail of our match day side, but by way of example....

We had an openside, who HAS been playing blindside to accommodate another player,  playing at 8, until he was injured.
We had a second team lock on the blindside and a hooker at openside.  It got much more complicated when our 8 got injured and we re-organised......likewise, when a minute or so later, the centre we had playing at 10 also got injured.  We re-organised again and got on with it.  I lost count of who was where around that point, though we definitely had a full back and then a scrum half on the wing.....but that is not unusual and the whole bunch might be best described as utility backs these last few games. Embarrassed

I suspect that most if not all of the teams in our physical league suffer similarly as we too, have done in the past.  Just my opinion, but we are leaning harder on young second team replacements than usual at the mo.  They have done well IMO opinion and are starting to 'front up' physically. 

FWIW......a few of them gave such good accounts of themselves on Saturday that IMO, they may be difficult to displace now.  

Finally, who is to define the expression 'playing out of position' ?  If you play in a position that your team needs you to, and for say, four to six games, but is not the position that you have played in during your formative years.....is that your new position regardless ?  Bu&&ered if I know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 23:51
Thanks for the lengthy explanation Darth I appreciate the time, effort and info. Wigwam a little more aggressive in his response but as they say forums are for opinions.

18-20 yr olds bodes well for the future unless they go to uni plus two of them are DR so they will go anyway.
Wigwam says home grown kids but that's not strictly true (12 of the 20 not through the junior section of the club if my insider at the club is correct) but let's not get carried away by this.

I wasn't inferring that this squad was part of the N1 days but previous players this season have been and again I wasn't saying that this was an indication of the strength merely they can't be that young if they were around then :)

As regards the players, again your knowledge of your squad is much better than mine, but it could be (as my spy tells me) that the 8 is actually a 6 but wants to be a 7, the 2nd team lock is a 6, the hooker at openside is an openside who tried hooking, the centre at 10 played most if not all his junior rugby as a 10 (son of a club legend?), the 9 on the wing has played many games there and maybe an indication of why Worthing score so many tries (and my man says why Saturday was 'loose') is that apart from Sims every other back on show had started a National League match on the wing - wow I bet there are very few clubs who can say that.

Good to have some debate on the forum but I guess lots will be bored with this so I will draw a line under it now ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigwam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 09:51
Welshie
Haha aggressive moi ??? and before you draw a line................
 
Has the "insider" also told you that a couple of times this season the match day squad has been made up of 13 / 14 players who graduated from the junior ranks ???
 
To add a bit of balance to the age debate I think I am right in saying that Worthing regularly field the oldest player in National One at 43 years old........sorry young.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 21:46
Welshie.....if anyone gets bored with reading this stuff they have options.  In my experience, we have about 100 views per actual post, so they also have the option of presenting something more interesting themselves ?  

Not sure you need much from Raiders rolling maulers if you have an insider as you say, though I would disagree with a fair bit of what you have been told.

In direct counterpoint to the 'young backs' label that you seem to object to.....herewith my own preferred Raiders backline.....most of these players will be available in the coming weeks.  I add the highest level at which I believe they have played.  I think perhaps 4 of them played in the home game against Redruth......most missing since.  WE were I think.....devastating with ball in hand in that game.

You all may laugh, but I think this back line is not only the best by a margin in Nat2S, but unlikely to be bettered in Nat1.  Then again....it is not likely to be selected either ......even if all are available TongueWink

9.  Matt Walsh   level 2 Rotherham Titans
10.Matt McLean level 3 Raiders
11.Curtis Barnes  level 4 Raiders
12. Jon Dawe  played for Germany against Canada in the World Cup on saturday
13. Kiba Richards  level 3 Raiders/Esher
14. Jack Maslen  level 3 Raiders
15. David McIlwaine  level 2 Ulster/Doncaster/Bristol.Carnegie etc

Jack Forrest and perhaps others might be close to forcing their way into this experienced group. 

Either way.....a frightening proposition for any opposing side if we can get some ball Big smile.

Just for the record....and again just IMO.....the most outstanding talent amongst this group would be Curtis Barnes.....I think he is the best winger in our league and I look forward to see a whole season where we get the ball into his hands. 
Five of those were missing last Saturday Ouch

COME ON RAIDERS  !!!!!!
   
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Welshie7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 23:55
Catching up online during my tea break.
Darth you are very knowledgable re the Raiders. My man on 'inside' is often pie eyed by the time it gets to half time so I bow to your greater info.

Although isn't Dawe a 7? Didn't see his name in the squad against Canada.....good for Worthing and N2 to have an international playing though.

I couldn't comment on this being the best backline in the league or above as I don't see all the teams play but as you know games are won by forwards and scoreline determined by backs as the great man once said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Welshie7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 23:56
Wigwam which matches 'has the squad been made up of 13/14 home grown players'. That is something any club should be boosting about
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 10:00
Welshie.....Jon Dawe is a talented rugby footballer and yes, he does play 7 for Raiders.  It is just that, in my troubled old mind.......I think he should play 12 or 13. 

Interesting that your insider is pie-eyed by half time......that narrows the search down to about 200 LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tyke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 09:23
As the highest placed (league wise) club in the county, Worthing attract players who have completed their youth rugby at local clubs but wish to try their hand at a higher level of adult rugby than their home club can provide. As these players arrive on the scene at 18/19 years of age they are sometimes mistaken for home grown players by supporters. Whilst 13/14 players aged 23-24 and under would be correct for most games this season, the table below shows the actual number of home grown players fielded in each game thus far. The second column shows the number of players fielded in each game who played in Worthing's National 1 season.

H Grown Nat 1
TAUNTON 10 3
GUERNSEY 9 5
REDRUTH 10 5
CLIFTON 10 5
BEES 10 4
CANTERBURY 10 3
LIWG 7 2
HENLEY 9 2
OA's 8 2
BSE 8 3
BARNES 9 2

If only Webb-Ellis hadn't given them the ball back!
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