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14th Premiership place

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Poll Question: Which of the following should get the 14th place in the Prem?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
15 [20.27%]
9 [12.16%]
24 [32.43%]
2 [2.70%]
24 [32.43%]
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2020 at 14:58
If you look at the 2012/3 national 2 South Season which was played with 15 teams:

Worthing who had byes in the first and last wek of the scheduled season - though had a rearranged game to play - had their last home game on April 13th.A minor inconvenience. 

Canterbury had a bye on December 15th which meant they did not have a home game in December.

Bournemouth did not have a home game between the 9th Math and 20th April as they were away the two weeks before their home bye.

Clifton had a home game on 2nd February, with the weeks off during the 6 nations and a bye, their next home game was 23rd March.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2020 at 17:00
It’s not a question of whether or not it is desirable, there need to be 13 teams to include all the current cabal.
If it were to stay at 13 there would be inevitable rows about which clubs were benefiting from rest weekends during international windows.
Wouldn’t it be good to just be able to watch a match??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2020 at 17:19
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Wasps, however, could only use it to chip away at a little of their massive year-on-year losses.
Didn't Wasps make a rights issue about five years ago which suddenly made them the richest club in Europe, and was going to enable them to compete with the top French clubs for world-class signings?
Ha ha, yeah. Still chuckling about that one.
Those £100 bonds are now worth 40 nicker.
It'll be interesting when they mature in a year or so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnLowe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2020 at 17:41
In an earlier post, Trailfinders suggested that Doncaster might try to increase their crowd by rebranding. Not sure why that should be necessary. A few years ago when Doncaster lost the playoff final against Bristol, their average gate from Xmas to season end was just over 3,500 with two crowds close to 5,000. Yes they were fortunate that the games included two home games against local enemies Rotherham and Nottingham, the second semi-final leg against Leeds and a home first leg final against Bristol. To my mind this proved that the local interest was there and it just needs to be recaptured.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2020 at 17:57
I’m not too sure that I would take advice from Ealing on how to increase crowds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trailfinder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2020 at 18:58
it was just a tongue in cheek comment re Leeds/Yorkshire but i guess it isn't funny if you have to explain the joke. I do wonder though what the realistic size of the target market is for all three clubs.


Edited by Trailfinder - 11 Aug 2020 at 19:00
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2020 at 19:25
Am I correct to believe that these bonds are due to pay £6.50 a year in interest and then in 2 years the club is due to repay the full £100, but the market price is £40.   So the market is essentially saying it thinks Wasps is as likely as to  default as to pay up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trailfinder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2020 at 20:30
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Am I correct to believe that these bonds are due to pay £6.50 a year in interest and then in 2 years the club is due to repay the full £100, but the market price is £40.   So the market is essentially saying it thinks Wasps is as likely as to  default as to pay up.


At £40 the market is saying that they will not be paying their bond back at par and a restructuring (a partial default) is probably inevitable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2020 at 21:11
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

If you look at the 2012/3 national 2 South Season which was played with 15 teams:

Worthing who had byes in the first and last wek of the scheduled season -
though had a rearranged game to play - had their last home game on
April 13th.A minor inconvenience. 

Canterbury had a bye on December 15th which meant they did not have a home game in December.

Bournemouth did not have a home game between the 9th Math and 20th April as they were away the two weeks before their home bye.

Clifton had a home game on 2nd February, with the weeks off during the 6 nations and a bye, their next home game was 23rd March.




The fact that Worthing had a bye in the first and last weeks of the season is the stupidity of how the fixtures work. No-one has been able to tell me why this is - personally I would have weeks 1-15 then reverse those fixtures for weeks 16-30.

The other anomalies you mention, are again the fault of those who do the fixtures.

It isn't difficult to do fixtures so not sure why it appears to be so?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2020 at 23:50
Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Am I correct to believe that these bonds are due to pay £6.50 a year in interest and then in 2 years the club is due to repay the full £100, but the market price is £40.   So the market is essentially saying it thinks Wasps is as likely as to  default as to pay up.


At £40 the market is saying that they will not be paying their bond back at par and a restructuring (a partial default) is probably inevitable.
There have been quite a few trades, and the value has been well below 40 quid before now.
There is regular speculation that Sisu (owners of CCFC) have been buying.
That could be fun, especially if their plans for a new stadium at the University of Warwick proves to be just a ruse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlangentThrowback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 08:55
Whilst there's a certain amusement value if Sisu were buying bonds I don't think the volume of trading has been sufficient to give them any real control over the process.  Certainly when the repayments were 'restructured' there was overwhelming support for that to happen.  On the other hand I can't see any way that Wasps will be in a position to redeem the bonds in just 2 years time.  Yes they (until C-19) managed to increase revenues but also massively increased costs.  The most likely thing is yet another debt restructuring but it is also possible that the bondholders could enforce a sale of assets.  And the only real one is the stadium.  Its value would appear to cover the debt but would it really?  What's the market actually like for sports stadiums with cracks in them in the Midlands of England?  I imagine the range of possible buyers is quite restricted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 09:00
The bye weeks are the week you would play the missing team. 

So one has to be a home game,so at best you will be home, away, bye, away, home  three weeks without a home game.If any weeks do not have fixtures, the gap is longer.

However, every side has to have two home and two away games in succession,as otherwise you cannot played the sides who were in phase with you on the first week.  So some clubs will hit the bye before or after their two away games.

I am not quite sure why we play the games in the order we do. There is no need for the order in the second half to match that in the first. They could be shuffled. But someone will have a bye in week one and in the final week. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 09:09
I should also point out that the examples I gave the bye weeks were of course caused by Rugby pulling out late. had the organisers known in advance that there would be bye weeks, they could have shuffled the order to ensure that the team with the bye in between the two weeks off (Clifton)  were having an away match and were therefore at home one of the weeks either side.

But the fundamentals do not change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 10:48
Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

Whilst there's a certain amusement value if Sisu were buying bonds I don't think the volume of trading has been sufficient to give them any real control over the process.  Certainly when the repayments were 'restructured' there was overwhelming support for that to happen.  On the other hand I can't see any way that Wasps will be in a position to redeem the bonds in just 2 years time.  Yes they (until C-19) managed to increase revenues but also massively increased costs.  The most likely thing is yet another debt restructuring but it is also possible that the bondholders could enforce a sale of assets.  And the only real one is the stadium.  Its value would appear to cover the debt but would it really?  What's the market actually like for sports stadiums with cracks in them in the Midlands of England?  I imagine the range of possible buyers is quite restricted.
Agreed, but could be interesting if they make a concerted effort.
Best bet would be to knock the thing down and extend the shopping centre all the way up to the Beduth border. Proper competition for Fosse Park Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlangentThrowback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 11:57
The only time I've been to the Ricoh the far end of the shopping centre looked almost over the horizon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 14:03
Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

The only time I've been to the Ricoh the far end of the shopping centre looked almost over the horizon
Were you lying on the ground? It really is quite small apart from one of the biggest Tescos around. You could probably fit about six in Fosse Park.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 15:26
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

The only time I've been to the Ricoh the far end of the shopping centre looked almost over the horizon
Were you lying on the ground? It really is quite small apart from one of the biggest Tescos around. You could probably fit about six in Fosse Park.

Apart from the Tesco it's a pretty poor excuse of a retail park...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 17:36
Originally posted by Rob C Rob C wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

The only time I've been to the Ricoh the far end of the shopping centre looked almost over the horizon
Were you lying on the ground? It really is quite small apart from one of the biggest Tescos around. You could probably fit about six in Fosse Park.

Apart from the Tesco it's a pretty poor excuse of a retail park...
Quite. But enough of crappy shops now 😉
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 19:08
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

I’m not too sure that I would take advice from Ealing on how to increase crowds.

The Ealing  Trailfinders home  crowd is steadily growing it is the visiting crowd that are visibly smaller........I wonder why!
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 22:24
Let's keep on topic... 
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